Unexpected expansion into O-gauge

[4railsman]

Above my existing 4mm layout, I now have an opportunity to expand into O-gauge. This is by means of a Plank 20cm wide x 4.3metre long resting on twinslot shelving brackets.

The only rolling stock I own is the Dapol 7S-024-003 class 64xx Pannier and the Lionheart LHT-611 BR St.Ives #2 Suburban Coach set which I bought on impulse when it was offered at a very attractive price some months ago and which resulted in my unexpected expansion into O-gauge.

At the moment all I have is 8 metres of C&L Finescale Bullhead flexible track ready to lay, but no points/crossings etc., plus a brand-new Morley O-gauge controller.

 

My dilemma is a) what trackplan to use with the rolling stock I own,

                   and b) whether to have it running on an auto-shuttle basis.

 

Can anyone help me in deciding the best way forward?

 

Thanks

4railsman

[Happy Hippo]

A lot of people are taking the plunge into 7 mm scale, and I don't think you will be disappointed.

 

However, it is addictive, but with the higher prices compared with 4 mm scale, you will soon learn to be more selective with purchases.

 

4.3 metres will give you space for a small terminus, either suburban or rural.  The passenger stock will just shuttle between the platform and the fiddle yard:  You've not got enough space for much more, that pannier and the two coaches will take up approximately 4 feet, so that dictates the length of your traverser or cassettes. Alternatively you could run with just one coach as a single non auto fitted coach which was not uncommon on some little used branches. Keep the other to run as the pair if you visit a bigger line................  This could reduce the length of your fiddle yard!

 

Pointwork off scene just takes up too much space. However, you will get quite a bit of goods shunting in.

 

If you have a workable plan in 4 mm scale, then double the dimensions for 7mm scale.  It should be x 1.75 but that little bit extra makes a big difference.

 

Take a look at Alan's (Westerner) 'A Change of size and direction: Blakeney (Glos).' or much of the earlier stuff by AndyP as well as his 'Seven Mills Sidings' for inspiration.  Others are available.

 

My last bit of advice is 'don't rush'. Time spent in reconnaissance is seldom wasted. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Happy Hippo

[Hal Nail]

Plenty of threads on similar themes.14/15 feet is actually pretty short for 7mm so will be fairly limited but lots of ideas discussed here.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/157620-a-new-plan-lms-brm-blt/

 

 

[4railsman]

3 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Plenty of threads on similar themes.14/15 feet is actually pretty short for 7mm so will be fairly limited

 

My issue is the limited width of 200mm I have available, whereas most of the posts I have seen are enjoying widths of 450mm or more.

 

Whilst 2-tracks could be accomodated, that may look far to cramped, therefore I was wondering what other options might provide a better scenic option. All ideas welcomed.

 

Thanks

4railsman

[Baggies1961]

I was initially inspired by Warspites layout of our parish and that of a layout called Bude Quay which was a single line micro layout diorama both still able to view on RM Web.

I have a Y point left over and a board not quite 4ft so want to try something really basic goods wise and keep it as small ish as possible (he says) . 

[47606odin]

An alternative is you run it as a shuttle between 2 tunnels to hide the reversing of the model, and just have a bit of scenery in between and watch the train running backwards and forwards when you’re in the room through the scenery. No points, just straight track

[Warspite]

17 hours ago, Baggies1961 said:

I was initially inspired by Warspites layout of our parish and that of a layout called Bude Quay which was a single line micro layout diorama both still able to view on RM Web.

I have a Y point left over and a board not quite 4ft so want to try something really basic goods wise and keep it as small ish as possible (he says) . 

 

As Baggies1961 mentioned me, I thought you might be interested in a couple of photos from the layout. I don't have a track plan but I've included an overhead composite photo (the hidden sidings are on the right), There are quite a few other photos on the layout thread (link below). The layout measured 9' 4" by 1' 9" so may be a bit wider than you want but it will give you an idea what can be done in a small space. 

 

Stephen

 

 

[Baggies1961]

Hi Stephen,

Hope you are well, loved your layout here I made my first attempts at modelling buildings in 7mm following your methods with foam board and indeed following that the plunge into the well that is O Gauge.

Best wishes

Julian.

[Nearholmer]

200mm is blooming narrow, so I wonder if the way to make it interesting might be to focus on the infrastructure, in the sense of ‘line through landscape’.

 

Maybe start on one side with cutting to hide train at that side, falling ground transitioning to embankment, under-bridge, pagoda halt, under bridge/culvert with stream, ground rising again with foreground trees behind which train hides at that end ........ that sort of thing.

 

It could become a ‘picture with movement’ if framed fairly tightly.

 

It could even be a terminal halt ....... see thread ‘Halts as Termini’.

 

You might just be able to get a siding in parallel with the main, and if you do that consider putting the siding at the front, maybe with the suggestion of an unloading bank right at the very front.
 

Personally, I’d avoid tunnels as hiding places, because the ground really needs to rise quite high, which implies very steep scenery, which I think could easily look too contrived.

[brossard]

I'm glad to hear I'm not alone in making buildings from foam board.  I've been building Scalescenes kits in 0 gauge using 3.5mm foam board as a substitute for "Heavy card" called for in the kits.  In 0 gauge "Heavy card" is 3.5mm thick and is a devil to cut.

 

I have my main layout which is discussed in the thread below.  However, I am also tackling the Scalescenes Canal Wharf kit which is a "boxfile" layout in 00.  Not sure what you would call it in 0 though.

 

 

Even so, it measures 25" (640mm) x 17" (430mm).

 

John

Edited September 28, 2020 by brossard

[4railsman]

4 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

200mm is blooming narrow, so I wonder if the way to make it interesting might be to focus on the infrastructure, in the sense of ‘line through landscape’.

 

Maybe start on one side with cutting to hide train at that side, falling ground transitioning to embankment, under-bridge, pagoda halt, under bridge/culvert with stream, ground rising again with foreground trees behind which train hides at that end ........ that sort of thing.

 

It could become a ‘picture with movement’ if framed fairly tightly.

 

It could even be a terminal halt ....... see thread ‘Halts as Termini’.

 

You might just be able to get a siding in parallel with the main, and if you do that consider putting the siding at the front, maybe with the suggestion of an unloading bank right at the very front.
 

Personally, I’d avoid tunnels as hiding places, because the ground really needs to rise quite high, which implies very steep scenery, which I think could easily look too contrived.

 

Thanks Nearholmer. Yes, you're quite right about the width being "blooming narrow". The reason for that is that it wasn't planned to have any railway built on it, just a storage shelf for storage of rail related items!  But then, someone couldn't resist a bargain and decided to buy into O-gauge without thinking how he would ever be able to run it within his model railway shed ~ oh dear!!

 

I take on board your suggestions and will carry out more research later tonight, when I'll have more time.

 

Thanks again

4railsman

[GRASinBothell]

I really couldn't see how you could get more than one line into that eight inch width, especially if you want a platform, so I think the suggestion of plain line through scenery is a good one. You could possibly do something like Midford Viaduct, where the GW branch from Limpley Stoke ran under the viaduct (at a sharpish angle to give you more than 8" of track on the lower line). That would give you somewhere to park the second locomotive that you will undoubtedly purchase...

Gordon

[F-UnitMad]

34 minutes ago, GRASinBothell said:

somewhere to park the second locomotive that you will undoubtedly purchase.

What about the third & fourth? Slippery Slope and all that

 

I expect that by the time those locos come along, the OO will be up for sale, and the new O scale layout can take it's place.

[brossard]

 

15 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

I expect that by the time those locos come along, the OO will be up for sale, and the new O scale layout can take it's place.

 

That is certainly what I did more than 4 years ago.  After playing with 0 gauge, 00 seems somehow less than ideal.

 

John

[sidmouth]

I'm afraid I also got seduced by O gauge which my wallet very much regrets. My available space now has 3 rail o gauge, oo gauge and a fledgling o gauge branch line terminus. Having spent on loco's and stock , building budget is very slender !! so my preferred medium has been the humble cereal packet aided by balsa wood  . GWR signal box already created and goods shed currently being built .  Once I have a moments calm I'll post some pictures 

Edited September 28, 2020 by sidmouth

[Nearholmer]

Another option for a 'line through the landscape' would be to go hardcore urban, either on a viaduct, perhaps with lots of interesting occupied arches*, or in a brick-lined cutting. In either case you could still have a halt, maybe one of those truly grim ones from the western suburbs of London - the Staines West Branch had several, ranging from the bad to the awful http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/y/yeoveney/index.shtml

 

*Have a look at this wonderful colour photo of Shepherd's Bush Market in 1961 - occupied arches gone mad. https://flashbak.com/color-photographs-of-london-1961-372363/

 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Nearholmer

[goldfish]

Fourteen foot is not a good size for a shuttle in 0 gauge. I have been running a Terrier and two 4-wheel coaches along roughly the same distance  with a shuttle and it soon loses its charm. Have you considered putting a box file type layout in the middle of the shelf? That would provide a point of interest when the train isn't running, and remove the need hide the train at each end.

 

If you haven't already got a shuttle I would recommend the Block Signalling SS2A with speed control. I have used one extensively to run trains backwards and forwards around a small oval and it has proved absolutely reliable. For light loads it will happily run at 9V. Usual disclaimer.

 

While you are at the planning stage, you might give some thought as to where you are going to put the second shelf. You are going to need it.

[Nearholmer]

I agree that the "picture" has to be very interesting in its own right, with the train simply adding the occasional bit of movement to it

 

If you think of the whole thing as a picture 14ft long by, say, 18" high, framed, I think that will get your mind into a far more creative place with this one than if you think of it as a "layout".

 

Personally I would want to loose the train at each end, because interest-wise its appearance and disappearance becomes the entertaining part of the movement.

 

None of this is new BTW. German toy/clock/musical-box makers were doing the same sort of thing long before tin toy trains and then model railway layouts were invented. They used layers of near-2D scenery (think romanticised Bavarian Alps with the odd picturesque schloss) with near 2D trains running across viaducts over ravines etc, all drven by clockwork, and often with an horrendous tinkly tune. The forerunners of those mega-tacky resin Christmas scenes and Flying Scotsman clocks.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Nearholmer

[4railsman]

2 hours ago, goldfish said:

While you are at the planning stage, you might give some thought as to where you are going to put the second shelf. You are going to need it.

 

Ahh ~ you must have been perched on my shoulder last night when I was in the shed pondering all the suggestions.

 

When I planned the 4mm layout, I fitted twinslot shelving to three walls of the shed to give me plenty of scope for the future. My 4mm layout uses the length and one width of the shed and merely rests on the twinslott brackets so that easy access is always available underneath the layout without layout legs getting in the way (as in past experience). What I was looking at is whether I could possibly have a rising gradient starting on the 200mm wide shelf and curving to the right to get on to a much larger bracket and trackbed fitted to the right-hand side wall of the shed, which is shorter at about 3.2metres max.

 

At the present time, my 4mm layout is in storage as I am busy infilling the gaps between the twinslot uprights so I can fix a background scene for the 4mm layout to rest against. It was whilst I had easy access to the planned O-gauge shelf that started me off seeking members suggestions on trackplans.

 

Noting Nearholmer's mention of height, I am limited as there is another wider shelf immediately above where the O-gauge layout will be situated. This means from trackbed to underside of bracket I have about 290mm at the front reducing to 260mm at the back caused by the shape of the twinslot brackets when fitted in the uprights.

 

4railsman

 

[doilum]

20 hours ago, 4railsman said:

 

Thanks Nearholmer. Yes, you're quite right about the width being "blooming narrow". The reason for that is that it wasn't planned to have any railway built on it, just a storage shelf for storage of rail related items!  But then, someone couldn't resist a bargain and decided to buy into O-gauge without thinking how he would ever be able to run it within his model railway shed ~ oh dear!!

 

I take on board your suggestions and will carry out more research later tonight, when I'll have more time.

 

Thanks again

4railsman

Shelves are like waistlines. They seem to acquire an extra inch or so over the years.  This might allow a decoupage approach to a low relief background. There is a lot to be said for a scenic test track, if only as a background to display your later creations / acquisitions.

[D6775]

This may not be of much use to you but we wanted something of a bit better display board for some of the shows we were doing. So between a couple of use we picked up four of Tim Horns Billy Bookcase baseboards. Its slightly deeper that you're planning (27cm) and about 3m in length but gave us a two track mainline to display, two basic bridge structures at either end it is actually quite plausible. I'm sure you could fairly easily portray a single line  in 20cmwith a half bridge or the like at either end. I've been using it as a phot plank this year and could do with getting the other two boards back at some point.