Class 121 DTS (Class 149?)

[Wagonmaster]

On 02/10/2020 at 00:17, dibber25 said:

I think we've only got GWR No. 18 to do and every single-unit diesel railcar that operated for BR has been done in ready-to-run 'OO'. Two- and three-car sets are much less well covered because they are not 'dead certs' for good sales in the same way that single cars are. With the DTS, there are choices which further complicate matters. The single car has standard tension-locks both ends, so immediately you have a question mark over how you provide directional lighting in the trailer car or DCC with one decoder. If you re-make the DMBS with the multi-pin plug coupling, those who only run it as a single car will have an ugly redundant coupling at one end and you've got tooling and assembly revisions to the single car. We can, of course, do as BR often did and run two single cars coupled together if we really want a two-car set. I also wonder just how accurate the TC chassis would be for the DTS, bearing in mind that one has a toilet and the other doesn't - were there other differences aside from the toilet pipework? (CJL)

 

How about the Derby Lightweights that were used on the Banbury Merton Street to Buckingham line? DC Kits did do a kit a while back, but that's not really RTR.

[Zunnan]

15 hours ago, Wagpnmaster said:

 

How about the Derby Lightweights that were used on the Banbury Merton Street to Buckingham line? DC Kits did do a kit a while back, but that's not really RTR.

 

That has been a quiet question I've been wondering since the Lightweight models arrived. The big question though is which one? They were both quite different, and I'd always side with 79900 over 79901 for Test Car Iris, given the generally higher interest in departmental models as well as vehicles that survived to preservation.

 

On a side note, both can be done using a LMR 2 car set in much the same way as we used to make 121s from Lima 117s. 901 is by far the easier to do through that avenue as not only is there less chassis work to do than getting a motorised chassis into the unpowered trailer, but there is also more bodywork to do for 900 to provide one of a few different iterations of guards accommodation. Plus whichever one you did, they leave that huge metal weight very visible in the second cab. Had a quick look at doing them via this route on more than one occasion, but have chickened out of putting saw to plastic every time so far! One day...

Edited November 17, 2020 by Zunnan
brain fade with unit numbers!

[dibber25]

I've never investigated the story of the two Derby Lightweight singles, although I have done a couple of conversions in the past. It always looked to me as if they had been last minute adaptations of a two-car unit.  (CJL)

[caradoc]

1 hour ago, dibber25 said:

I've never investigated the story of the two Derby Lightweight singles, although I have done a couple of conversions in the past. It always looked to me as if they had been last minute adaptations of a two-car unit.  (CJL)

 

It does seem that way: 'Lightweight DMUs' (Evan Green-Hughes, Ian Allan 2012) suggests that what should have become 2-car set 79182/3 were altered during production to become the single cars 79900/1. With there only being two of them, and not even identical, an RTR model would seem unlikely, sadly. 

 

 

[Wagonmaster]

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

 

It does seem that way: 'Lightweight DMUs' (Evan Green-Hughes, Ian Allan 2012) suggests that what should have become 2-car set 79182/3 were altered during production to become the single cars 79900/1. With there only being two of them, and not even identical, an RTR model would seem unlikely, sadly. 

 

 

 

Yes, I would agree. Two completely different cars running on one obscure line, not a great recipe for a mass produced RTR model. There might be some limited mileage in the one that became Test Car Iris.

 

This is where niche kit makers, such as DC Kits and their version are so valuable to us. Pity they seem to out of stock.

[Zunnan]

3 hours ago, dibber25 said:

I've never investigated the story of the two Derby Lightweight singles, although I have done a couple of conversions in the past. It always looked to me as if they had been last minute adaptations of a two-car unit.  (CJL)

 

They were exactly that. Originally part of an order of units for Greater Manchester they were ordered as a two car unit (79182/83 as noted) before being repurposed for the Buckingham service and subsequently built as single cars.

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/derby-lightweight/single-cars

[dibber25]

Would probably have made more sense to just use a two-car unit on the branch. I winder if the economy of only operating one car ever covered the conversion/construction cost?  Though, no doubt, the use of an already partly built unit would have minimised the construction cost. Begs the question, "Was the Ballater battery car also converted at the same time under similar arrangements?" (CJL)

[Zunnan]

49 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

Begs the question, "Was the Ballater battery car also converted at the same time under similar arrangements?" (CJL)

 

Quite an interesting story around them actually, I'd not really got into it before.

 

https://railcar.co.uk/type/battery-multiple-unit/background

[dj_crisp]

I'm just finishing my 121 DTS project using Bachmann bits n pieces.....

 

Does anyone know what transfers I should include on the back?

 

 

I think it might need an overhead warning flash, a C1 route and a data panel? Although could be that it's all blank like this!

 

 

It's been a fun project and if you're interested here is my attempt;

 

 

Any info on bit's I've got wrong is appreciated !

cheers

Will

 

 

[Roy Langridge]

Whilst not showing the rear of a DTS, there are some photos of the inner ends of non-gangway DMU vehicles in Modern Locomotives Illustrated vol 207. 
 

They show warning flashes, C1 codes, a data panel and something under the data panel, but I can’t quite work out what. All on the left-hand side. 
 

Edit: and here is a shot of the rear of your very own 54281 (not mine).
 

Hope that helps,

 

Roy

Edited September 10, 2023 by Roy Langridge

[dj_crisp]

8 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

Whilst not showing the rear of a DTS, there are some photos of the inner ends of non-gangway DMU vehicles in Modern Locomotives Illustrated vol 207. 
 

They show warning flashes, C1 codes, a data panel and something under the data panel, but I can’t quite work out what. All on the left-hand side. 
 

Edit: and here is a shot of the rear of your very own 54281 (not mine).
 

Hope that helps,

 

Roy

 

Hi Roy

That's brilliant.... thanks for the help and finding a perfect shot of 54281! I must spend as much time on railcar as any other site but somehow missed this one. Will have a go at replicating as soon as I have data panels on order from railtech

 

Cheers

Will

[brushman47544]

The information under the data panel will probably be the shopping or lifting date, SP MM.YY and perhaps the location under that.

[Halvarras]

The only photo I ever managed to take of a Class 121 DMBS + DTS combo, W55027 + W56281, working the Slough - Windsor branch on 6th March 1976. I was in the area accompanying somebody who knew MTK's Colin Massingham and we visited him in his workshop which was in this vicinity (can't recall exactly where now but very nearby IIRC). 08109 on duty on the right. Having built one of his Class 119 kits in 1974/5 I bought a Class 121 DMBS/DTS kit to go with it but never built it as Lima undermined the need.........

 

Back in the summer of 1966 when I first became interested in railways I travelled the St Erth - St Ives branch on board a Class 122 DMBS + DTS combo, W55015 + W56298. Both vehicles were still in green livery of course - W55015 would shortly be repainted into BSY livery and after a little more use in the south west (including introducing BR Blue to Padstow in mid-December 1966, weeks before the branch closed - unless it was W55000, but one of the pair did) it was sent to Scotland where in April 1968 it was converted into a parcels unit, never to carry fare-paying passengers again. Although I don't recall ever seeing DTS vehicles in Cornwall again myself I believe Class 121 W56283 was briefly spotted in the far south west in 1974.

 

 

 

[MidlandRed]

I saw W56289 parked in the sidings at St Erth during the summer of 1966 (green livery) - presumably there as available strengthening if required - the branch was being run by a 3 car ex South Wales class 116 set from batch 3 at the time. I have the car numbers somewhere! 

 

W55015 was recorded in Railway Magazine early in 1967 as operating the Looe branch (referred to it as the Looe branch car, in blue livery). There is a photo of an unidentified blue SYP car on the Looe branch in the RCTS photo archive also, I presumed was 55015. 

 

Interestingly W55000 went to Scotland some time before the others along with the railbuses - presumably displaced when the Bodmin/Padstow etc lines closed. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by MidlandRed

[lazythread]

After the gangway was added, 54287 was paired with Metro-Cammell class 101 DMBC 53155 to form unit L211. I rode on it a couple of times on the Marlow branch around 1990. 53155 was unique as the only Class 101 brake to gain a first class section.

Edited September 16, 2023 by lazythread
Typo in number

[dj_crisp]

Thanks for all of the prototype info... im finding it all really interesting!

 

Cheers 

Will

[Halvarras]

On Friday I mentioned having once bought an MTK kit for Class 121 DMBS + DTS but Lima got in the way! In 1991 I created DMBS W55029 in green and DTS W56280 in blue syp from Lima Class 117 models, the former I used to see in Cornwall in the late 1960s but the latter was never a Cornish unit (AFAIK) and the livery was copied from a photo in the 1969 Ian Allan combined volume. Unfortunately I'd forgotten (if I'd ever noticed) that the bufferbeams on Bsyp units were red, and it would be many years before colour images would come my way showing this, so rather belatedly this still needs correcting. When I get around to it I'm going to use BR crimson rather than signal red or bufferbeam red (too orange in my view) as units in this scheme always seemed to have duller red 'beams that normal green stock, even when clean.

The model was built on the TC underframe of course and I found it necessary to replace all of the steps except those on each corner in order to get them lined up with the doors. The TC also had only one central body securing screw so the donor DMBS needed both internal stems removing and one repositioned centrally (I obtained this from another model with a section of roof still attached which was smoothed off for secure glued attachment inside the DTS - the stem then needed shortening slightly). Having finished it I decided this conversion was probably not one I'd want to do again!

These two vehicles, and the other five which constitute my Lima DMU fleet (118 3-car, 122 single and another 121 unpowered single) were prepared for SEF Flushglaze but I never got around to that either, or painting the interiors or fitting the windscreen wipers they were drilled to take. I suspect it'll never happen now.......

Bit of a story about the nearest cab end on the green 'un - I needed a spare 117 DMS to create a 121 and when I spotted an unpowered boxed one on a stand at a Bristol show - presumably 1990/91 - at a good price I snapped it up, although I couldn't help noticing the rather shifty look I got from the trader. When I got it home I found out why - it had clearly been left in the sun for an extended period, the thing was banana-shaped and the other side a bit 'wavy'. A good job then that I only needed it for the cab end! However the bent bodyshell eventually yielded a good number of door hinges and grabrails too, and the curved chassis gave up its engine detail and bogie pivots for other purposes, so I suppose it got sold to the right person in the end.

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Halvarras
Remembered what else I robbed off the bent one

[andyman7]

On 15/09/2023 at 14:42, Halvarras said:

The only photo I ever managed to take of a Class 121 DMBS + DTS combo, W55027 + W56281, working the Slough - Windsor branch on 6th March 1976. I was in the area accompanying somebody who knew MTK's Colin Massingham and we visited him in his workshop which was in this vicinity (can't recall exactly where now but very nearby IIRC). 08109 on duty on the right. Having built one of his Class 119 kits in 1974/5 I bought a Class 121 DMBS/DTS kit to go with it but never built it as Lima undermined the need.........

 

Back in the summer of 1966 when I first became interested in railways I travelled the St Erth - St Ives branch on board a Class 122 DMBS + DTS combo, W55015 + W56298. Both vehicles were still in green livery of course - W55015 would shortly be repainted into BSY livery and after a little more use in the south west (including introducing BR Blue to Padstow in mid-December 1966, weeks before the branch closed - unless it was W55000, but one of the pair did) it was sent to Scotland where in April 1968 it was converted into a parcels unit, never to carry fare-paying passengers again. Although I don't recall ever seeing DTS vehicles in Cornwall again myself I believe Class 121 W56283 was briefly spotted in the far south west in 1974.

 

 

 

If the early MTK boxes are to be believed it was 33 Stoke Road... 

[Halvarras]

33 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

If the early MTK boxes are to be believed it was 33 Stoke Road... 

Good point!