Brighton belle

[Oldddudders]

13 minutes ago, bécasse said:

The Pullman Car company provided the catering staff for ALL trains with such facilities on the Southern's Central and Eastern (and possibly Western) Divisions, 

I think they were Districts in those days, indeed, in BR days right up until the Divisions were "created" in 1961 or 62. And even a decade later, as I've posted before, the chap ringing Control in the small hours seeking the disposition of Big and Bep units on Central for start of service each morning would introduce himself as "Pullman Car, Brighton". Old loyalties.

[Siberian Snooper]

I remember being on Three Bridges station awaiting a train to Horsham and seeing the Belle thundering through and it swaying all over the place, I was looking forward to the day I had a job and could afford to have a trip, sadly they axed it a few months before that day. 

 

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

19 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I remember being on Three Bridges station awaiting a train to Horsham and seeing the Belle thundering through and it swaying all over the place, I was looking forward to the day I had a job and could afford to have a trip, sadly they axed it a few months before that day. 

 

 

I was lucky enough to do a trip on the last day. I can confirm the reputation for poor riding. Coffee did not stay in the cup.

[roythebus]

As for fitting new frames in the 1960s, it wasn't that simple. The only frames being built at that time were the last of the Mk1 s and they were a different length to the Pullman cars and Mk2 stock which didn't have underframes.

 

It would have made no business sense at all to refurbish or redesign something with a very limited appeal. It's not simply fitting new frames. The modern project involves an awful lot of re-modelling of the end vestibules to incorporate the latest crash-worthiness features, completely re-wiring the coaches, toilets, everything.

 

Certian heritage stock can retain original features such as toilets that flush onto the track providing they've continually "been in service". Stock that has been out of service for a certain period and is rebuilt such as the present BEL project, is being treated as new build stock and must comply to a lot of the modern features.

 

Hence something like the SECR Birdcage Brake on the KESR has to have the restored original toilet locked out of use as it deposits onto the track. It has been out of service for over 20 years and it treated as new build or whatever they deem it to be.

[Nearholmer]

Beware thinking Brighton was ever a wholly ‘luxury’ market - the genius of the LBSCR was to work with a Pullman to introduce third class Pullman accommodation, ideal for an occasional treat, especially one involving a ‘dirty weekend’, which was one of the things Brighton was famed for from way back.

 

Its a good destination for a ‘treat’ service, because the distance is short, so quite high utilisation of stock, especially EMUs with no turnaround hassle, and for fares that remain affordable to a broad spectrum of potential punters. The other SR destinations mentioned above are too far out to be cheap enough - the ordinary fare to Bournemouth was probably higher than Pullman and high tea to Brighton.

[Right Away]

35 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

....... the ordinary fare to Bournemouth was probably higher than Pullman and high tea to Brighton.

Yes, and not forgetting those morning kippers.

[Oldddudders]

24 minutes ago, Right Away said:

Yes, and not forgetting those morning kippers.

I took an up Belle trip shortly after the kippers were restored. They weren't great. I think when Deb started work in Essex House, Croydon in 1974, she was shown the entire correspondence about the kippers. A first-world issue if ever there was one. 

[jim.snowdon]

On 24 September 2020 at 18:45, roythebus said:

As for fitting new frames in the 1960s, it wasn't that simple. The only frames being built at that time were the last of the Mk1 s and they were a different length to the Pullman cars and Mk2 stock which didn't have underframes.

 

It would have made no business sense at all to refurbish or redesign something with a very limited appeal. It's not simply fitting new frames. The modern project involves an awful lot of re-modelling of the end vestibules to incorporate the latest crash-worthiness features, completely re-wiring the coaches, toilets, everything.

 

Certian heritage stock can retain original features such as toilets that flush onto the track providing they've continually "been in service". Stock that has been out of service for a certain period and is rebuilt such as the present BEL project, is being treated as new build stock and must comply to a lot of the modern features.

 

Hence something like the SECR Birdcage Brake on the KESR has to have the restored original toilet locked out of use as it deposits onto the track. It has been out of service for over 20 years and it treated as new build or whatever they deem it to be.

The issues with their ride would have been a consequence of the bogie and suspension design, not the design of the underframe. As it is, I have a strong suspicion that the bodies, which were all steel, were substantially integral with the bodies, in which case they could not have simply been changed. Doing something about the bogies was probably feasible, but uneconomic.

 

Jim

[KDG]

On 23/09/2020 at 20:46, nick_bastable said:

VSOE looked terrific as it trundled over the swing bridge at Folkestone Harbour in the early 1980's

 

Nick B

It still does Nick, when I see it trundling over the river bridge in Maidstone on Thursdays, even when hauled by class 67s. Still a few 5 BEL coaches in the consist too.

[roythebus]

The BEL units were of their era. I doubt if there could be any sensible business case for a regular luxury train on a journey time of under an hour. Not even time to serve the soup let alone leave a tip for the waiter.

Let's see the rebuilt BEL out and about on some decent runs. The interior will no doubt capture the luxury of the original despite having modern running gear. But then that's a price to pay for running on a modern railway.

[4630]

There’s been a recent update on the progress of the Brighton Belle project.

 

Details here for anyone interested;

 

Brighton Belle Update - 27th November 2021

[nightstar.train]

3 hours ago, 4630 said:

There’s been a recent update on the progress of the Brighton Belle project.

 

Details here for anyone interested;

 

Brighton Belle Update - 27th November 2021

 Very interesting. Reading between the lines it seems Shirebrook maybe a number of mistakes with the refurbishment of the Belle and that has set the project back considerably. Plus of course Covid. Sounds like things are now back on track though. 

[DY444]

9 hours ago, nightstar.train said:

 Very interesting. Reading between the lines it seems Shirebrook maybe a number of mistakes with the refurbishment of the Belle and that has set the project back considerably. Plus of course Covid. Sounds like things are now back on track though. 

 

I have to say I didn't read it like that.  It is not very well written in my view but I didn't take it as a criticism of Shirebrook.  I took it to mean that they are moving into the first steps of full integration, and that combining a 1930s era body and 1960s era running gear/electrical equipment with present day wiring and safety requirements was very complex and problems were both inevitable and their nature unknowable in advance.

[cctransuk]

6 hours ago, DY444 said:

 

I have to say I didn't read it like that.  It is not very well written in my view but I didn't take it as a criticism of Shirebrook.  I took it to mean that they are moving into the first steps of full integration, and that combining a 1930s era body and 1960s era running gear/electrical equipment with present day wiring and safety requirements was very complex and problems were both inevitable and their nature unknowable in advance.

 

I did pick up criticism of whoever undertook the first attempt at body panel refinishing - that was virtually spelled out without room for misinterpretation, and the photo is self-explicit.

 

CJI.

[Christopher125]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

I did pick up criticism of whoever undertook the first attempt at body panel refinishing - that was virtually spelled out without room for misinterpretation, and the photo is self-explicit.

 

CJI.

 

Wasn't that at Barrow Hill though? 

[cctransuk]

4 hours ago, Christopher125 said:

 

Wasn't that at Barrow Hill though? 

 

Quite possibly - which is why I wrote "whoever".

 

CJI.

Edited December 6, 2021 by cctransuk

[Christopher125]

34 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Quie possibly - which is why I wrote "whoever".

 

CJI.

 

Sorry, quoted the wrong post... 

[Rugd1022]

Found these lurking in my hard drive, thought I'd post them here....