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Replacing income


davidmcc3
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What equipment & layout materials do you need if the club cannot meet? Apart from rent & upkeep of property, then the club should effectively be frozen with no income or expenditure?

 

Our club has an emergency surplus for the unknown situation which we have never needed to access. Surely this is that situation?

Subscriptions have been mentioned as part of the treasurer's report at every AGM I have ever been to for any organisation. The recommendation for this is usually "no change necessary", but if funds are running low, then surely an increase is required to counteract this? Covid is a situation everyone knows about & understands so you shouldn't raise too many eyebrows by raising an EGM to suggest an increase. Since a physical meeting is not currently possible, maybe you could ballot the membership by post or email?

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We have had donations from our members as well as subs. 

 

I must admit, one club of which I am a member has increased subs and I am loathe to pay the higher rate as I get very little from the subs...  sticking the subs up may have a negative effect on overall membership.

 

Perhaps members could be asked for "donations" to replace weekly visit subs?

 

Baz

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There will be no 'one size fits all' solution because of the diverse makeup of various clubs. Depending on club circumtances the ideas above have pros and cons. Uisng reserves if they are there is probably sensible on the basis that this really is a (hopefully) a once-in-a-generation situation. Putting up subs may work for a close knit club, but if the club has a wider membership that sells itself on benefits such as club meetings and use of facilities then this could well be a retrograde step; an alternative is to perhaps promote cheaper membership to encourage new members with perhaps online/forum/Zoom type activities.

Moving club sales online is an obvious move if at least some members are willing to manage this - the hassle can be offset by the opportunity to reach a much wider audience. 

The big one for me is whether a club is perhaps able to grasp the nettle and think about what could be organised in terms of an event in Spring 2021 assuming that there will need to be infection mitigation protocols - one way system, numbers on the door managed to space things out, ventilation, card payments - but without either thinking everything will be back to normal (it won't) or thinking that we'll all still be in lockdown (we won't either, because by next year ways will need to have been established to allow life to go on. How it is arranged will depend heavily o local circumstances and facilities but the key is to work out waht is possible rather than what isn't.

PS I'm not just armchair commenting because the 'what is possible and when' approach is one I am engaging with it the club actiivities I am involved in.

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Our clubs subscription fees cover the rent of the clubroom. Although we are not getting any income from exhibitions we are not having to spend any money since the clubroom is closed. 

We also have a emergency fund which we still have not had to use. 

Every club is different in terms of how many members they have and how big their clubroom is and how much rent they have to pay.

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2 hours ago, Barry O said:

We have had donations from our members as well as subs. 

 

I must admit, one club of which I am a member has increased subs and I am loathe to pay the higher rate as I get very little from the subs...  sticking the subs up may have a negative effect on overall membership.

 

Perhaps members could be asked for "donations" to replace weekly visit subs?

 

Baz

 

Agreed - at a time when many clubs are unable to meet, it would be somewhat perverse to increase subs! (I know of some clubs which have either cancelled or extended subs to cover the lockdown period). Members themselves may be suffering a decrease or loss of income, and for them a choice between paying increased subs or resigning their membership may well result in the latter.

 

Requesting donations (or even some other fundraising activity like a 'promise auction') seems the more agreeable option.

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11 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Agreed - at a time when many clubs are unable to meet, it would be somewhat perverse to increase subs! (I know of some clubs which have either cancelled or extended subs to cover the lockdown period). Members themselves may be suffering a decrease or loss of income, and for them a choice between paying increased subs or resigning their membership may well result in the latter.

 

Requesting donations (or even some other fundraising activity like a 'promise auction') seems the more agreeable option.

 

The flip side of that is if the club owns its own premises, then the ongoing maintenance

has to be considered. It might be necessary to spend money to keep the clubhouse in a

reasonable condition for when we can re-open, so asking for money to ensure the club

members have a clubhouse to come back to after lockdown is a reasonable request.

 

Also, looking for the silver lining in this difficult situation, is that any major refurbishment

or improvement work could be carried out while the building is not in use, without getting

the usual objection of 'but I can't run my trains!', normally from those that complain the 

loudest when it's not running right, but won't do any of the repair or maintenance work!

 

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1 minute ago, jcm@gwr said:

 

Also, looking for the silver lining in this difficult situation, is that any major refurbishment

or improvement work could be carried out while the building is not in use, without getting

the usual objection of 'but I can't run my trains!', normally from those that complain the 

loudest when it's not running right, but won't do any of the repair or maintenance work!

 

 

Yes - that's exactly what my club (Reading Society of Model Engineers) have been doing - getting the clubhouse rewired whilst most meetings are cancelled.

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Our club, of which I'm Hon. Treas. has been very against upping of subs. I did have the temerity to suggest that it be increased to €5 per month instead of the present €3. Under 18s pay €20 per year. I should have liked them to pay €3 per month. The premises are free as Hon. Pres. has created a layout room in his basement. What happens if there's a falling out .................. ?

 

In fairness when I then sent the begging bowl around, everyone stumped up - go figure!

 

We have already set out our stall, as it were, for 2021, starting with a weekend of modular fun combined with a swop-meet/bring'n'buy in late February. The local hall has been offered FOC so there shan't be any expenditure as such for the club. We will have tea and coffee/light refreshments available that'll bring in a few pounds. As the hall is FOC, entry will be free too, though a table charge will be made - again a few pounds to be made.

 

Restarting low key so that no losses will be incurred if we have to cancel due to C-19, but it'll be a bit of publicity to let people know we're still about if all goes well.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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We rent the building we use,  the subs were set when we had just about 10 members,  Now we have 30, luckily we voted last year not to reduce the subs. So the loss of income from the show is not a problem. 

In normal times anyone can go any time of day or day of the week ,  though the main club nights are Tuesday and Friday . At the moment we are running six person bubbles,  on allocated times and days. 

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47 minutes ago, Philou said:

Our club, of which I'm Hon. Treas. has been very against upping of subs. I did have the temerity to suggest that it be increased to €5 per month instead of the present €3. Under 18s pay €20 per year. I should have liked them to pay €3 per month. The premises are free as Hon. Pres. has created a layout room in his basement. What happens if there's a falling out .................. ?

 

In fairness when I then sent the begging bowl around, everyone stumped up - go figure!

 

I can think of a number of good reasons why members might be prepared to make a one-off(?) voluntary donation, rather than being made to pay an increase in subs which could end up being permanent - especially if you were looking for an increase of more than 50%.

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Ok so putting my cards on the table as it were, I'm not a member

of a club, so I'm not familiar with the fine detail of running one.

 

At the same time being outside of a situation can sometimes

give a different viewpoint; my first reaction on reading the OP

was that like many businesses and organisations,

the answer could be to base expenditure on income

rather than plan to spend, then look for income.

 

In other words if the money's not coming In,

don't plan to spend it.  Keep the club ticking over,

just pay out what has to be paid, and put any

unnecessary expenditure on hold until things improve.

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@RJS1977I know that our club is out in the sticks, pretty much rural and little industry, so jobs are not easily found and here in France, I find the pay is pretty low - just above minimum. Nonetheless, I did think that as the club is open three times weekly and free tea/coffee and soft drinks (provided by Hon. Sec.) is available, that €5 a month wasn't asking TOO much. They did all gasp a bit when I told them that UK clubs pay that a week, some even asking £10 pw.

 

Anyway, they are going to have to have a really hard think over what they want to do as they wanted to do a big show in October 2021 as it's the club's 21st anniversary (big show, lots of layouts and traders) but, BUT, BUT, I've told them that I can't make €500 (what we have) into €5000 (what we need to spend), there being no guarantee of any income.

 

They all like going to Freidrichshaffen to the annual show (local Warley if you will), but minibuses don't come cheap either. We'll see.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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We've been able to start using our club room. It's a self contained unit inside a larger building.

So long as we follow our local rules and regulations.

Many of our members are retired, so some "work parties" are able to get there during the day.

And we now have a virtual Zoom meeting one evening a week. Zoom is also used by some of the layout teams to discuss progress etc.

 

The rent is thankfully not excessive. It and the insurance is just about covered by the subs. But we're losing older and infirm members, so it will be a problem soon.

 

We have some reserves, but need to manage them carefully. 

 

Hence the desire to find/develop an income source to pay for layouts and stock.

 

Quite a tough problem at this time of Covid.

 

Regards David

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25 minutes ago, davidmcc3 said:

Hence the desire to find/develop an income source to pay for layouts and stock.

 

It strikes me that you are fortunate to be able to meet - many, including our club, can't.  But I truly don't understand the need for income to pay for more layouts and stock. What a 1st world problem!  Many have difficulty keeping a job and making ends meet.  If you want to develop a new layout, at this difficult time surely it's up to the club members to delve in their own pockets and contribute the money for any new work? 

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18 hours ago, rab said:

In other words if the money's not coming In, don't plan to spend it.  Keep the club ticking over, just pay out what has to be paid, and put any unnecessary expenditure on hold until things improve.

 

That's pretty much how I see things too.  In our club, member subscriptions generally cover our overheads (rent, electricity, water charges and insurance) and the income that we get from attending exhibitions and the sale of donations is normally used to fund new layouts, tools etc - the things which could be considered discretionary spending.  Obviously, we have lost the latter two income streams for the moment, but since the club isn't open (although bubbles of two is a possibility, Scottish Government restrictions preclude larger meetings), we're also not building new layouts and thus incurring these costs, so the priority is simply to be able to pay the bills so that the club is still around when things improve.  Our electricity bills are also lower.

 

1 hour ago, davidmcc3 said:

Hence the desire to find/develop an income source to pay for layouts and stock.

 

My own club owns virtually no stock.  What runs on our club layouts at exhibitions is almost exclusively owned by our members.  Club layouts are built based on the shared interests of a group of members, so in general, each layout that is built can be stocked by several different individuals and if a signature locomotive or type of rolling stock is required, one of the members will generally buy the required stock themselves.

 

It's only the layout (baseboards, track, wiring etc) that are paid for from club funds and the costs are spread over a number of years depending on our income.  I suggest that you'll need to either slow the rate at which you build layouts or ask the members to contribute more.

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Yes, that does seem a bit perverse. Surely this isn't the time to build a new layout, or if it is you fund it indepdently.


I agree that putting up subs is probably counterproductive - a rallying call to urge people not to cancel is one thing, but actually putting them up is likely to introduce a sharp intake of breath. A 'cards on the table' comment around needing additional funds to secure the continuing survival of the club maybe. But saying "we need more money to grow" right now...? No.

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We hire our club room on a weekly by the hour basis, if we don't use it we don't pay. We do not pay any subs and usually raise the club room rent from the show profits. Therefore at the moment we aren't losing or gaining, although in truth we have had  bequest of model railway kit which has appeared recently on flea bay, which if we have to cancel next years show as well as this years will see us well through another year when we are eventually allowed to meet.

 

I should add we have no club owned layouts, but virtually every member has their own exhibition layout, so there are no "extra" costs either. It works for us and not having any club layouts in name mean we can rent hourly. Works very well for us, just a shame we haven't met since March.

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On 04/10/2020 at 23:15, Philou said:

@RJS1977I know that our club is out in the sticks, pretty much rural and little industry, so jobs are not easily found and here in France, I find the pay is pretty low - just above minimum. Nonetheless, I did think that as the club is open three times weekly and free tea/coffee and soft drinks (provided by Hon. Sec.) is available, that €5 a month wasn't asking TOO much. They did all gasp a bit when I told them that UK clubs pay that a week, some even asking £10 pw.

 

Philip

 

For info the local club in west Wales is £15 per year plus £3 for each session you attend to cover tea/coffee/biscuits and hire of the village hall and hopefully leave a small surplus.

 

When I joined in 2015 we were averaging 10-12 attendees per club night and over 3 years (no thanks to me) that grew to 15-18, and the club surplus grew steadily and fairly painlessly.

 

Normal club nights are 7pm-10pm.  Sometimes we have a working session starting 2pm and going through to 10pm and people attend for what hours they can.  On those days it's still £3 for the session.  On occasions before a show and we need a gentle 3-line whip, it's free.

 

Perhaps some compromise on those lines might be more acceptable to your club though won't necessarily generate enough for auumn 2021?

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@njee20 I also agree and understand that raising subs can be counterproductive. My problem as Hon. Treas. is that our income from subs just covers our annual personal liability insurance (we've not got many members) and a tiny bit left over to cover materials (glue, paints and the like). Our club does also supply plywood and track to the younger members (at no extra cost to them) to allow to them to build their own modules (600 x 1200mm) so that once every so often, the modules come out and big display can be set up (think Freemo style). They at least can say 'I built that!' rather than having made a rather anonymous contribution to an exhibition layout - and I applaud that approach - but the cash has to come from somewhere.

 

I suppose at the end of the day, it'll be down to a bit of clever sell and getting the balance right.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

PS: Despite Covid, I was pleasantly surprised to see a new 11 year-old recruit this Saturday. He was building a half-timbered dwelling out of card and thin wood strip - he wasn't half bad either! Better than I was at his age!

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1 hour ago, Philou said:

@njee20 I also agree and understand that raising subs can be counterproductive. My problem as Hon. Treas. is that our income from subs just covers our annual personal liability insurance (we've not got many members) and a tiny bit left over to cover materials (glue, paints and the like). Our club does also supply plywood and track to the younger members (at no extra cost to them) to allow to them to build their own modules (600 x 1200mm) so that once every so often, the modules come out and big display can be set up (think Freemo style). They at least can say 'I built that!' rather than having made a rather anonymous contribution to an exhibition layout - and I applaud that approach - but the cash has to come from somewhere.

 

 

They can be counterproductive, especially if it happens too often or they are put up significantly.

If members are made aware of a good reason for costs to go up a little, then they are usually in favour.

If the accounts are kept secret then that is another matter.

Fees should always get mentioned at the AGM with the accounts & in most cases, they are frozen.

 

It seems that many clubs mentioned on here only pay for their time in the premises, so all club activity & therefore expenditure is frozen.

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We have always had an annual joining / renewal fee as well as a weekly sub. This was always enough to cover the basic running costs of the club - rent, electric and insurance. We held a small village hall show which brought in a few hundred pounds which was the layout fund, and then we were lucky to be invited by the City Council to start the big Derby show which with an initial attendance of around 5000 gave us sufficient surplus to start a building fund. Many years later, our rented building was put up for sale by the Council and we used our accumulated funds to buy it.

 

We continued with the same subs even though we no longer had rent, as we had many other expenses for building improvements and we gradually built up the building fund again. Now we find that our building has a limited life with a survey report advising us that there isn't imminent danger of collapse but we must start planning for a replacement or substantial repairs - it's a post war prefab concrete framed building. Now we find that Derby College who run the Roundhouse venue has cancelled all external events and so we have nowhere for our main fundraising event.

.

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@Mike Bellamy Over here as we're une Association under the law of 1901, and as we can ask for grants from the local authorities (Parish, Département (County) and Regional), our accounts have to be available to them annually, so there is no secret. This year, as things have been quiet, there's not been much movement in or out and there's the rub, the emphasis on the inward part.

 

The proposal to increase subs is raised bi-annually!

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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One of our problems is a falling membership - too many members in their late 70s.

 

This means we are beginning to have trouble hiring vans for the two biggest layouts. We're based in Fort Widley near Portsmouth, and it's a long hard climb from our rooms in the basement to the top, when loading for an exhibition. Hence the need for new (and younger members).

 

One idea I had was to start a new (much smaller!!) layout geared to the likes and expectations of the younger people. Club members probably don't have appropriate stock, so as well as the layout, there will need to be stock purchases. And this needs to be funded.

 

Still trying to think that one through.

 

Regards, David

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The club of which I am a member has recently worked out a protocol for re-opening. It has been fortunate in not having to pay hire charges for its premises when not meeting. With a financial year running for the calendar year and subs not requested before lockdown - the AGM having been scheduled for April - members are being requested to pay sufficient each, together with some other income, to cover hall hire for the first three months of the year, then an attendance fee for individual meetings for the last three months of this year. There will end up being some nibbling into reserves; the total paid for the year even by a member attending all this autumn's meetings will be significantly less than 50% of a normal year's subs.

 

The club has operated on the principle that, under normal circumstances, subs pay for the running costs and the two exhibitions per year pay for materials for layouts. Going forward, that's the element that will be squeezed, with the earliest exhibition being in a year's time.

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