Mystery 4mm loco chassis etch - any ID ideas please?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

43 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Could it be the North London 4-4-0T?

That was one of my first thoughts, but came to the conclusion that it couldn't be on measurement grounds, 8' coupled wheelbase (7' on the etch), 6' connecting rods, (7' on the etch) .

 

This is fun, wonder who will actually land this slippery fish?

[cypherman]

53 minutes ago, Bucket of Steam said:

I'm kind of tempted to try printing the photo onto thick paper, and then cutting out and folding up, and see what it looks like.

That's a really good idea. Would be nice to see it in all it's 3d glory.

[The Johnster]

I think the axle holes with springs are for leading wheels in a rigid chassis, not driving wheels, which suggests an early prototype, with inside frames.  This makes life even more confusing; I’m not helping, am I mummy?  Not wide enough for Pearson 4-2-4T, not broad gauge.  

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Bucket of Steam said:

I'm kind of tempted to try printing the photo onto thick paper, and then cutting out and folding up, and see what it looks like.

 

Sounds a good idea

 

4 hours ago, MarkC said:

Hi John.

 

Thanks for joining in.

 

I have absolutely no idea what it is.

 

Folding the main piece up? That might be a good idea. It does seem to have folk at a loss...

 

Cheers,

Mark

 

Mark

 

Any chance of having a photo of the other side please, just to see if there are any fold lines on the rear of the etch

 

Do we recon the folds are on the outside ?

[MarkC]

11 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Sounds a good idea

 

 

Mark

 

Any chance of having a photo of the other side please, just to see if there are any fold lines on the rear of the etch

 

Do we recon the folds are on the outside ?

Here's the other side - with no etched fold lines.

 

I'll see if I can find some card & print a copy for folding.

 

Thanks all for taking an interest - it's much appreciated.

 

Mark

[hayfield]

On 24/09/2020 at 11:10, MarkC said:

Hello all.

 

The etch seen in the accompanying photo came in an eBay purchase. It's not from the kit I bought, but I'm puzzled as to what it might be for. There are no coupling rods, but there are some connecting rods that look NER style at first glance.

 

Any ideas please?

 

Cheers,

Mark

 

 

Looking at the center spacer, if both sides are folded down, the front part of the splcer has two folds if the front (wide) part was folded up, as the second part is bent down the wide part fits into the flat part , perhaps for sitting a cylinder on. Between the two big drivers are there cutouts to accept a Bulldog or X03 motor.

 

If the bottom left etch is a front bogie whats the middle etch between the bogie and what we think is a tender coupling. Or is the tender coupling  part of the pickups and the holes are to hold the insulator as on the early wills etched chassis ?>

[cctransuk]

3 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

 

Looking at the center spacer, if both sides are folded down, the front part of the splcer has two folds if the front (wide) part was folded up, as the second part is bent down the wide part fits into the flat part , perhaps for sitting a cylinder on. Between the two big drivers are there cutouts to accept a Bulldog or X03 motor.

 

If the bottom left etch is a front bogie whats the middle etch between the bogie and what we think is a tender coupling. Or is the tender coupling  part of the pickups and the holes are to hold the insulator as on the early wills etched chassis ?>

 

I'd agree that it has a standard mount for an X-04 motor; surely it must be a 4-4-0(T) or an 0-4-4(T).

 

John Isherwood.

[cctransuk]

Being an LNER ignoramus - what is the coupled wheelbase of an LNER G5?

 

Google seems unable to help me with that.

 

John Isherwood.

 

Ignore this - it's clearly something with outside cylinders.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by cctransuk

[cypherman]

Hi all again.

Ok to throw something else into the ring. If it is an 0-4-4. Could it be a replacement chassis for a Triang/Hornby M7. But my money is still on an 0-6-2 with a compensated rear driving wheel set. H/D N2 replacement chassis perhaps.

Edited September 25, 2020 by cypherman

[Bucket of Steam]

I'm sure whoever designed the etch had no idea how many hours of entertainment it would provide decades later.

 

 

[EddieB]

Pretty sure it's an 0-4-4T given the dummy springs under the driving wheels, the inclined angle of the upper frame for the motor, beneath which are arches for a trailing bogie.

 

Since the other kit was for an NER prototype, it seems reasonable that this is also for an ex-NER loco - a G5?  

[MarkC]

6 minutes ago, EddieB said:

Pretty sure it's an 0-4-4T given the dummy springs under the driving wheels, the inclined angle of the upper frame for the motor, beneath which are arches for a trailing bogie.

 

Since the other kit was for an NER prototype, it seems reasonable that this is also for an ex-NER loco - a G5?  

Connecting rods on the etch rules out a G5.

[hayfield]

If it were an 0-4-4 t where would the cylinder go ? surely a 4-4-0 loco, but then what about the sub chassis with axle holes and springs 2-6-0 ? or 2-4-0 

[Bucket of Steam]

The way that the main chassis has that carefully sculpted thin cross section at the right hand side suggests to me that this is the front of the engine.  If that part was intended to fit under a cab, or a bunker, I would expect the top edge to be flat.

 

If we assume ( dangerous )  that the buffers are mounted on the centerline of the right hand end of that thin section, and that the buffers are a normal height above rail level, then can we calculate what diameter driving wheels would be required to hold the buffers at normal height. ( of course it's possible that the buffer centerline  is above footplate height, like some Southern engines).

 

A quick visual suggests that would mean very small diameter driving wheels, so probably not a sensible idea.

Edited September 25, 2020 by Bucket of Steam

[£1.38]

I would concur that the driving wheels must be small. Here's a quick sketch showing how 7ft and 5ft 3in wheels compare for the drivers (4mm scale) - bogie wheels are drawn at 3ft 6in. Even allowing for large flanges, large driving wheels don't look right compared with the etched height of the cutouts for the bogie wheels.

Wheelbase is 24mm + 24mm + 27mm, based on the scale in the original photo

 

The diameters I chose were just guesses. If the bogie wheels were slightly bigger and/or set slightly lower then the driving wheels could be a bit bigger - say up to 6ft?

[Bucket of Steam]

That's a useful view.  If you were to draw in a bulldog motor outline fitting into the notches provided for it , it would stick up quite high above rail level, so maybe a largish tank loco or large diameter boiler required to conceal it?

[hayfield]

42 minutes ago, £1.38 said:

I would concur that the driving wheels must be small. Here's a quick sketch showing how 7ft and 5ft 3in wheels compare for the drivers (4mm scale) - bogie wheels are drawn at 3ft 6in. Even allowing for large flanges, large driving wheels don't look right compared with the etched height of the cutouts for the bogie wheels.

Wheelbase is 24mm + 24mm + 27mm, based on the scale in the original photo

 

The diameters I chose were just guesses. If the bogie wheels were slightly bigger and/or set slightly lower then the driving wheels could be a bit bigger - say up to 6ft?

 

 

Where do you think the other etch with springs on ? 4-6-0 or 4-6-0T ?

[cypherman]

Hi all,

Well here is a thought. Perhaps it is a generic etch that could be used for both 0-4-4 and 0-6-2. That's why the last set of drivers were on a separate mounting. Did any kit builders ever do this. Make a chassis etch that could be used on several of their different kits. Though looking at what I think is the base fitting for the rear bogie on the botton left it is only big enough to fit a single wheel. My god this is fun and brain taxing........

Edited September 26, 2020 by cypherman

[Bucket of Steam]

Maybe the etch designer was really bored on day, and thought " I know, I'll put a random selection of chassis parts onto an etch, and then watch the fun when people try to work out what it's for."

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, cypherman said:

Hi all,

Well here is a thought. Perhaps it is a generic etch that could be used for both 0-4-4 and 0-6-2. That's why the last set of drivers were on a separate mounting. Did any kit builders ever do this. Make a chassis etch that could be used on several of their different kits. Though looking at what I think is the base fitting for the rear bogie on the botton left it is only big enough to fit a single wheel. My god this is fun and brain taxing........

 

K's and the predecessor who designed the 42/52/72 xx built a 2-8-0T / 2-8-2T admittedly a brass bar chassis but I have 2 etched kits from another manufacturer where you have to solder a frame extension to both sides. I think also there is a Golden Arrow 009 chassis which has 2 alternative driver combinations. Did not Wills Finecast do a southern tank loco either 0-6-0T or 0-4-2T 

[Tim V]

To me that 'extension' looked like a truck. I'm going to bid Adams Radial Tank. 4-4-2, outside cylinders.

[Steamport Southport]

1 minute ago, Tim V said:

To me that 'extension' looked like a truck. I'm going to bid Adams Radial Tank. 4-4-2, outside cylinders.

 

I did think that at the time. But something put me off. I was thinking that the placement of the motor would be a bit awkward.

 

If so we are probably back to Peter K or Kemilway as they did one.

[garethashenden]

On 25/09/2020 at 08:48, Steamport Southport said:

 

Kemilway and Peter K was another that popped in my mind.

 

Could it be the North London 4-4-0T?

 

 

Jason

 

I have two of those kits, this is definitely something else.

[hayfield]

How about a LNER Atlantic 4-4-2 ?

[billbedford]

It is only 10 mm over the frames. Would that make it narrow gauge - for 3' or 3'6"? 

 

That's assuming it's 4mm scale. 

Edited September 26, 2020 by billbedford