What locomotive have I just bought (and what can be done with it)??

[Brit70053]

17 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

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Their choice of live crossings resulted in a system that was altogether too complicated (and delicate) for a toy and, at least in part contributed to the Company's demise.

The added complication of working an extra piece of special 'Isolating' rail into a layout, plus  the required switch and wiring increased the cost of adding a point to the Hornby Dublo two rail system to about twice the price of the not inexpensive point  itself, if I recall correctly. It certainly made adding a point to my early trainset a none starter and I can imagine this being the case for many, as stated a contribution to the sad demise of Hornby Dublo.

 

LMS Bess is going through an excellent process of introduction and learning which will be of use to many who may have an impulse purchase as a starting point to their model railway journey.  I'm enjoying reading of the revival of the R1, the first electric loco I had and which still runs well, though not so controllably as newer models.

 

Regards,

                    John

 

 

 

 

[LMS Bess]

1 hour ago, Il Grifone said:

Insulated joiners need to be placed to prevent a feed back into the crossing (frog).

If we consider a simple oval with a siding, with a feed to the point toe. When set to the oval, current can flow all the way around to the point heel, but, since it is at the same polarity, there is no problem. However when set for the siding, the crossing is the same polarity as the opposite running rail. If 'Insul-frog' again there is no problem, because the crossing is electrically dead and no short circuit occurs. Depending on the design there is a possibility of a short between the blade and the back of wheels. There is usually an excessive point throw to avoid this. In the event of a live crossing, there will be a short circuit and an insulated joiner is necessary to prevent this. It can be inserted sufficiently far back to allow a section to isolate a second locomotive.

This is illustrated rather better than I can in these instructions for the Dublo 2 rail system. (It uses isolating rails instead of joiners but this makes nodifference

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/G331-original-Hornby-Dublo-instructions-0-6-0-tank-loco-2-rail-16-1159-50-/143518441481

Their choice of live crossings resulted in a system that was altogether too complicated (and delicate) for a toy and, at least in part contributed to the Company's demise.

Ahh yes, makes sense. 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Il Grifone said:

Insulated joiners need to be placed to prevent a feed back into the crossing (frog).

 

Aren't Kato frogs isolated?

[LMS Bess]

On 27/10/2020 at 13:38, melmerby said:

Aren't Kato frogs isolated?

They must be, as the insulated joiners haven't been required in any of the projects I've done with Kato.

[LMS Bess]

I have another prototype question to test you with. This one is about lineside huts. 

 

As any micro I make for this R1 to go on will be my first foray back into OO since ... it must be at least twenty years ... the first thing I'm going to attempt is a brutally simple switching diorama based on the west hand sidings at Folkestone, with probably one points for now. I want to feel my way back into the scale. These are referenced as a carriage siding but I can see freight rolling stock in some pics. The sand, nasty grass and ballast I can handle. Backdrop painting can account for the rest, depending on viewer position it'll either be a bit of Folkestone or just the sea, maybe with boats. 

 

Still the sidings present a conundrum, as you'll see in the attached compo picture. 

 

At first I thought the hut was one of those SR concrete huts (for which there's a model available or I can make own). On closer inspection though it looks like dark creosoted wood walls with metal roof. Then I wondered if it's a grounded goods van - but it looks too wide? Can anyone take an educated guess, and are there other standard SR huts than the concrete ones that this might be? 

 

I have experience of miniature plank on frame construction from an old NYC station I made once. I'm ... just about willing to go through it all again (I say now). Be easier in 4mm scale.

 

I've squinted at the lamp post next to it and I think it's an SR swan neck type. 

[Il Grifone]

I've taken the liberty to download the photos and zoom them up. The larger shed appears to be wooden with a metal (corrugated iron?) roof. It is definitely too large for a grounded van body. From the map scale, it appears to measure 30 feet x 15 feet. Also from the map, it appears to foul the loading gauge, which cannot be the case.

The smaller shed appears to be similar to the one Airfix sold as a coal office (still available from Dapol as CO11).

 

https://www.Dapol.co.uk/shop/model-accessories/self-assembly-oo-kits

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Il Grifone

[Fat Controller]

28 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

I've taken the liberty to download the photos and zoom them up. The larger shed appears to be wooden with a metal (corrugated iron?) roof. It is definitely too large for a grounded van body. From the map scale, it appears to measure 30 feet x 15 feet. Also from the map, it appears to foul the loading gauge, which cannot be the case.

The smaller shed appears to be similar to the one Airfix sold as a coal office (still available from Dapol as CO11).

 

https://www.Dapol.co.uk/shop/model-accessories/self-assembly-oo-kits

 

It couldn't be a coaling facility, could it? Which part of Folkestone is it meant to be?

[LMS Bess]

Ah - now, that 30' makes sense, I'd grocked it being slightly smaller but, five 6' planks running horizontally makes 30', and if that darker square on the wall is a door, I note it's about one fifth the length of the wall ... which suggests interior posts spaced to accommodate said planks, but miss a row for the door. I suppose we can assume symmetric door on the other side. 

 

Squinting at the 1946 view I feel like there might be a window in the corner as well.

[LMS Bess]

4 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

It couldn't be a coaling facility, could it? Which part of Folkestone is it meant to be?

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/f/folkestone_harbour/index13.shtml

 

^ The full picture for context 

[Fat Controller]

23 minutes ago, LMS Bess said:

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/f/folkestone_harbour/index13.shtml

 

^ The full picture for context 

It's changed a bit since then, and is currently being 'developed' again The platforms, signal box and viaduct are still there, but all the sidings have been ripped up long since. Still no wiser as to that hut; it might be a sheltered coal stage for the locos shunting the sidings.

[LMS Bess]

Certainly it looks the eastern goods yard is very cramped for space and iirc there were several engine sheds there that all got disused and the R1s were stabled up at F Junction. So ... the western sidings might be where a coal stage would end up 

[LMS Bess]

And it might explain why there's a door on the back 

[73c]

This might be of some help. Don't know if will cover what your looking for in particular.

 

https://www.ferrypubs.co.uk/product/rails-across-the-harbour-folkestone-and-its-branch-line/

[LMS Bess]

Incidentally, an interesting find, Folkestone during the Dunkirk Evacuation: 

 

http://dunkirk1940.org/index.php?&p=1_377#:~:text=In 1940 Folkestone was a,a high-profile military presence.&text=Many locals had left Folkestone,town were forced to close.

 

Including some details of specific ships. That has potential - perhaps some crowds of servicemen wandering about - one would assume some of them would be keen to sample the delights of Folkestone; or, big steamer in service as a troop ship in the background painting.

 

(My company of 1/72 chaps are all in Tobruk style sadly or I could press them into service. They've been having an easy time since the Covid outbreak.) 

[LMS Bess]

And ... there's a picture of the sidings area from the north. The building only shows up as a blur but with the eye of faith I think I can see it has an open front (which would tally with coal stage). I've emailed the owner of that website to see if there's a bigger picture. 

[The Johnster]

I very much doubt that troops returned from the Dunkirk beaches would have been allowed to sample whatever delights Folkestone may have had to offer, and I am sure there were and are many.  They would have been marshalled off the ships and on to the trains and taken on (I was going to say whisked, but the gradient would have prevented that) to their unit's home barracks asap via some inland staging post (Ashford suggests itself), in order to clear the platforms for the next train, and to prevent them fraternising with civilians and speaking of things the government did not want civilians to know about.  They were in any case completely exhausted, in a sense probably beyond what we can understand by the word, by their ordeal, many of them not having slept or eaten properly for over a week as the British retreat became a virtual rout in Dunkirk's hinterlands.

 

They would have arrived in large numbers (the ships were pretty crowded) but in small groups or even single individuals who had been separated from their units and had to fend for themselves, mostly under fire and with little cover, and there would have been a good deal of effort spent over the next few days in them trying to find their ways back and in the units' locating them, with some sort of clearing station arrangement to facilitate this.

 

They were, I know from having spoken to some of them, absolutely flabbergasted by the heroes reception they got from civilians, being unaware that the press had presented the defeat as heroic and miraculous (I am certainly not trying to suggest that it wasn't).  They regarded themselves as defeated failures, which they weren't of course, and expected derision and scorn from the general population at home, not chocolates, cakes, and adulation.

[LMS Bess]

And it's a bit of a stretch to have them breaking out through the carriage sidings I suppose. 

 

You'll all be excited to know I've found another aerial photograph of the area *from north* i.e. from the direction that makes a better model - I'll just need to get on laptop to post it. A shadow maintains some mystery about the hut, but ... 

[LMS Bess]

And here we have it, after much searching Britain from Above website had a front view (complete with our hero the R1) ... appears to be a solid front. Maybe it's for the carriage cleaners (evidenced by the long thin platform between the tracks at right). Or maybe shadow obscures coaling stage but its relation to the track seems off for that. There was another interesting part too, coming up next post 

[LMS Bess]

Now down on the next bit of sidings I spied what might be a bus station, but, could it be a loading facility for rail to truck? Particularly the way those vehicles are backing up to the building makes me wonder. 

 

 

[cypherman]

HI LMS Bess,

I would say that the bulk of the vehicles there are buses with perhaps the right hand  vehicles of the 3 together being  trucks. But they still maybe buses. It is the off set cabs that give the buses away. That and what looks like a luggage rack on the roof of the first of the 3 vehicles. Bus companies did tend to have some trucks for maintenance such as carrying wheels/tyres and tools to broken down buses.

Edited October 29, 2020 by cypherman

[cypherman]

23 minutes ago, LMS Bess said:

Now down on the next bit of sidings I spied what might be a bus station, but, could it be a loading facility for rail to truck? Particularly the way those vehicles are backing up to the building makes me wonder. 

 

 

Sorry meant to add these pictures of the types of buses they may be. The first bus picture is one that ran in Folkestone. I believe the second picture shows buses from the same company. I also found this over all shot of Folkestone harbour station. Thought it may help you. It was taken in 1946.

Edited October 29, 2020 by cypherman

[Fat Controller]

13 minutes ago, cypherman said:

HI LMS Bess,

I would say that the bulk of the vehicles there are buses with perhaps the right hand  vehicles of the 3 together being  trucks. But they still maybe buses. It is the off set cabs that give the buses away. That and what looks like a luggage rack on the roof of the first of the 3 vehicles. Bus companies did tend to have some trucks for maintenance such as carrying wheels/tyres and tools to broken down buses.

They look like the sort of open-top bus that was used to carry out maintenance on street lights (before 'cherry-pickers' arrived), and also trimmed trees on rural 'bus routes. We still get an annual visit from a Stagecoach one on the 17 route every year.

I don't know if that was where the 'bus depot used to be (the current one is at Cheriton, on the western edge of town), but it's feasible that buses were at least stabled at the harbour, as the Southern Railway was the majority shareholder in the 'East Coach Road Car Company

[LMS Bess]

Aha - all useful. I find on micro layouts (which this is going to be) adding in figure movements adds a lot of operation interest - on my N setup (modern image US) when I can be bothered I have the second of the two loco crew come out (represented by a little figure in a hi Vis based on a bit of see through plastic) and 'set' the points/check the couplings as would happen in real life. He sometimes also rides on the front car when propelling a rake as happens (talks to driver on walkie talkie). 

 

With this I'd probably get a guard and a shunter and have them involved in the action. So also figures that have 'come off the train' and are 'walking to busses' could work here.(Maybe even weighted and on strings controlled from above - a truly bonkers thought that has crossed my mind before.)

[Fat Controller]

2 minutes ago, LMS Bess said:

Aha - all useful. I find on micro layouts (which this is going to be) adding in figure movements adds a lot of operation interest - on my N setup (modern image US) when I can be bothered I have the second of the two loco crew come out (represented by a little figure in a hi Vis based on a bit of see through plastic) and 'set' the points/check the couplings as would happen in real life. He sometimes also rides on the front car when propelling a rake as happens (talks to driver on walkie talkie). 

 

With this I'd probably get a guard and a shunter and have them involved in the action. So also figures that have 'come off the train' and are 'walking to busses' could work here.(Maybe even weighted and on strings controlled from above - a truly bonkers thought that has crossed my mind before.)

Whatever else you do, don't forget the sea-gulls, which outnumber humans in Folkestone. Incidentally, the yard you're modelling is where the SER had hoped to build its terminal, with the line following the route of the Hythe branch from Sandling Junction, through Seabrook and Sandgate. The plan was stymied by the residents of the Leazes, who objected to a railway running between their houses and the beach; amongst their number was the Earl of Radnor, a director of the GWR...

[LMS Bess]

Ah yes now. Competition between railway companies. I love reading about it. The ferocity of the competition is the same between America and Britain, but the form it takes here is so ... recognisable.