DCB Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 I can't see any value in the bottom right siding, too short and close to the edge I would have thought. The point made by Keith about control is really more a DCC thing than DC. You can plug a DC controller into a Stereo jack plug or six anywhere on the layout and watch and operate from anywhere on the layout. You can do the same with DCC controlling from your phone but most folk don't and end up with something like mission control from the Thunderbirds TV program of the 1960. It needs thinking about or you will get a lot of exercise and or fed up walking around the layout incessantly. For getting something running those cheap OO battery locos which come in sets with a circle of track and couple of wagons for £5 are great, the locos pull a couple of full length coaches and are great for testing clearances and making sure the stock runs through the pointwork before you get too much ballast down. If I had the cash I would go Radio Control.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold jamest Posted November 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2020 Starter layout Hi, See link above (hopefully it works). Way back I dipped my foot back into model railways with a layout the same size as yours - it does not have a island platform - but utilises curved set-track points and code 100 track. I also wanted one half scenic and one half for storage. It obviously stretches reality a bit - but provided hours of fun - building and operating. It might provide you with some useful information. all the best, James 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffingbilly51 Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 James, thank you for your post which I've just found. I'm going to have a good look at your blog and will get back to you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffingbilly51 Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 Hi James, have just spent an interesting hour or two looking at your layout. I have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed reading its history and the progress you have made. Your scenic work is fantastic and I only hope that when I get to this stage my efforts can emulate your standards. I have found it truly inspirational and it really has spurred me on to progress with my own layout. Regards, Bill 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold jamest Posted November 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2020 On 20/11/2020 at 11:29, puffingbilly51 said: Hi James, have just spent an interesting hour or two looking at your layout. I have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed reading its history and the progress you have made. Your scenic work is fantastic and I only hope that when I get to this stage my efforts can emulate your standards. I have found it truly inspirational and it really has spurred me on to progress with my own layout. Regards, Bill Hi Bill, Thanks for that, much appreciated, there is something about a roundie! Although I've not done one since! I'm glad it has provided you with some ideas and inspiration....I look forward to seeing your efforts. All the best, James 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffingbilly51 Posted April 7, 2021 Author Share Posted April 7, 2021 Hi folks, not been on for a while. The original layout has changed somewhat and revised from 6x4 to 5x4, (2, 5x2). Boards are now finished and now I'm in unknown territory. Track has been purchased, 00 Peco Setrack code 100, points are streamline live frog. Loop on far left will be where island platform is. Boards are portable and will be stored under bed. One train in operation, although I envisage one train could be in station, isolated, while another train could use opposite platform. Want to go DC for operation. Do not have a Scooby Doo as regards wiring up. Now the questions. Do I start laying track now, or wire up and lay track as I go? Not sure where to put isolating and conductive rail joiners. I'm aware of droppers from rails to bus wires, do I have to wire up each piece of rail seperately? Want a good transformer and controller, advise please. Obviously I have four tracks that will be split when taken apart. I've heard of copper sheet and copper sleepers to be used here, again advise would be very welcome. Points, I'll just keep it simple at the moment and be manually operated. I commit myself into your arms! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chimer Posted April 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2021 (edited) As a minimum: You need track feeds at the red arrows, noting you will need switches in the feeds to the platform loops so you can isolate a train in one while running a second train through the other. You need IRJs at the black lines as follows: At A, on both point frog rails; At B, on the frog rail for the platform loop, not the siding (but see below); At C, on both rails making the crossover. The point is power must not reach an electrofrog via either of the converging frog rails. You can add as many more feeds as you like, but note if you feed the sidings you will need IRJs on the siding frog rails in both cases, and switches in the siding feeds if you want to isolate locos / MUs in the sidings. In my opinion, feeding every track would be total overkill for this type of layout - others will disagree violently. If you're going to be soldering the track feeds, it's much more easily done before laying the track. If you're going to use the push-in connectors, it doesn't really matter. Hope this helps .... Edited April 8, 2021 by Chimer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffingbilly51 Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 Thanks Chimer for a very informative answer. Both sidings I would also like to feed, so will follow your advice and isolate also. Therefore keeping feeds at a total of five and leave it at that. Will solder track feeds as I progress track laying. As I shall be using one train in operation and five feeds to rail, will I get away with one transformer and one controller? Looking for recommendation for these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted April 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2021 More feeds will be needed, @Chimer, because there is a break across all rails where the boards separate. Ideally, these would just be jumpers across the board gaps, which will preserve power switching of the inner siding via the point at its entrance - otherwise another switch will be needed. For simplicity of operation, it would be nice to route power using the points and avoid additional switches and I think it would be possible using the scheme shown below. All the insulated joints are on both rails and it is assumed that there are jumpers across the board joint. There is just one feed from the controller drawn as a black arrow on the diagram. If it weren't for the siding off the outer loop, that would be all that was needed but because of the siding points, an insulated joint is required as well as an additional feed to the loop. If this feed is supplied not directly from the controller but from the rails at the frog end of the loop point (red dot on the diagram), it will preserve the switching action of that point. The only oddity is that the points will need to be set for the loop when shunting the siding, but this should not be a problem on a one-controller DC layout as you would want to isolate any loco on the inner loop anyway. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chimer Posted April 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2021 (edited) @Flying Pig Conceded, after a long dose of looking at - apart from the crossover down the bottom accessing the siding, it's electrically just a single track with a fan of sidings at each end. Perhaps more easily seen that way if you put the IRJs in the middle of the platform loop lines rather than against the top point. Taking a jump feed to the outer loop from the track in the middle of the crossover is very cute - it took a long time to get my brain round that. Edited April 8, 2021 by Chimer 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted April 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, Chimer said: Taking a jump feed to the outer loop from the track in the middle of the crossover is very cute - it took a long time to get my brain round that. Thanks - I used to play a lot with that sort of idea in plans for not-quite-built layouts. It reduces the opportunity for operator error though it isn't entirely foolproof in this case. Apart from the gotcha already mentioned, because the other loop point doesn't do any power routing, it would be easy to forget to set it correctly when starting a clockwise train from the platform. Despite that, iit's better seen as a single fan of sidings with the upper point not routing power. It is tempting to butt two fans back to back, since you could then put another feed from the controller on the top board and forget about jumpers altogether (unless you really needed the far end of the siding live). However, in that case setting the loop points in conflicting directions would lead to a polarity change in the middle of a platform and a short as soon as a wheelset ran over it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffingbilly51 Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 Well thanks guys, but apart from slapping each other on the back, I'm no further forward, indeed, more confused! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted April 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2021 49 minutes ago, puffingbilly51 said: Well thanks guys, but apart from slapping each other on the back, I'm no further forward, indeed, more confused! Ok, in the scheme that @Chimer posted the layout is divided up into a number of electrically isolated sections by insulated joiners. Each section has its own power feed from the controller via an on-off switch. When setting a route and selecting a train to run, you need to make sure that the correct switches are turned on and off as well as moving the points. My suggestion was to wire the layout so that the points themselves switch the power and there are no additional switches to operate. You might find this an easier way to operate or not, depending on your preference. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffingbilly51 Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 Yes, like the signalman setting the route, that I can understand. This I can follow and the way I'll go down. I like your idea of switching the points to direct the power and having isolated sections. I thought there was only a right or wrong way to wire a layout! One size fits all! Silly last question, when isolating a track or section, do you use isolating joiners on both rails or is it just one with a metal joiner opposite? Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chimer Posted April 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 10, 2021 I thought I'd leave it to @Flying Pig to reply as you're tending to follow his idea - but time is passing ..... If I'm interpreting his idea accurately, it doesn't involve sections at all. It relies on the self-isolating nature of the points to allow you to have 3 locos on the layout, with just 1 responding to your controller at any time. The wiring involves just two wires from the controller to the track by the black arrow, and one more wire from the inner rail by FP's red dot to the inner rail by the red arrow. And you need 3 IRJs, 2 on the frog rails of the top point and 1 on the frog rail of the SL-87 at the bottom which leads to the crossover, not the one which leads to the siding. I could draw more detailed pictures if the words don't make sense ..... So your last question doesn't really apply, as there are no sections in FP's solution. But if you were to use sections, it's not a silly question because there's no simple "correct" answer. Personally, I would use IRJs on both rails and double pole switches to control the power. But it is equally possible to have the section breaks on one rail only (as long as it's the same rail all the time), with single pole switches controlling the feeds and a "common return" from the other rail which goes straight back to the controller bypassing the switches. And you would probably still need to use some IRJs on the "common" rail to protect the live frogs. The other classic use of a break in one rail only is to enable a loco to be isolated at the buffer end of a siding. Any use? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffingbilly51 Posted April 10, 2021 Author Share Posted April 10, 2021 (edited) It is indeed very useful, thanks again Chimer and also Flying Pig. I had also been on Facebook also asking same questions and getting different answers, result totally confused. Your advise is much appreciated. Don't wish to sound like I want to be spoon fed but could I impose on you for a wiring diagram? Your explanation is very clear and I'm getting there, the diagram would just clarify any doubts. Edited April 10, 2021 by puffingbilly51 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted April 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 10, 2021 On 08/04/2021 at 20:26, puffingbilly51 said: Yes, like the signalman setting the route, that I can understand. This I can follow and the way I'll go down. I like your idea of switching the points to direct the power and having isolated sections. I thought there was only a right or wrong way to wire a layout! One size fits all! Silly last question, when isolating a track or section, do you use isolating joiners on both rails or is it just one with a metal joiner opposite? Thanks again. Sorry, missed this. In my diagram, I intended all the breaks (what @Chimer calls IRJs) to have insulated joiners on both rails. By the way, I think this slightly simpler scheme would work, with only two insulated breaks (both rails again) and without the secondary feed. In this case, you select power to the platform loops using the top point. You still need to connect power across the board joint though, where I've put red dots this time. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffingbilly51 Posted April 10, 2021 Author Share Posted April 10, 2021 Brilliant, thanks, would I also need a power connection on right hand rail opposite three left hand rails of board joint? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted April 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 10, 2021 I added a second feed on the upper board (black arrow) so it's only the sections switched by points (platform loops and siding) that need connecting across the joint. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffingbilly51 Posted April 10, 2021 Author Share Posted April 10, 2021 Thanks once again for your advice. Thought I would show you progress to date, well up to yesterday. I have since fitted tops to frame using 2, 5ft x 2ft 9mm birch ply. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chimer Posted April 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 10, 2021 (edited) A nagging thought - as FP is insisting you need electrical connections across the baseboard joint, I assume he assumes (!!) you're going to cut through the set-track curves along the line of the joint. Have you planned for this, and the track alignment issues that may follow? On the outer loop at least, the cut will be very close to the end of a track. The alternative approach of having bits of track sticking out over the ends of the boards when they're apart might work, given the slop provided by the fishplates, but you'd probably need four pairs of hands to get all the fishplates connected when you put it together again, especially as the tracks don't cross the joint at right angles. Sorry to be so cautious, but if you hadn't thought of it ........ Nice work on the boards, by the way. Edited April 10, 2021 by Chimer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffingbilly51 Posted April 10, 2021 Author Share Posted April 10, 2021 (edited) Thanks Chimer was aware of this, although as you say outer line on left is near the join. I have some lengths of flexi, so maybe replace the two set-track pieces with one flexi piece. Was going to use either copper sheet or copper sleepers for joins across board joins as layout will be very portable, (my bed underneath)! I'm aware that its preferable to have straight track across board joints but I'd really like to keep sweeping curves through station on left. Not too sure which way to go with this, again advice would be most welcome. I've included another view of frames connected, have used brass male and female dowels, as well as tension braces on each end. Edited April 10, 2021 by puffingbilly51 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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