Adventures in trying to make waterslide transfers

[Paul_in_Ricky]

The UV printers are technology I haven't dealt with before.
The cheapest I could find easily is £1.8k https://www.amazon.co.uk/Automatic-Flatbed-Printer-emboss-leather/dp/B07Q35PQ7J/ref=pd_sbs_147_4/260-0175471-8074302?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07Q35PQ7J&pd_rd_r=2cdd9570-f1c9-412b-bb1a-8694591e6202&pd_rd_w=TTH3d&pd_rd_wg=fQK0B&pf_rd_p=b9bf232d-9a8a-4c7d-aa9d-641c0995d3a2&pf_rd_r=QECDPS1V9HN1TZWDNENN&psc=1&refRID=QECDPS1V9HN1TZWDNENN

 

The interesting detail in this advert is that it implies it uses an Epson R330 printhead. If that's the case the ink used ought to be usable in most normal inkjet printers. I'd guess that if a normal inkjet printer could be used* you could cure the ink with a UV light, I'd assume that the need for a UV light in the print head is only important if printing uneven surfaces which seems to be the USP of this class of printer.
How the printer's normal driver would handle a white ink would be an interesting challenge to overcome, but maybe not insurmountable. 

*Refilling inkjet carts is a pretty well used way of cutting normal printing costs, but can be problematic if the inks aren't of very high quality or aren't installed carefully.

[njee20]

UV printers look really interesting, as I understand it you can just print on the object (ie the wagon/loco), so using decal paper is entirely superfluous.

 

One popped up on my Facebook wall, I got really excited until I saw the price!

[Corbs]

A little update on testing with the C711WT. Trying to keep the differing colours to a minimum, this lining set has 2 colours separated, the white lining and the gold-ish colour.

The gold is created by dithering so you do still get a pattern, but hopefully not too noticeable at normal viewing distances.

 

Massive thanks to Callum Willcox for being the guinea pig for this and doing the application 3 times on his prized loco! 

 

 

 

With these, the transfer is supplied face-down and reversed, it's just so much easier to print them this way. We tried separating the graphic and the lining and applying one over the other, but it was very unsatisfactory with really bad 'silvering' and obvious edges.

 

This is what the decal set looks like on the computer, then it prints back-to-front.

 

[SDJR7F88]

36 minutes ago, Corbs said:

A little update on testing with the C711WT. Trying to keep the differing colours to a minimum, this lining set has 2 colours separated, the white lining and the gold-ish colour.

The gold is created by dithering so you do still get a pattern, but hopefully not too noticeable at normal viewing distances.

 

Massive thanks to Callum Willcox for being the guinea pig for this and doing the application 3 times on his prized loco! 

 

 

 

With these, the transfer is supplied face-down and reversed, it's just so much easier to print them this way. We tried separating the graphic and the lining and applying one over the other, but it was very unsatisfactory with really bad 'silvering' and obvious edges.

 

This is what the decal set looks like on the computer, then it prints back-to-front.

 

Once again mate many thanks indeed! She looks the beez! 

[James Hilton]

This makes interesting reading Corbs, you're a brave man splashing the cash on such an expensive machine, mind it's cheaper than a decent resin 3D printer! 

[laurenceb]

Worth watching-

 

[laurenceb]

Got any further with this?

[njee20]

On 09/10/2020 at 15:09, laurenceb said:

Worth watching-

 

I admit I skimmed it with no sound - and did watch the pros/cons at the end. The software and interactions with the company look dodgy as hell. What’s the underlying message?

[john new]

7 minutes ago, njee20 said:

I admit I skimmed it with no sound - and did watch the pros/cons at the end. The software and interactions with the company look dodgy as hell. What’s the underlying message?

Having watched it with the commentary on, the view was don't buy a model at the cheaper end - it is/they are c**p with hacked software packed with trojans and these have extremely high maintenance costs if not used almost daily as the ink sets with expensive consequences. Not an option for occasional hobbyists. Very good warning message.

 

Edited December 25, 2020 by john new

[laurenceb]

Plus it keeps trying to install dodgy software

[john new]

Just now, laurenceb said:

Plus it keeps trying to install dodgy software

That was the trojans I mentioned.

[laurenceb]

Oops! Speed reading

[njee20]

Thank you - I clocked that bit, and the “not for occasional hobby use” (nor high end) bit! Sounds like the technology still needs to mature. Sure it will, and like 3D printers we’ll be spoiled for sub-£500 models within a few years!

[Corbs]

3 hours ago, laurenceb said:

Got any further with this?

Yes been making transfers on the laser printer (within its limitations) for a while now - available on the website.

 

The big plus about it is the ability to print direct from the design program. There is no 'prep for print' process, you just click print and go. So for white transfers quickly, I'm your man.

It still doesn't really work for colour, though, but I have something else planned for that, just not gotten around to setting it up yet. Space is very much at a premium in the house.

[raymw]

Not very relevant, but the OKI printer I had, was not a laser, although most referred to it as such. It had rows of multicoloured leds, light onto a selenium? coated band, no separate oiling for the fuser, the ink contained the oil. I had to change it for a 'normal' laser. I was printing on 'foliac' transparency, for pcb trackwork, and the ink would not stick, but an ordinary laser's ink would. If I could remember where I put the printer, I could say what model it was.

Edited December 26, 2020 by raymw

[Arkoudaki]

Hi all,

 

I have been following this thread with great interest. I have tried producing decals for special projects using my inkjet printer but never been that happy with the results. The paper one gets from Amazon isn't that great, the inkjet does okay, but once coated as it needs to be, the decals are heavy. Hence, despite best efforts it always falls short of expectations.

 

Now the decals I am trying to create aren't necessarily train related but as the principles are all the same, I am hoping for some advice from all you 'pros' on how best to go about this. For my current project, I am trying to create very small detail items that are 1/56 scale (around 5mm in size) for 28mm miniatures, like those shown below in the photo. Other projects would be other small items for all sorts of things, including trains....that is of course if I can figure out a method that actually works and produces something of quality.

 

So how can I best go about this so that I get a result that actually looks good???

 

For software, I am using GIMP and Inkscape for the graphics. I know some will say Abobe or Corel Draw, but my brain is having enough difficulty learning Fusion 360 at present

 

In terms of hardware, I have a good Lexmark 9500 Inkjet as present. I have considered buying a color laser but the question is which one would be able to print good color at +1200 dpi (which I feel is needed given the nature of what I am trying to recreate). I have also considered buying a 'Ghost Cartridge' to do the white, as Ian MacCormac had suggested.

 

I am also in search of a better type of decal paper. I have come across a decal paper where the image is essentially a press-on type that you add water to remove the backing paper....but alas I don't know what this paper is called and where one can get it from. The person who produces these decals doesn't want to say, and I get that, but surely someone will know what this paper is and where one can buy it. It reminds me of tatoo paper. See photo below for how it works.

[Corbs]

Hello Arkoudaki,

 

The paper that I have found the best so far (at least for the laser printer) is made by a company called Sunnyscopa and I get it through Amazon. I get the white-backed, clear paper.

I've used some other ones including a more 'traditional' blue-backed paper and it was absolute trash only fit for the bin. The silvering was ridiculous, it was like sticking sellotape over your model.

 

As I understand the issue when using ghost toner with colour transfers is it means you have to apply 2 decals, one white for a base, and then one with the colour fill on top. In my experience applying 2-layer decals is problematic and a recipe for crinkling/air bubbles/silvering.

 

Whilst what I have currently is not the cheapest way for making white transfers, it is darn easy to use. I draw something in Illustrator and just send it direct to the printer, no image prep or layer separation needed, so it's great for that. It's just a shame the printer cannot do colour without such obvious dithering and only by printing face-down, there's no way of forcing it to reverse the printing layers.

 

My laser does have an issue with bitmap files though (such as photoshop or GIMP) where it needs to be converted in Illustrator, there is a workaround though thankfully.

 

I would be sceptical that any ordinary inkjet or laser would be able to do the graphics you want without doing a 2 layer transfer or painting the object white, because it always assumes the paper is white.

 

I've since bought two OKI MD-5000 printers (the old ribbon-type ones) and a laptop to run them, I've just not had the time or space to set them up yet. Will update this thread when I do.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Corbs

[cctransuk]

9 minutes ago, Corbs said:

I've since bought two OKI MD-5000 printers (the old ribbon-type ones) and a laptop to run them, I've just not had the time or space to set them up yet. Will update this thread when I do.

 

Alps / Oki / Kodak etc Microdry printers are still the only viable waterslide decal printers for the home user - if you can get hold of a good one with some ink cartridges.

 

John Isherwood,

https://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm

[Corbs]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Alps / Oki / Kodak etc Microdry printers are still the only viable waterslide decal printers for the home user - if you can get hold of a good one with some ink cartridges.

 

John Isherwood,

https://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm

 

I agree (from what I've read). John Peck sorted me out with the laptop and some inks as a starter pack, he has been incredibly helpful.

 

The only thing on the horizon I can see that might change things is whether the process Andrew Jeffcock uses (UV Printing) becomes viable for home use. At the moment it all seems either way too expensive, or too cheap/relies on pirated software/unclear as to whether it'll do what you want.

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Corbs said:

 

I agree (from what I've read). John Peck sorted me out with the laptop and some inks as a starter pack, he has been incredibly helpful.

 

The only thing on the horizon I can see that might change things is whether the process Andrew Jeffcock uses (UV Printing) becomes viable for home use. At the moment it all seems either way too expensive, or too cheap/relies on pirated software/unclear as to whether it'll do what you want.

 

Contact Spot On Transfers - 01588-640030 (Sam and Bridget); spotontransfers@btinternet.com . They produce a superb, super-thin, waterslide transfer paper with blue backing - tell them that you want the same spec. that they supply to John Isherwood.

 

Regards,

John.

[Arkoudaki]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Contact Spot On Transfers - 01588-640030 (Sam and Bridget); spotontransfers@btinternet.com . They produce a superb, super-thin, waterslide transfer paper with blue backing - tell them that you want the same spec. that they supply to John Isherwood.

 

Regards,

John.

 

So John, is that for laser or inkjet? I checked their website but couldn't find paper on sale....unless I just missed it.

 

Also, any ideas what sorta paper that this LBMS I cited above is using....the decals are printed in reverse with a paper layer on top, you peel the top clear plastic layer off, then just press in on the area, then wet the top sheet and the decals sticks.  Like I said, reminds me of Tatoo paper but not sure which one.

 

 

[Arkoudaki]

On the printer front, any good suggestions for a color laser that would do the sort of small work I am trying to achieve?

 

I have looked at these two so far:

 

HP Colour LaserJet Pro M255dw Printer

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B081FHZXRH/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_8?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

 

Lexmark C3326dw A4 Colour Laser Printer

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07SL6VCQS/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

 

 

Other suggestions are welcomed.

 

And is it the case that no matter how hard one tries with an inkjet it just will never be that great??? Just wondering what everyone else's experiences are, as most people seem to start out with these.

 

Thanks in advance for sharing your insights.

[cctransuk]

16 hours ago, Arkoudaki said:

 

So John, is that for laser or inkjet? I checked their website but couldn't find paper on sale....unless I just missed it.

 

Also, any ideas what sorta paper that this LBMS I cited above is using....the decals are printed in reverse with a paper layer on top, you peel the top clear plastic layer off, then just press in on the area, then wet the top sheet and the decals sticks.  Like I said, reminds me of Tatoo paper but not sure which one.

 

 

 

I use it for Alps / Oki Microdry - no idea about any other system.

 

John Isherwood.

Edited January 20, 2021 by cctransuk

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, Arkoudaki said:

On the printer front, any good suggestions for a color laser that would do the sort of small work I am trying to achieve?

 

I have looked at these two so far:

 

HP Colour LaserJet Pro M255dw Printer

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B081FHZXRH/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_8?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

 

Lexmark C3326dw A4 Colour Laser Printer

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07SL6VCQS/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

 

 

Other suggestions are welcomed.

 

And is it the case that no matter how hard one tries with an inkjet it just will never be that great??? Just wondering what everyone else's experiences are, as most people seem to start out with these.

 

Thanks in advance for sharing your insights.

 

As per my post above :-

 

"Alps / Oki / Kodak etc Microdry printers are still the only viable waterslide decal printers for the home user - if you can get hold of a good one with some ink cartridges".

 

John Isherwood,

https://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm

[Arkoudaki]

Well I thought of you early on John but as you say on your site:

 

Quote

Please note that I cannot consider commissions for other periods, or requests to print from customers' own designs, as the research and formatting involved is prohibitively time-consuming.

Apologies if these conditions exclude your pet project.  I am, after all, just a fellow-modeller who can print transfers. I must keep some time for my own modelling!

 

So I am trying to figure out other ways to get things done.   Thanks for sharing your expertise.