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PMW
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So, I have decided to create a layout for my eldest, aged 10 as he keeps asking to get his trains out and getting them out, setting them up and then putting it all away is getting to be a chore beyond belief. We have negotiated the use of the spare bedroom for a permanent layout, in truth it's tiny and too small to use for anything else, except fill it with junk which is what has been happening. 

 

So 1st question .... Baseboard? Over the weekend I've heard, use plywood, don't use plywood, use mdf, don't use mdf. use chipboard, don't use chipboard, use osb ....... you get the idea. What, in your opinion makes the best base for your layout. I will not be pinning track but screwing it.

 

2nd question .... Underlay. What underlay is best to isolate the track from the board and provide sound insulation. I don't ant the noise the trains make when running directly onto a board. I was thinking of using 2mm cork sheet, is this a good idea, or not?

 

3rd question. What period and location to go for? My current set of rolling stock is eclectic to say the least. 

 

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My first thought given the era of the Diesel locos is all 1960's to go for that era mainline, with an attached branch line but Flying Scotsman's livery is wrong for that era not to mention Flying Scotsman was retired in 63 and the BR blue livery didn't appear until 1965-6. Do I just go for a preservation railway in modern era which would give me the possibility to add modern stock on the mainline, or is that too much of a kop out?

 

Then Question 4 .... Track? I have a decent amount of sectional track, mostly Hornby. Two complete circles of both 2nd and 3rd radius, lots of first radius which I want to avoid using. Just a bit short on straight tracks but will look to sort that soon, though lots of online shops seem to be struggling for stock at present. Is sectional track better than flexible systems, or worse? 

 

 

 

Please let me have any thoughts?

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I wouldn't worry too much about era etc if the main user is 10. Worrying about that usually comes later.

 

Similarly for a kids layout sectional track on foam underlay has a lot going for it. That's how my childhood layout was built and I had hours of fun and wasn't bothered by the fact that it doesn't look all that great with adult eyes. I wouldn't say that sectional or flexible systems are better or worse than reach other, they're essentially answers to different questions.

 

Cork would be pointless for sound deadening if you're going to then put ballast down in the traditional way of setting it in a PVA "cement", as it'll all be solid and stuck together.

 

You can make a board out of pretty much anything you like; my first layout was on the back of a wardrobe door, which I think was MDF under the veneer. If it's never going to move then actually it's probably best to prioritise how you're going to work with it. Again my childhood layout was chipboard with 2x1 battens to hold it straight. And it worked perfectly well. Ply has many benefits, but weight is a major one that's irrelevant for a fixed layout.

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I think you have to look at this through a 10 year olds eyes. Authenticity is much less important than reliable running and the ability to change things around. Sectional track yes. Flexi is just too fiddly for a 10 year old. I would still avoid mdf and stick with ply. As to stock, anything goes, just enjoy it. Above all, let the child decide and give him the ownership.

Ian

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It might have helped to add that my thought for base board is 11mm OSB. Slice it in half to make two 8' x 2', cut each down to 70", the width of the room, leaving two pieces 24 x 26". Cut one in half to make two 24" x 13" pieces and place these between the two boards, then add the remaining 24 x 26 on one side to end up, after the addition of an off cur or two with something like this. The central cut out at about 2 foot by 3 gives access all around the layout. It will be generally flat, with the exception of the branch to the left hand side which will be below the mainline, perhaps serving a canal wharf. which exits under the track top left. 

 

 

stage three.jpg

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The whole thing will be braced into one piece with 2x1, and when freed from it's legs should just about be manageable to take out of the house, should we ever move. 

 

I read about people using 2x1 for the legs which seems a bit puny to me, I was thinking 2x2?

 

All jamie wants to do right now is run trains, but hopefully we'll get him involved in scratch building the scenery. With printer, laser cutters and 3d printers at our disposal the world is our oyster. 

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26 minutes ago, PMW said:

The whole thing will be braced into one piece with 2x1, and when freed from it's legs should just about be manageable to take out of the house, should we ever move. 

 

I read about people using 2x1 for the legs which seems a bit puny to me, I was thinking 2x2?

 

All jamie wants to do right now is run trains, but hopefully we'll get him involved in scratch building the scenery. With printer, laser cutters and 3d printers at our disposal the world is our oyster. 

I say this looks excellent. As a 10 year old,  I would have killed for something like this. As i said before,  keep it flexible so it can be changed to keep interest maintained. 

Yes, 2 x 2 is better for legs,  unless you already have the 2x1 In which case I would fix two lengths in an L section for stiffness.

Ian

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9 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

A detail, but the crossovers at the bottom of the plan don't allow trains on the outer circuit to run straight into the sidings.  It should be simple to rearrange so this is possible.

 

Yes I'd noticed that. I could move some, or add some more. The current plan means all of the turnouts are located next to the central inspection / operating well so that Jamie doesn't need to reach across scenery if there is a derailment on them. He is likely to try and rattle Flying Scotsman with all six coaches across them at full chat, so if anything comes off anywhere it is likely to be there. 

 

Control will I think be DCC, just trying to get my head around the best way to go at present. Points will be electric, but rather than DCC I might chose to control them wit a digital signal box. I think it will be easier for jim to visualise where the trains will go 

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5 hours ago, PMW said:

Yes I'd noticed that. I could move some, or add some more. The current plan means all of the turnouts are located next to the central inspection / operating well so that Jamie doesn't need to reach across scenery if there is a derailment on them. He is likely to try and rattle Flying Scotsman with all six coaches across them at full chat, so if anything comes off anywhere it is likely to be there.

 

Ah - non-trivial then!  Perhaps swap the positions of the crossovers between the inner circuit and sidings like this?  I've also provided a headshunt separate from the canal branch.

 

Studio_20200928_042545.jpg.354027faa21266a9744008a629597cab.jpg

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Thinking about how I used to play with trains, you've got a nice big fan of sidings to park carriages in, but not so much in the way of loco parking. I'd use the area to the left of the operating well for a loco depot rather than the canal branch, though there may well be space to have both to an extent. I'd also have a crossover at the top of the operating well so that it's possible to run round without doing a complete lap (I didn't have that and it bothered me).

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I like that. I wish I had something like that as a child.  The thing to remember is to  enable modifications and additions, as the 'newcomer' gains more experience. Some people just run trains  (as you say)  full chat,  some like to shunt. Your lad is entering into a much larger world than hitherto, so exploring the possibilities is an entirely natural progression. 

 

I fully agree that reliability is the key here.  Also, make whichever layout you decide capable of being raised in height.  Your lad may be 10 now, but he won't be 10 forever....

 

Best wishes,

Ian.

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12 hours ago, Zomboid said:

I wouldn't worry too much about era etc if the main user is 10. Worrying about that usually comes later.

 

 

 

Actually I would worry about this.  Developing a theme now will make it not look so "wrong" later.

 

1970s/80s BR blue would seem to fit the stock you've got now.  But you could make a change to 1950s/1960s BR era.  GWR 1930s is also generally well-catered for, but not so much the other big four companies.

 

The "problem" with modern stock is that it tends to be loooooong, and coaches on 2nd radius curves look... interesting.

 

Actually what I'd consider is going for is O16.5, with bodies.  Or take a look at the little Hattons coaches with something appropriate - terriers maybe.

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The long straight run at the top of the board will house the mainline station, hence it has no crossovers. I am toying with the idea of bringing the branch line around the top right corner and terminating it in the mainline station, but to do this I would need to use the mainline as a run round track. This would mean reducing the operating well slightly at the top to make space to turn "platform 2" into an island platform with "3" on the lower edge serving the branch line. This would involve the use of more 1st radius track work, but this will only be used by smaller rolling stock. 

 

I'm not happy with the sidings as yet, they do need more work. The original idea of them is to fill the center of the baseboard making it more friendly to a ten year old who wants to play with trains, rather than someone who wants to model a realistic village or industrial scene. To that end the layout may seem a bit track heavy. They do that but in reality there are too many coach sidings and as you rightly say, not enough engine storage. I might lose one of the sidings, on top of which they may not need to be so long. The longest has to hold five coaches, so I have to measure that, probably with bits of track on the kitchen table. This will also determine the length of the station, I don't want coaches over hanging he platforms, this is not Market Harborough!

 

I can't cut the top right corner, at least I could but there would be no access from beneath as that will sit on top of a cut out in the room for the stairwell which rises below it. This also determines the height, a good height for me but in truth too high for a ten year old but we have a very useful stool which rises and lowers and will be used to seat the main operator in the central well, when he wants to sit, and a decent step if he wants to stand. The plan is for a second operator to work from the lower left if required, which is the cut away to allow the door to open (still to be tested!) from where any parts of the layout not accessible from the main operating area should be reached. 

 

The curves on the main loop are 2nd and 3rd radius, mainly chosen because we already have those in sufficient quantity (two complete circles of each) from the sets he has. We also have lots of 1st radius (5 full circles) but I too am not keen on using that if it can be avoided, and it may be bundled in to packs of 8 and sold. 

 

The first priority will be to get the board made, painted grey, and put in place. Then layout the main double track circuit and get that down. I plan to lay the track on cork over felt to kill unwanted noise as much as possible. The felt is laid on double sided sticky tape so as not to fill its weave with glue, 2mm cork is laid loose on top then the track, which is screwed rather than pinned so it does not crush the under lay. This, supposedly, leaves a floating track which kills the amplification of noise through the base board. It can be ballasted as normal with pva and crushed stone or cork crumb and gives a realistic height to the track. We can build from there, adding the sidings using the same arrangement, creating basic scenery at first then improving the detail. 

 

In terms of era I think I have settled on modern era preservation railway, it is the only way the current mishmash of rolling stock could feasibly coexist, and whilst it might be a kop out, if Jamie gets serious about this hobby and wants to commit his pocket money to rationalising it to a specific era and location later he can do so. Also we live quite close to a preserved railway, we can hear the whistles and see the smoke from our garden and we often visit their gala days, so it gives a touch of reality in Jamies eyes at least compared to what he knows. 

 

Lastly I appreciate the action of modern rolling stock on OO gauge is not entirely convincing. It can look like a square wheel on a round corner but such is the nature of the beast and we are too far committed to OO gauge in terms of what we already have to change. Once we have this all settled we will need to start thinking about control, but that will be another thread. 

 

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One other question to ask, are three way points reliable for running? I have always tended to look on the as a bit gimmicky, but a three way point might be very useful in creating the loco storage. A three way point to create three tracks, with a standard point on each outer track could give me a five lane loco store in relatively short track length. I can then get to scratch building a five lane shed. 

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If we're talking mk1 length rolling stock, you may not have a straight long enough for 5 of them. Possibly the top, but if they will fit then the loco will be on a curve and presumably not at the platform. And none of the sidings come close to long enough for 5 bogie coaches. The longest of them will possibly hold 3.

 

How do you feel about curved points? In the context a planning exercise they're an excellent way to maximize space when the straights are too short. They aren't popular with everyone though.

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Is there any way of turning the operating well round by 90 degrees, so as to allow better access to that top right corner. I realise that the layout too would have to similarly rotate, but that may make access easier for all of initial tracklaying/construction, ‘playing’ and dealing with inevitable derailments etc.

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Here's 15 minutes of playing around and using curved points (everything on here is peco - most of it is the same geometry as Hornby, but not absolutely everyhing; the short straights in particular I don't think are identical). I'd have enjoyed myself as a kid on this. It's not operationally a total basket case either - you'd need a shunting engine to use the carriage sidings properly, and there's plenty of space to park locos. 5 coach trains will still be a squeeze if they work at all.

 

The set track doesn't quite align in anyrail, but I think there's enough wiggle room in the real stuff that you'd be OK.

PGW1.png

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I couldn't resist another iteration - that facing crossover I put on on the diagonal by mistake was bothering me... I've tried to put all the points where they'll be accessible. I got rid of the curved crossovers too.

I used a couple of bits of flexible track (orange) to get everything to line up better, but you could achieve what you need to by cutting down set track straights. The other colours don't mean a whole lot, I was just playing with the features in Anyrail.

 

I also thought that if you're going for a modern preservation theme, then 2 tracks means great central, and great central means island platforms... (you could also do it Chippenham/ Micheldever/ probably loads more style and have a station building on a former platform which is no longer connected, or Barnham/ Ramsgate style where the building was never directly on a platform)PGW2.jpg.a154da84fe7916f20ad6761c570dec2b.jpg

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2 hours ago, ITG said:

Is there any way of turning the operating well round by 90 degrees, so as to allow better access to that top right corner. I realise that the layout too would have to similarly rotate, but that may make access easier for all of initial tracklaying/construction, ‘playing’ and dealing with inevitable derailments etc.

 

Actually it could be, and doing so opens up whole new dimensions. The reason I went the way I did was the ease of cutting. With our local B&Q not cutting boards at present then it's down to me and a circular. 

 

But turn the operating hole around, move it slightly off centre so there is a wider and narrower side and that opens up whole new possibilities

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How your child interacts with the trains may possibly change now that a permanent set up is possible.

 

Perhaps build the baseboards, but for now keep the track as temporary and see how things develop and how the child wants to play with it?  Maybe the most interesting thing will end up being re-arranging the track every other week.

 

Then in 3 to 6 months, with a better idea of what the child wants / is interested in create a more permanent layout if that is what is wanted.

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