RMweb Gold D9020 Nimbus Posted October 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2020 It's funny how things change. The Triang standard track looks not unlike modern "ballasted" track such as Kato Unitrack—albeit with much sharper radii. Less unlike than the passage of time would suggest… 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 7 hours ago, Il Grifone said: >snipped Is the ramp of the terminal/uncoupling rail supposed to stay up? There doesn't appear to be any locking mechanism so I assume not. The lever is supposed to latch in the upright position. There is a plastic tongue in the centre of the base, at the lever end of the hole under the ramp, that the lever “clips” into when raised fully. Holding the lever against the return spring. This allows the “operator” to then pull the loco part of the train away from the uncoupled portion. Remember that this ramp was designed to uncouple the MK2, Open Loop, pre tension lock couplings. These have no “return” on the hooks, so it is not necessary to reverse the loco to release the hooks, they just lift straight up... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Sarahagain said: The lever is supposed to latch in the upright position. There is a plastic tongue in the centre of the base, at the lever end of the hole under the ramp, that the lever “clips” into when raised fully. Holding the lever against the return spring. This allows the “operator” to then pull the loco part of the train away from the uncoupled portion. Remember that this ramp was designed to uncouple the MK2, Open Loop, pre tension lock couplings. These have no “return” on the hooks, so it is not necessary to reverse the loco to release the hooks, they just lift straight up... That confirms that most of my uncouplers are worn as some don't even have a spring but still fall back. I will have to experiment with the latter clip in type of uncoupler to see if the lifting ones will stay coupled over the top during movement. As they were iffy to start with uncoupling on their own at times I have been thinking of cutting the square mounting block off and fitting a tension lock. I am not one for being sentimental and preserving originals, I like my trains to work the best they can. It is like I am experimenting using Dublo 3-rail sintered wheels in stock to give better running, so far one coach seems to be working well pushing through pointwork so a test under power soon should confirm it, and no, they do not short out in plastic frames as they are split axle. It does mean they are no good for metal framed bases but I have other ideas for them. Garry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Silverfox17 said: I am not one for being sentimental and preserving originals, I like my trains to work the best they can. It is like I am experimenting using Dublo 3-rail sintered wheels in stock to give better running, so far one coach seems to be working well pushing through pointwork so a test under power soon should confirm it, and no, they do not short out in plastic frames as they are split axle. It does mean they are no good for metal framed bases but I have other ideas for them. Garry How do you insulate the H/D wheels. Have you a secret supply of insulaxles? I tried cutting the axles in half and slipping plastic tubing over them but they wobbled and it was a devil of a job to get the right tube length to give the correct back to back. They also have a rather angular flange profile compared to the H/D plastic wheel sets. I found turning the Triang flanges down in the lathe or drill chuck and adding a small 8ba (6ba?) washer gets them through code 100 points more nicely than the metal H/D while still running on series 3 and grey base track. Trouble is the bogies break if you aren't extremely careful removing the axles. The old wheel and half axle plus spacer also works on pin point axles. I have used Lima wheels in H/D wagon and coach bogies with pin point bearings with the points on the bearings filed off flush so they fit HD axle hangers. Makes a great free running bogie live to one side which is great for lighting pickup, but needs plastic couplings to avoid shorting through the couplings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, DavidCBroad said: How do you insulate the H/D wheels. Have you a secret supply of insulaxles? I tried cutting the axles in half and slipping plastic tubing over them but they wobbled and it was a devil of a job to get the right tube length to give the correct back to back. They also have a rather angular flange profile compared to the H/D plastic wheel sets. I found turning the Triang flanges down in the lathe or drill chuck and adding a small 8ba (6ba?) washer gets them through code 100 points more nicely than the metal H/D while still running on series 3 and grey base track. Trouble is the bogies break if you aren't extremely careful removing the axles. The old wheel and half axle plus spacer also works on pin point axles. I have used Lima wheels in H/D wagon and coach bogies with pin point bearings with the points on the bearings filed off flush so they fit HD axle hangers. Makes a great free running bogie live to one side which is great for lighting pickup, but needs plastic couplings to avoid shorting through the couplings. I have done just what you did cutting the axle in half and fitting onto plastic tube. The tube is a very tight fit and the wheels still run true, better than the plastic ones. I have no idea what the tube is or where I got it but it is perfect. My layout will not have Peco track so no issues turning the wheels down. I have found it impossible to polish the plastic treads up when they have become well worn and therefore do not roll well and can "bounce" up and down. At least with metal wheels a brass wire brush will clean the treads but that will not work on plastic. Dublo whels being nylon just melt and hard plastic gets scratched. People talk of just using a woden stick but that is fine when it is a ring of dirt around a wheel but no good when the dirt is ingrained into the plastic. Garry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) Apparently, to avoid unwanted uncoupling with MK 2 couplings, Tri-ang Railways Trade Fair layouts used a small metal ring around the coupling horizontal bars. I read this somewhere, and on that forum, someone had done this on their railway, with success. The Series 3, and similar Standard Track uncoupling rails have a lever to lock the ramps in the lowered position, to avoid unwanted uncoupling with MK2 Couplings. It is quite possible that the clip in Super 4 (and Series 3) Track uncoupling ramps will affect Mk2 couplings, as they are permanently up, being just spring loaded... Two Mk2 Standard Track uncoupling tracks in this photo...link. https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/triang-standard-track-cross-over-501468376 Tri-ang Railways also had this hand operated uncoupling solution... Pictured is a 1950s Tri-ang Railways R.160 Hand Uncoupler. Edited October 22, 2020 by Sarahagain More added Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sarahagain said: Apparently, to avoid unwanted uncoupling with MK 2 couplings, Tri-ang Railways Trade Fair layouts used a small metal ring around the coupling horizontal bars. I read this somewhere, and on that forum, someone had done this on their railway, with success. I can imagine this will successfully work but obviously will not allow any uncoupling to take place, and each wagon would have to be coupled before it is placed on the track as the open ends are on opposite sides, that is one wagon on the track with ring on bar then hand feed the other bar through and place on the track followed by the next and so on. I know in some circles people with metal Hornby Dublo couplings use tiny neo magnets to keep everything together but again it makes a fixed rake and no shunting. There is not one solution for all for everything you want to do which is why I am thinking of putting Mk3 couplings on everything. Garry Edited October 22, 2020 by Silverfox17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 It might be wear causing the uncoupling ramp to not stay up, but it could be deformation of the ramp itself. What brought up the query in the first place was was that one of the two I have did stay up until I straightened out the ramp, which was higher at one end when raised. Straying a bit off Tri-ang track - some is relevant some less so. It is essential that Dublo/Peco couplings are all the same height* and the knuckle is vertical. Spurious uncoupling is then a rarity. The drop pin needs to be vertical as well for successful uncoupling. The Peco Magni-Simplex is an improvement allowing delayed uncoupling but will not couple with Dublo as the jaw is too narrow for the larger Dublo knuckles. The same criteria apply to Tri-ang couplings (both Mk II and III). Since both hooks have to rise to uncouple, spurious uncoupling can only occur on really rough track or because of stiff couplings that fail to drop properly. In my youth (when one could still buy both makes new...), I used to think this was an advantage. It is, until you wish to uncouple manually. Dublo just lifts off; Tri-ang tangles up or you need the shovel device**. A couple of complete trains taking a nose dive off the board persuaded me of the advantages of almost every other type. * I set to 3/8" (9.5mm) which seems to be the factory setting and is the same as Kadee and Tri-ang. ** Years ago I had one of these (IIRC it cost 6d?). I think it got broken and thrown out. For my small TT branch line terminus (the local shop was selling it off at half price and I couldn't resist...), I modified the coupling by removing a hook from one end which allowed manual uncoupling in the fiddle yard, at the cost of not being able to turn anything around. Insulating Dublo wheels requires either cutting the axle and fitting an insulating sleeve (2mm ID tube is ideal as the Dublo axle is a tad over 2mm diameter) or an insulated bush which requires reaming out one or both of the wheels (as In Nucro/Jackson wheels - once available to HD standards). The Dublo Back to Back should be 14.2mm (a bit of tolerance is permissible). Unfortunately Peco Insulaxles cannot be used without bushing as they are very small in diameter (about 1.8mm - 15 SWG?) (and rather expensive). The sintered iron wheel profile is square and uncompromising - they bought them in and neglected to inform their supplier as to the correct profile. Luckily? the Dublo round-headed rail allowed them to get away with it, but the stock does tend to drag more than it need. Sorry for waffling on. If anyone is still here, that is.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Il Grifone said: Insulating Dublo wheels requires either cutting the axle and fitting an insulating sleeve (2mm ID tube is ideal as the Dublo axle is a tad over 2mm diameter) That is just what I did. The back to back does need to be smaller due to the wider check rail gap though. Garry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 I'll take your word for it Garry. I've never seen a specification for Tri-ang back to back, but wheelsets I've measured seem to 13.8mm. I'll have to dig out a polystyrene point and check that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 12 hours ago, Sarahagain said: Tri-ang Railways also had this hand operated uncoupling solution... Pictured is a 1950s Tri-ang Railways R.160 Hand Uncoupler. I lost mine many, many years ago. It was fine for the day as the tracks were 3 5/8" apart but when they got closer you could not really get to any middle tracks in yards etc. Garry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 12 hours ago, Sarahagain said: Two Mk2 Standard Track uncoupling tracks in this photo...link. https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/triang-standard-track-cross-over-501468376 I have seen drawings of them but never any for sale, I guess this was a while ago? It is a pity they are quite rare. Garry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 Yes, an older sold listing... I will keep my eyes open...just in case. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 Here is a standard Dublo 3-rail wheelset showing how it will hit the frog until it has had its axle cut in half and sleeved with a smaller back to back which works fine. Believe it or not the rails are quite shiny on top. Garry 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted October 26, 2020 Author Share Posted October 26, 2020 With the issues of the standard uncoupling ramp where they cannot be left up allowing a loco to pass over and/or dropping on their own, I have removed two and fitted the Super 4 style ones in their place. This works fine for the Mk3 couplings but not too good with the Mk2 with them not being tension lock. I am looking at removing a few of the Mk2 to replace with the Mk3 which will be fairly easy on most metal framed stock. I may make some converter wagons with a different coupling at each end so if some wagons do not need to be uncoupled they could be fitted with rings on the loops or tiny magnets. Garry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 It is amazing how clean this standard track can be although I have washed most of them they come up very nice. I now have at least a full circle of large and small polystyrene curves all looking like these. I have also just received the large station set which again is in lovely condition, even the transfers on the buildings are intact. The only issue here is one of the canopy supports has broken but should be an easy fix. Looking forward to the station canopies coming, these I never had as a child but did have nearly everything else. Garry 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Very nice and in the 'sensible' brown colour too (not to mention the clip-together version platforms). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BernardTPM said: Very nice and in the 'sensible' brown colour too (not to mention the clip-together version platforms). The clip together platforms was my number one preference as they are supposed to be polystyrene with the plain ends CA. I don't know if there was a crossover with either material for the clip/non clip ends but these looked flat to start with. Thankfully, yes, the brown as opposed to red colour, a bonus was both chimneys were with them too. Garry Edited November 2, 2020 by Silverfox17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) Yes, I suspect the chimney is worth as much as the whole building! I must admit I really like that old small waiting room building. Edited November 2, 2020 by BernardTPM 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) The plain end platform sections were made in poly plastic for about a year, C1956 I think. This was when the buildings were made in red poly plastic as well. All brown buildings, with the exception of the water tower that was made in brown CA plastic, are made from poly plastic. All clip together platform sections are made from poly plastic. There are two shades of the brown poly. The darkest being from the last production, C 1962. Edited November 2, 2020 by Ruffnut Thorston More added... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 (edited) Repro chimneys for Tri-ang buildings are available here under 'Tri-ang' for 95p : (usual disclaimer) http://model-supplies.co.uk/oddments.htm or on eBay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triang-reproduction-brown-plastic-chimney-for-buildings/252585599866?hash=item3acf46637a:g:GmEAAOSwtJZXWpLp&shqty=1&isGTR=1#shId or a real one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triang-small-chimney/284042911241?hash=item422246de09:g:dsMAAOSwlJlfhE1f I must order some. I have several Tri-ang buildings, but only one of them has a chimney! Edited November 3, 2020 by Il Grifone 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 Obviously the 3-rail Dublo wheel conversion will not work with a metal bodied wagon chassis so I dug out a lot of Dublo profiled wheels I had made a long time ago. These are blackened steel and made to take a Bachmann nylon bush which then accepts the Tri-ang axle. By putting the bush from the outside it gives a small insulating "washer" so the wheels do not touch the frame. This one has worked well but I do need to limit the side play with a few washers. This wagon certainly runs very freely even though it is still the plain axle in the frame casting. These wheels were made to fit Bachmann stock but with a coarser size for Dublo and Peco track. Garry 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted November 4, 2020 Author Share Posted November 4, 2020 A Tri-ang R1. With a spare Hornby Dublo (Wrenn) body and a Tri-ang chassis I have modified them slightly to fit each other. The front coupling will need replacing further forward and I have a new chimney cap (whitemetal) on order then it should look well with the Tri-ang 7" SR coaches. The front wheel is very slightly forward but at 100mph will not be noticeable. As the Dublo R1 chassis has a slightly wider B to B this was the easiest option to have one running on Tri-ang track. Garry 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 A Tri-ang chassis will do more than 100mph! I might try that myself; I have spares of both body and chassis. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 I have not seen one of these for a long long time either at toyfairs or shows so really pleased to get this boxed one very cheap for Ebay. It is in very nice condition and a lovely runner. The pantograph seems fastened down and as I wont be having any catenary I am not going to try to pull it up. Garry 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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