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Llanthorpe - Steelworks Layout Design Advice


JC
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I've been umming and arring and playing around with the track plan for my steelworks for a few weeks now. One problem has been I've been waiting for the Walther's Blast Furnace to come out......it's now been further delayed til end November so I am ditching that plan and replacing it with a coke oven. I have two track plan options and would be grateful for your thoughts. I think I am missing something and that something is an experienced eye to advise. 

 

In summary then the layout consists of a steel mill and coke oven. Shunting will be a variety of steel carrying wagons going to and from the mill as well as torpedo and slag wagons passing along the layout. Additionally I am running coal, iron ore and limestone wagon rakes through the layout. I had wanted to add a tippler unloader as you will see from plan 1.

 

Track Plan 1.

The branch carrying full trains runs along the front of the layout thus showcasing those long rakes. However, the turns in and out of the main branch along the front are very tight. The branch to the mill runs around the back of the layout which I really like as it means a long trip around the back of the layout for the shunters. I wanted to utilise the L-shape more so branched a line out in front of the fiddle yard so I could showcase the iron ore train more and put a break between that branch and the fiddle yard. However, the problem was that the turn into the tippler branch was too tight and didn't look right. It also reduced the size of the fiddle yard considerably, such that it would impede operation. 

 

Track Plan 2. 

A simpler plan as it just uses one bench, taking out the tippler option and increasing size of the fiddle yard. However, I feel that this doesn't make best use of the L-shape. The branch carrying the full trains (and torpedo wagons etc) runs along the back of the layout and disappears behind the mill and into the fiddle yard. This doesn't showcase the rakes as well as 1 but perhaps gives more interest with it partly disappearing behind the coke oven and then behind the mill, so it will appear and disappear at various points. The shunting into and out of the mill is now on the front of the layout.

 

ISSUES

1. I can't seem to become happy with the balance of the track layout.....i.e. amount of operational options whilst maintaining some simplicity

2. I feel that I should be making more of the L-shape as, if I go with Option 2, the whole of that bench becomes the fiddle yard with a large part not useable due to track geometry coming off the 90 degree turn around the back of the mill. The mill is clearly a constraint as it is 80cm long by 30cm wide.

3. Bringing the mill forward and in with Option 2 makes the layout and track operating space smaller.

 

I've added as selection of photos and the two track plans (all photos are of option 2). By all means rip it apart.

 

 

20200924_160125[1].jpg

20200924_160113[1].jpg

20200924_152009[1].jpg

Edited by JC
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The late Allen Downes built a steel works layout some years ago, I reckon it would be great inspiration if you could find it. No doubt someone will be able to steer you to it, whether here or on the interweb somewhere.

I started building one in 7mm a few years ago, it is very much a still a work in progress and not a real representation of a steel works, I'd need a barn to get anywhere near! 

 

Lots of luck mate, Pete.

 

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43 minutes ago, toplink@()1989))(( said:

The late Allen Downes built a steel works layout some years ago, I reckon it would be great inspiration if you could find it. No doubt someone will be able to steer you to it, whether here or on the interweb somewhere.

I started building one in 7mm a few years ago, it is very much a still a work in progress and not a real representation of a steel works, I'd need a barn to get anywhere near! 

 

Lots of luck mate, Pete.

 

Model Rail - October 2003

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7 hours ago, toplink@()1989))(( said:

The late Allen Downes built a steel works layout some years ago, I reckon it would be great inspiration if you could find it. No doubt someone will be able to steer you to it, whether here or on the interweb somewhere.

I started building one in 7mm a few years ago, it is very much a still a work in progress and not a real representation of a steel works, I'd need a barn to get anywhere near! 

 

Lots of luck mate, Pete.

 

 

Thanks Pete. I'm fairly clear on the direction I want it to go in, it's just best utilising the space available whilst not having turns too tight.

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Hi JC,

A couple of images to be going on with, but I have hundreds from Scunthorpe Works, so will happily dig some of the mills out. These were just immediately handy!

 

IU20170210-DSC_2264.jpg.5e01ad3b283b2f12e66598a5dc549f05.jpg

 

IU20170610-DSC_4757.jpg.a28e3aeb45ff7976dbf3f9816ff1603e.jpg

 

Also, one that might help you, this is the exit from the Blast Furnace at Redcar Works (now closed) 

 

20140221-DSC_2420.jpg.cc196568b80cebc6a96cb8fbb790a0a7.jpg

 

Again, I have more close up shots of the mills and blast furnace at Redcar, just need to dig them out of the archive, but happy to do so, if you want to see them.

 

Rich

 

 

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On 25/09/2020 at 18:59, Ruston said:

The coke oven on your plan - is this going to be the Walthers model?

 

Yes, but not the Coke Oven. I;ve got the Coke Retort. I've been waiting months for the coke oven and it is, like the blast furnace being pushed back and back, so I'm not convinced it'll ever arrive, so I found somewhere stocking the Retort and will use that instead.

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On 27/09/2020 at 01:06, MarshLane said:

Hi JC,

If you can hang on until tomorrow, I'll post some shots of Scunthorpe, and the trackwork around the mills that might help you?  

 

Rich

 

Many thanks Mike but I've been round Scunthorpe recently and got lots of shots. How I want it to look isn't really my problem. It's more how I utilise the space I have on my baseboards to the optimum that I can't seem to work out?

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7 minutes ago, JC said:

 

Yes, but not the Coke Oven. I;ve got the Coke Retort. I've been waiting months for the coke oven and it is, like the blast furnace being pushed back and back, so I'm not convinced it'll ever arrive, so I found somewhere stocking the Retort and will use that instead.

I don't understand why you would want a retort in a steelworks.

I had the coke oven in N gauge, which is just a scaled down version of the HO kit. It's very small and very basic. The hopper needs some work to anglicise it, there's no Larry Car or, pusher, or the door-opening thingy. You're better off scratchbuilding the whole lot.

This is mine after I scratchbuilt an extension to it that almost tripled its length. I also had to build a quenching tower from scratch.

S8300955.jpg.c0243a7c8372bec7f206ca922e77f65a.jpg

 

cokeoven1.jpg.34dcc2dbc731f4c94632ad03d54d051e.jpg

 

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13 hours ago, Ruston said:

I don't understand why you would want a retort in a steelworks.

I had the coke oven in N gauge, which is just a scaled down version of the HO kit. It's very small and very basic. The hopper needs some work to anglicise it, there's no Larry Car or, pusher, or the door-opening thingy. You're better off scratchbuilding the whole lot.

This is mine after I scratchbuilt an extension to it that almost tripled its length. I also had to build a quenching tower from scratch.

S8300955.jpg.c0243a7c8372bec7f206ca922e77f65a.jpg

 

cokeoven1.jpg.34dcc2dbc731f4c94632ad03d54d051e.jpg

 

 

You wouldn't have a retort in a steelworks, but I'm after a representation of a coke oven and if you compare the Walthers retort with the ovens there's not a massive difference in how they look and in my view, having seen the ovens at Scunthorpe, the retort will look fine. I'm compromising.

 

You've been at this a lot longer than me so I would put a fair bit of money that your scratchbuilding is on a different level to mine, which, out of ten, is probably a 1. That said, it might be that I end up doing some kind of change to it once it's up.

 

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1 hour ago, JC said:

 

You wouldn't have a retort in a steelworks, but I'm after a representation of a coke oven and if you compare the Walthers retort with the ovens there's not a massive difference in how they look and in my view, having seen the ovens at Scunthorpe, the retort will look fine. I'm compromising.

 

You've been at this a lot longer than me so I would put a fair bit of money that your scratchbuilding is on a different level to mine, which, out of ten, is probably a 1. That said, it might be that I end up doing some kind of change to it once it's up.

 

I have looked up the Walthers coke retort and it looks to be the same as the coke oven but with a corrugated iron building on top. I guess it's exactly the same if you leave the building off the top of the ovens. I'm sure you'll be able to chop the building and find another use for it.

 

I was confused because of all the British gas works retorts I've seen, none looked anything like that. They do things differently over there and it's why we have to be wary of using yank stuff on British layouts.

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50 minutes ago, Ruston said:

I have looked up the Walthers coke retort and it looks to be the same as the coke oven but with a corrugated iron building on top. I guess it's exactly the same if you leave the building off the top of the ovens. I'm sure you'll be able to chop the building and find another use for it.

 

I was confused because of all the British gas works retorts I've seen, none looked anything like that. They do things differently over there and it's why we have to be wary of using yank stuff on British layouts.

 

Yes exactly.........there's obvs a fair bit of stuff that's interchangeable across the industries. 

 

Hadn't thought about chopping the top bit off, so may have a look at that thanks.

 

In my limited experience, I've found that stuff available and marketed for the UK isn't favourable for your industrial modeller. Too much bucolic scenery/buildings - think it's time the manufacturers started to move on and produce less of the pretty countryside stations and more of the grit. OK it's getting a bit more dingy with the TMD stuff, but there's not a whole lot of "industry". Therefore, unless you scratch build it's a question of going to the HO stuff and then there will need to be compromises.

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As someone who's worked on coking plants, the retort system and steelworks coke ovens are totally different beasts. They may both produce coke, but an A4 Pacific and a class 66 are both locos.

Instead of a coke plant, have you considered replacing it with a power station. All steelworks had their own power station (fed by gas from the coke ovens and or the blast furnaces) and the basic design, whether made of brick, concrete or steel, is a large box with a chimney or two.

I feel it would fit in better with any of your plans and you could include a siding adjacent to the power station with a couple of fuel tanks as heavy fuel oil is also used as a source of power and is usually delivered by rail.

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On 28/09/2020 at 18:00, Ruston said:

I had the coke oven in N gauge, which is just a scaled down version of the HO kit. It's very small and very basic. The hopper needs some work to anglicise it, there's no Larry Car or, pusher, or the door-opening thingy. You're better off scratchbuilding the whole lot.

This is mine after I scratchbuilt an extension to it that almost tripled its length. I also had to build a quenching tower from scratch.

 

Any help ?

431381983_AFCO-DoorLeaksfromboltholes.JPG.984eb9d73ad185a5dbfa2ec049e03562.JPG

Doors with the guide car just on the left.

227050343_AFCO-push1.JPG.ad28dad383b9ca7329fd65838e131301.JPG

Coke car catching a load of hot coke. You can see the wharf that the quenched coke will go down on the left.

 

2104297169_AFCO-Push2.JPG.6fc38f5dbc8284eebfa0d350cb3ea9eb.JPG

Bench (technical name for the bit you walk on / the pusher or guides run on, showing the guide car and the coke car. Those are all Appleby Coke Ovens.

 

1049611672_DLCO-Push.JPG.26b6ae1c95715a69af6004192885e3af.JPG

 

Dawes Lane Coke ovens. Much larger ovens so larger machines etc.

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On 03/10/2020 at 17:23, Busmansholiday said:

As someone who's worked on coking plants, the retort system and steelworks coke ovens are totally different beasts. They may both produce coke, but an A4 Pacific and a class 66 are both locos.

Instead of a coke plant, have you considered replacing it with a power station. All steelworks had their own power station (fed by gas from the coke ovens and or the blast furnaces) and the basic design, whether made of brick, concrete or steel, is a large box with a chimney or two.

I feel it would fit in better with any of your plans and you could include a siding adjacent to the power station with a couple of fuel tanks as heavy fuel oil is also used as a source of power and is usually delivered by rail.

Interesting point thank you.  Yes, I have thought about the power station previously though decided against as I wanted a more steelworks "specific" layout if you see what I mean.  At the moment I'm going with turning the retort into a coke oven so we'll see how that turns out.

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On 28/09/2020 at 18:00, Ruston said:


I had the coke oven in N gauge, which is just a scaled down version of the HO kit. It's very small and very basic. The hopper needs some work to anglicise it, there's no Larry Car or, pusher, or the door-opening thingy. You're better off scratchbuilding the whole lot.

This is mine after I scratchbuilt an extension to it that almost tripled its length. I also had to build a quenching tower from scratch.

S8300955.jpg.c0243a7c8372bec7f206ca922e77f65a.jpg

 

cokeoven1.jpg.34dcc2dbc731f4c94632ad03d54d051e.jpg

 

 

I'm taking your advice and have started to scratch build an extension and quench tower. Lots more detail required yet and the colouring isn't right. Using this photo as reference:

 

image.png.e278b2b06c214905c1a669b7e51ba293.png

 

 

IMG_20201015_174007[1].jpg

IMG_20201015_174114[1].jpg

Edited by JC
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That picture is almost certainly a photo of a painting of Appleby Frodingham Coke Ovens and depicts the plant in the late 1950's or early 1960's. It shows batteries 1 to 4 (1 nearest), there's another brick circular chimney and quencher tower off to the left and the by-products plant is off to the right. My pictures above are the same plant but of the coke side operations, this is the pusher side.

Battery 1 was closed in the mid 70's and Batteries 5 & 6 (to the left of where this view is taken from) were demolished in the early 80's. All the four remaining batteries were demolished down to the bench level and rebuilt from 1984 to 1990, a third pusher and a guide car was transfered from 5 & 6 batteries prior to demolition. All the batteries have 33 ovens in each of them. The charging car on the battery top survived a lot longer, new automated ones were fitted in the early 90's. 

I spent too many hours on that plant but you do get a good view from the top of the coal bunker (the big concrete thing in the middle).

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2 hours ago, Busmansholiday said:

That picture is almost certainly a photo of a painting of Appleby Frodingham Coke Ovens and depicts the plant in the late 1950's or early 1960's. It shows batteries 1 to 4 (1 nearest), there's another brick circular chimney and quencher tower off to the left and the by-products plant is off to the right. My pictures above are the same plant but of the coke side operations, this is the pusher side.

Battery 1 was closed in the mid 70's and Batteries 5 & 6 (to the left of where this view is taken from) were demolished in the early 80's. All the four remaining batteries were demolished down to the bench level and rebuilt from 1984 to 1990, a third pusher and a guide car was transfered from 5 & 6 batteries prior to demolition. All the batteries have 33 ovens in each of them. The charging car on the battery top survived a lot longer, new automated ones were fitted in the early 90's. 

I spent too many hours on that plant but you do get a good view from the top of the coal bunker (the big concrete thing in the middle).

Yes it is.....and thanks for the further detail. I only wish I could find/mix that concrete colour ?

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It's just plain old concrete in real life, I think that's just "artistic licence" to make it seem like a nice place to work. It will weather due to the emissions from the battery tops so will be a bit 'dirty' on the lower parts so don't worry about the colour. Not sure I've many pictures of the plant as a lot of it is EX zoned so all equipment had to be intrinsically safe including cameras and mobile phones were totally banned on site.

At the far (coke) side there were many sidings years ago as wagons were used for collecting undersize coke, the useable coke and various other bits and bobs. There was also the facilities for unloading coke (generally bottom discharging hoppers) that came in from other plants  These were removed in the late 80's and early 90's being replaced by mechanical shovels and lorries 

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5 hours ago, JC said:

Yes it is.....and thanks for the further detail. I only wish I could find/mix that concrete colour

Have a look at Google Earth View, you'll see it's just concrete.

I've had a look through my pictures and I've none that can really help, unless you want a close up of the ascension pipe tops.

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