What locomotive have I just bought (and what can be done with it)??

[melmerby]

7 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

The brushes shouldn't even get warm,

 

Back in the day when my trains were Triang and had XO3 motors they certainly did when running for long periods with some load, mainly because the whole motor got hot.

Mashimas and the like run much cooler.

[Il Grifone]

I did say "shouldn't".

Under heavy load the motor will obviously run warm, but hot suggests an overload. More efficient motors will generate less heat in the first place, of course.

[LMS Bess]

Today's excitement: brushes and pickup are installed. Here's a picture of where things currently stand: pickup is on underneath, green wire is poked up through the hole, motor is in place with new brushes. 

 

I'm assuming what I need to do is lengthen the green wire by soldering it to a longer piece, till it meets the right-hand end of the spring, and solder it in place there?

 

Or does it in fact connect to the bit of metal poking out of the black thing currently next to it? 

 

And ... re insulation, the left-hand end of the spring has got ... something on it. Is that the required insulation? 

 

(My terminology is dreadful. Come back GCSE science lessons, all is forgiven, I should never have bought those records by The Velvet Underground ...)

[melmerby]

The green wire needs to make contact with the brush that the insulation is on.

Sometimes there is a separate piece of brass shaped like the top of the brush which fits down alongside it.

 

The green wire goes to the motor brush via the inductor (or choke, the black sleeved item)

The white item is the capacitor which goes fron the motor brush to chassis, the two together make the interference suppressor.

[LMS Bess]

Ah okay. 

 

Is that the same as in the picture Phil posted - in which so far as I can see the aim is to connect the end of the pickup wire to same blob of solder the other green wire issues from: 

 

 

[melmerby]

The power from the pickup to the motor brush needs to go via the choke (black thing)

So the green wire from the pickup needs to be moved to the other terminal on that little board, so that the current goes through the choke to the motor.

 

[LMS Bess]

The right-hand terminal on this pic? (Presume so otherwise the end of the choke wouldn't be doing anything right?) 

 

 

[melmerby]

That's correct and there needs to be a connection from the  other green wire to the brush itself.

Currently it looks as if it's insulated from everything.

You could solder a short link but in needs to be thin wire so it is flexible enough to allow the brush to contact the armature properly.

Often there is a separate piece of brass or similar which fits in the slot with the brush itself.

 

 

[LMS Bess]

Aha! Awesome.

 

I have some brass strip to hand, if I cut and bent this to sit in the brush slot and lie against the wire, would this work or is it best just to solder in some thin wire? 

 

Armed with this knowledge I think I'm ready to go ahead, though expect delays as I've not soldered for some time and may in fact need to acquire the iron (suspect previous soldering iron was chucked in a house move). (I survived in the hobby without soldering for this long thanks to our old friend Kato Unitrack, but it's time I got soldering sorted out.)

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, LMS Bess said:

Aha! Awesome.

 

I have some brass strip to hand, if I cut and bent this to sit in the brush slot and lie against the wire, would this work or is it best just to solder in some thin wire? 

 

 

The contact needs to be good, so soldering a link wire to the brass strip you fabricate, is IMHO the way to go.

The brush needs to maintain good contact with the armature so whatever you dont hinder free brush movement.

Edited October 14, 2020 by melmerby

[hayfield]

Its strange how all of a sudden what seems to be simple to others just clicks into place as you understand what you should be doing

 

Recently I bought locos separately, but both not working. The first was a MRRC 5 pole motor that would not turn, tried a light oil and cleaning the commutator which usually works. In this case this did not work. I then dismantled the motor and cleaned the shaft and bearings, reassembled the motor and it sprang into life

 

The second was a Portescap RG4, the gearbox was nearly locked up (very stiff) and drive gear not meshing. I bit the bullet took the gearbox apart and just cleaned up the gears and chassis. Reassembled the gearbox and all ran freely all that was needed was to reset the gear on the motor shaft. I now have two spare working motors. The RG4 turned an OK buy into  a great buy 

 

5 years ago I certainly would not have attempted the RG4 gearbox servicing.

[Il Grifone]

The correct sequence is: pickup*, choke (the connection on the paxolin board on top of the motor), the other end of choke, the capacitor (the end not connected to chassis), and thence to the brush. The last connection should be through a metal tube over the spring, from which it should be insulated. This depends on the tube being clean (no oxide)  and actually touching the brush. There should be no need of any wire to the brush, however if fitted it should be long enough to not impede the bush or spring in any way.

 

* Fitted on the side with insulated wheels of course. This is the right hand side (looking from the cab towards the front of the locomotive). With this side positive, the convention is that locomotive should move forwards.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Il Grifone

[LMS Bess]

So here's my attempt at making a brass piece to sit with the brush holder (this is the piece would potentially have the wire soldered to it): is this the sort of idea? My piece is at far left of photo next to the brush holder I copied. 

 

 

[LMS Bess]

3 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

The correct sequence is: pickup*, choke (the connection on the paxolin board on top of the motor), the other end of choke, the capacitor (the end not connected to chassis), and thence to the brush. The last connection should be through a metal tube over the spring, from which it should be insulated. This depends on the tube being clean (no oxide)  and actually touching the brush. There should be no need of any wire to the brush, however if fitted it should be long enough to not impede the bush or spring in any way.

 

* Fitted on the side with insulated wheels of course. This is the right hand side (looking from the cab towards the front of the locomotive). With this side positive, the convention is that locomotive should move forwards.

Ah, well here's another step to try. I'll see if it works with just adding the pickup link to the choke; if no, clean the area between spring and brush; then if still no joy wire in another link 

[Il Grifone]

The brush doesn't seem to be making contact with the commutator in the photo. They usually sit more or less vertically.

 

I see my attempt to edit my last post failed - it should read "to not impede the brush or spring" not "to not impede the bush or spring".

[LMS Bess]

23 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

 

It's touching the commutator - I think the little cube of carbon on the new brush is fatter than the original, which is pushing out the holder 

[phil_sutters]

I don't know if these will help.

[melmerby]

Unfortunately on the OPs motor, it appears from the photos that somebody has soldered the cap to the brush spring such that the tube is too far from the brush.

Or is that still copper tube bearing on the brush?

In which case it should work.

 

Maybe the ideal solution is start again and do it as per Meccano did?

Edited October 16, 2020 by melmerby

[LMS Bess]

It's the copper tube, I think. 

 

I have ordered a soldering kit today. And some three link couplings, which I'm aware are fiddly but I'm going in anyway. 

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, LMS Bess said:

 

 

I have ordered a soldering kit today.

Good man.

IMHO a model railway essential.

 

Re copper tube

If it is, it is as it should be and power should be getting to the motor. As long as power from the pickups is getting through the choke all should be well.

You shouldn't need that piece of fabricated brass.

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by melmerby

[LMS Bess]

Excellent. I shall await the postie. I also tried to make some vacuum pipes out of wire, then decided to sack that off and get ready made ones. I thought I'd add also the metal struts at front and rear for lanterns and headcode disks. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by LMS Bess
Pumps to pipes

[LMS Bess]

Oh yes and I was wondering - fire irons, do they go in the cab (in which case they'll be blocked by motor so no need) or hang on back of bunker (in which case I might make and add some)? 

[hayfield]

I have just bought a book by Guy Williams "Locomotive Construction" More about scratch building but the tips and processes are worth knowing about. I also have several of Iain Rice's books Whitemetal loco Construction & Etched Loco Construction, both worth having as great reads and full of tips. He has also done one on etched chassis construction.

[73c]

10 hours ago, LMS Bess said:

Oh yes and I was wondering - fire irons, do they go in the cab (in which case they'll be blocked by motor so no need) or hang on back of bunker (in which case I might make and add some)? 

If I remember correctly, they sit outside, along the length of the fireman's side tank.

[Il Grifone]

Those rebuilt brushes have rather a large chunk of material replacing the original. (The replacement heads are intended for Tri-ang X.04 motors and large even for them). I usually file them down a bit (the original Dublo is rather small in comparison).

 

Do you have a multimeter to check continuity etc.? If not, it might be worth acquiring one. They are available for a few pounds on eBay etc.