What locomotive have I just bought (and what can be done with it)??

[LMS Bess]

I'll look into one of those yes. Another bit of kit I should probably have got hold of way back. 

 

Whilst I'm waiting for the soldering iron, I'm doing some external work based on prototype pictures: added some headcode struts, and the sprung top lid part(?) on the safety valve(?) and a whistle. The whistle might be subject to improvement. 

 

Now on the real thing I notice there appears to be a tube issuing from just near the right hand cab window and connecting to ... a something near the front of the boiler, after the water tank. I might try and replicate this with wire (on the model only the end of the tube is molded), but just wanted to check as I can't find a top down view: that tube does come from where I think it does? Or does it pass from cabin front down into tank and out again? 

 

 

 

 

[LMS Bess]

Chaps! We have life. I soldered the connection from the pickup to the choke. It jerked forward when power was applied through track. After rigourously rubbing down the wheels with isopropyl we get smooth reliable movement at higher speed and even some smoothish slower movement. And there's still a load of mess on the wheels to clean further so potentially the function can be improved. 

 

 

[LMS Bess]

Also I've been digging into the huge and amazing thing that is Ashford Railway works. I came across this interesting picture of the Foundry (at right, the buildings in background are the erecting shops). 

 

Now, do my eyes deceive me or might that make quite a nice microlayout - the siding running up to the Foundry, various things to deliver and pick up in wagons ... there are a few photos online showing the general shape of the building too, if you squint. 

 

Of course it leads me to more questions. It being a foundry, where iron is melted and molded, am I right in thinking they'd want iron ore or scrap iron and coke, going in; and, presumably, wheels going out (unless those in the photo are old ones to be melted - the book I'm looking at it suggests a 'flanging shop' elsewhere in the facility - perhaps wheels are made there instead? Or finished?) 

 

The big pile out front is presumably a slagheap. And I'm trying to figure out those trapdoor type things one level up. 

[PatB]

A foundry, as opposed to a smelter or a steelworks, probably wouldn't deal with iron ore. Iron would more likely arrive in the form of already smelted "pigs", and also as scrap. Of course, foundries often cast metals other than iron, which would, again, arrive as pigs or scrap.

[kevinlms]

14 hours ago, LMS Bess said:

Chaps! We have life. I soldered the connection from the pickup to the choke. It jerked forward when power was applied through track. After rigourously rubbing down the wheels with isopropyl we get smooth reliable movement at higher speed and even some smoothish slower movement. And there's still a load of mess on the wheels to clean further so potentially the function can be improved. 

 

 

Well, you've certainly come a long way from your opening post! No longer a push along toy.

 

I doubt it will ever run, though I'll give it a clean and lubricate and see - what I was thinking was to decog the wheels from the motor and use it as a push-along either for me or some small relatives as a Christmas present (we shall see). Is this at all easy to do without destroying it? 

 

Well done!

[hayfield]

One of the great joys of the hobby is learning new skills, here you have by asking around learnt how to both service a loco and started to learn how to solder. RTR locos and kit built locos of this era can quite easily be bought back to life. The most common problems are dirt on the communicator, wheels and pickups, lack of oil on the motor and wheel bearings and broken electrical connections. Seems you have had the lot, but now you could buy another older loco and breathe new life into it

 

Recently I bought an old k's kit built J72, stated as a non runner but the wheels had been replaced for Romfords, which is why I bought it. On inspection the motor was lifeless, the communicator was filthy and the bearings and shaft dry of oil. After cleaning the Communicator I attached leads to the motor and it squeaked into life, a quick oil and all was running nice and quiet. Surprising what a bit of TLC can do.

 

Anyway are you planning to work on the body ? 

[Il Grifone]

An excess of oil and or grease can attract dust and other muck and (especially grease) dry out and cause the mechanism to seize up or at least run sluggishly.

[LMS Bess]

Ah yes pigs. I was trying to remember what they were called - about six years ago I was thinking about doing a steel mill that never materialised. 

 

I have been doing up the body - pictures will follow. 

 

In the meantime, and in case it's of use to anyone else, here's my caffeine-addled attempt to figure out Ashford (the loco shops/foundry end anyway) using OS maps and MS paint: 

 

 

[LMS Bess]

Here's the picture from book showing what I mean by 'loadsa girders(?)' - presumably iron struts used in loco bodies: 

 

 

[LMS Bess]

And here's where we're up to with the body shell: 

 

 

[LMS Bess]

An insight I found somewhere (I've now lost the page) was that the Forge could produce 'any tool you asked' so I'll assume that one of its roles anyway was making hammers and tongs and saws and so on to be distributed around the works as necessary. Must have taken shipments of coke too for its operation. 

 

The Foundry seems to be surrounded by many wheels in all the pictures I can find of it, so my reckoning is, wheels are made in foundry using moulds (or am I way out here? Must be standardised?), and then probably rolled out on to the forecourt area until needed. Probably sent into the erecting shops using the traverser, and then rolled into place along the rails of whichever bay the wheels were needed in.   

 

The turnplate out front of the foundry is puzzling me. I wonder if it goes something like this picture:

 

 

 

 

[LMS Bess]

Ahh - bit of digging around suggests a higher level doorway at a foundry might be a 'charging door' - materials winched up from a wagon and dropped into the cupola. 

[The Johnster]

Be careful Bess, you are at the top of a slippery and steep slope that will declivitate you into being a modeller.  One of us, one of us....  

 

Seriously, well done on this resuscitation and improvement of an old loco!  You have transformed her into a model which, while perhaps not up to modern hi-fi RTR standards, is an acceptable layout model and should prove to be a good runner.  And you'll always have a special relationship with her, you never forget your first!

[LMS Bess]

Quick question about wiring, as I'm used N scale Kato stuff where it's largely done for you ... If I want to take the two leads from a DC controller and split them into three or more feeds, is it just a case of soldering in extra wires to the + and - leads each or does it need anything else? 

[LMS Bess]

Or to put it another way, how to make own three way splitter? 

[melmerby]

Use something like this:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/16a-terminal-strips-pack-of-10/91532

 

Useful when wiring model railways.

You can always modify your wiring if it need changing in the future (adding boosters, circuit breakers etc.)

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, LMS Bess said:

Quick question about wiring, as I'm used N scale Kato stuff where it's largely done for you ... If I want to take the two leads from a DC controller and split them into three or more feeds, is it just a case of soldering in extra wires to the + and - leads each or does it need anything else? 

 

 

If you are talking about within the loco body and or chassis it needs to be as small and intrusive as possible, for instance instead of soldering one wire to a tab, twist 2 wires together and take the feed off to the next area, and use either heat shrink or insulation tape if needed.

[LMS Bess]

4 hours ago, melmerby said:

Use something like this:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/16a-terminal-strips-pack-of-10/91532

 

Useful when wiring model railways.

You can always modify your wiring if it need changing in the future (adding boosters, circuit breakers etc.)

Ah, okay. So this would work to, for example, put a power feed either side of a set of points? 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, LMS Bess said:

Ah, okay. So this would work to, for example, put a power feed either side of a set of points? 

Exactly

You mentioned Kato N gauge, do you mean this sort of thing?

 

[Il Grifone]

To split feeds just twist the wires together (preferably soldered, but it's not essential and best left until everything works anyway). Screw terminal blocks are an alternative, especially if there is a need to dismantle later (baseboard joints for example).

 

Points should be fed at the toe (the blade end). Any feed downwind will need insulated rail joiners to isolate the sections.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=turnout+toe&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjki-mCqNTsAhU1IMUKHVACDqUQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=turnout+toe&

 

(I had to use the (correct?) term to get the above, otherwise I kept getting a foot fetishist's dream! . I was brought up on Hornby Dublo so they are 'points' to me....

 

 

[LMS Bess]

Awesome. I'll report back on my splitter attempts. Come payday I'll be getting decals for the loco body and there may be some crew figures on the way too. 

 

Aye I would normally feed points from the toe, but I find I usually want another power feed into the section beyond the points as well due to the questionable conductivity of the points. 

 

That's interesting about the insulated joiners being required, can you tell me more? This isn't a thing with Kato points, they must engineered around it. Looking at a Hornby points piece on my desk I can see there's potential for the current to ... go backwards where it's not supposed to (again we reach the limits of my technical lexicon). 

[Fat Controller]

On 24/10/2020 at 06:16, PatB said:

A foundry, as opposed to a smelter or a steelworks, probably wouldn't deal with iron ore. Iron would more likely arrive in the form of already smelted "pigs", and also as scrap. Of course, foundries often cast metals other than iron, which would, again, arrive as pigs or scrap.

Having worked in a foundry (British Steel, Landore), which made very large (50t+) castings, the main source of metal was scrap, (mainly bales of de-tinned recycled cans). I can't think that I ever saw pig-iron being used. Iron ore was definitely not used. Other inputs were coke (though not as much as you'd expect). The furnace was an innovative design, using tuyeres, as used in blast furnaces- it would have been very efficient, if only they'd checked the metric/ Imperial conversions for the gaskets....

One thing that foundries do use a lot of is moulding sand- we used to get one or two lorry loads per day. A certain amount was recycled.

[LMS Bess]

Was the sand delivered in sacks? 

[Il Grifone]

Insulated joiners need to be placed to prevent a feed back into the crossing (frog).

If we consider a simple oval with a siding, with a feed to the point toe. When set to the oval, current can flow all the way around to the point heel, but, since it is at the same polarity, there is no problem. However when set for the siding, the crossing is the same polarity as the opposite running rail. If 'Insul-frog' again there is no problem, because the crossing is electrically dead and no short circuit occurs. Depending on the design there is a possibility of a short between the blade and the back of wheels. There is usually an excessive point throw to avoid this. In the event of a live crossing, there will be a short circuit and an insulated joiner is necessary to prevent this. It can be inserted sufficiently far back to allow a section to isolate a second locomotive.

This is illustrated rather better than I can in these instructions for the Dublo 2 rail system. (It uses isolating rails instead of joiners but this makes nodifference

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/G331-original-Hornby-Dublo-instructions-0-6-0-tank-loco-2-rail-16-1159-50-/143518441481

Their choice of live crossings resulted in a system that was altogether too complicated (and delicate) for a toy and, at least in part contributed to the Company's demise.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Il Grifone

[Fat Controller]

39 minutes ago, LMS Bess said:

Was the sand delivered in sacks? 

In my days (early/mid 1970s) it came by road from Cheshire in bulk powder tankers. I suspect that in earlier times, sacks in sheeted opens would have been used.