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Micro Metal coaches


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I am trying to identify the metal coach kit parts in the attached photographs.   They appear to have been cut out of a sheet of metal which has the legend MICRO-METAL and what looks like a dragon or similar animal logo on the rear.   They are part of the P D Hancock collection so could date back to the 1950's but I think they may be later.  I have as usual tried Google and searching this forum without success.  Any help appreciated.  

Malcolm

50386185311_54cf581a0b_c.jpgIMG_3476 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

50386361347_b11a22b378_c.jpgIMG_3477 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

50386362102_e075ecd44e_c.jpgIMG_3480 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

 

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7 hours ago, dunwurken said:

I am trying to identify the metal coach kit parts in the attached photographs.   They appear to have been cut out of a sheet of metal which has the legend MICRO-METAL and what looks like a dragon or similar animal logo on the rear.   They are part of the P D Hancock collection so could date back to the 1950's but I think they may be later.  I have as usual tried Google and searching this forum without success.  Any help appreciated.  

Malcolm

50386185311_54cf581a0b_c.jpgIMG_3476 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

50386361347_b11a22b378_c.jpgIMG_3477 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

50386362102_e075ecd44e_c.jpgIMG_3480 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

 

Are they etched or has all the raised detail been cut from sheet as well?

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Paul

Not entirely sure.  I am puzzled partly because I think the panelling and windows are etched but would the etching process not remove the finish on the back of the metal as well?  Regret I do not know enough about the etching process to give a definitive answer.  

Malcolm

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Given the pattern on the back, it could be that the sides have only been etched from one side and then the windows milled out. I agree, they could be Charlton sides. The mark on the back of the metal could simply be the supplier of the zinc sheet.

Of course for NBR there's another layer needed to be added to all the lower sides; quite a big job if they need fabricating too.

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5 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Micro-Metalsmiths? There used to be a firm by this name in N Yorks advertising in the model press.

There is a firm of that name in Kirkbymoorside which dates from 1964.  Maybe they did model railway work in the past for some of the cottage industry model railway manufacturers.

Malcolm

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4 hours ago, airnimal said:

What metal are these made from. They look like Zinc which could indicate they were made by Tevor Charlton.

 

 

3 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Given the pattern on the back, it could be that the sides have only been etched from one side and then the windows milled out. I agree, they could be Charlton sides. The mark on the back of the metal could simply be the supplier of the zinc sheet.

Of course for NBR there's another layer needed to be added to all the lower sides; quite a big job if they need fabricating too.

I think we may be getting close to an answer.  PDH had some NBR coaches built for him by D C Lawrence and painted by Larry Goddard which used zinc sides manufactured by Trevor Charlton.  Where these coaches are now I have no idea but they were to different NBR diagrams.

I did not say anything in my first e-mail but my first thoughts were that the metal is zinc.  You will also notice that one of the coach sides has three raised cream coloured lines.  These are actually some form of fine sticky tape or transfer and my thoughts are that it was a start at panelling the lower part of the coach sides.  So are the sides for a set of NB coaches?  Due to covid no access to club room to have a rummage in the Library for an answer.

Malcolm

 

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On 27/09/2020 at 00:40, Paul H Vigor said:

Are they etched or has all the raised detail been cut from sheet as well?

 

I strongly suspect that the printing is etch-resist, applied by the metal suppliers.

 

The brown staining will probably be ferric chloride - which I used to use to etch brass for homemade number and nameplates; (I still have a brown jar of the stuff somewhere in the garage). Letraset was commonly used as the resist on the metal face to be etched.

 

John Isherwood.

Edited by cctransuk
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1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

I strongly suspect that the printing is etch-resist, applied by the metal suppliers.

 

The brown staining will probably be ferric chloride - which I used to use to etch brass for homemade number and nameplates; (I still have a brown jar of the stuff somewhere in the garage). Letraset was commonly used as the resist of the metal face to be etched.

 

John Isherwood.

Hi John,

Can this process be dated? When did modellers start to use etch-resist?

Paul.

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3 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

Judging by the drawings by Iain Smith in Historic Carriage Drawings - LNER & Constituents they are indeed NBR non-corridor coaches.

Brake Third - over 70 built from 1908

Full third - 114 built from 1919

Full first - 36 built from 1907

Nick.    Thank you for that.  I've arranged to get into the club room later this week.  I have feeling there may be a copy of Iain Smith's book in there.

 

Thanks to all of you another item can be properly catalogued in the collection.

 

Malcolm

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35 minutes ago, dunwurken said:

Nick.    Thank you for that.  I've arranged to get into the club room later this week.  I have feeling there may be a copy of Iain Smith's book in there.

 

Thanks to all of you another item can be properly catalogued in the collection.

 

Malcolm

Malcolm, the book you're looking for is David Jenkinson and Nick Campling's 'Historic Carriage Drawings in 4mm Scale'. (It is only the NBR drawings that are by Iain Smith.) I have the book and could send you a scan of the drawings if needed.P_20200928_142016.jpg.dcf2496c91deca3b73b8d3985a251986.jpg

Edited by JeremyC
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On 28/09/2020 at 20:33, Paul H Vigor said:

Hi John,

Can this process be dated? When did modellers start to use etch-resist?

Paul.

The process has been around for quite a while. I was just reading an article in Railway Modeller Vol. 1 No. 3 from Feb/Mar 1950 on the construction of an O-gauge LNWR 'Bloomer' where the author states "Photo-etched name and number plates are of course included. These were made, to my own drawings, by students at a local Technical College as a laboratory execise." 

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On 29/09/2020 at 21:47, 5050 said:

I doubt very much that Micro Metalsmiths ever did anything like this.  Their main interest was USA prototypes from what I remember.

 

 

 

I agree that they are unlikely to be involved with these coach sides but I do not remember any USA prototypes made.  From what I remember they mainly produced small lots of rather esoteric steam locomotives from Central (ish) Europe.  Germany, Austria, Hungary etc..

 

Edit to add:  AFAIK they only produced finished locomotives to the standards at least of Fulgurex, Lemaco etc of the time.

Edited by Andy Hayter
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