Help to build my first layout

[30368]

Hi,

 

I am seeking some help to build my first layout, although that is not strictly true since I did have a shot at a layout of 70D shed 10 years or so ago but never completed it. My real interest is loco and rolling stock building rather than track laying. I am happy to do the scenic stuff but would like someone to lay the track, wire up points and supplies. It will be DC. I do have plywood baseboards already contructed. The overall size will be around (5m x 1.5m)x2, i.e. "L" shaped and it will be 00 gauge.

 

Why do I wish to take a short-cut? Well I am 73 and time is getting short to learn all the lessons of this aspect of our hobby so I am happy to pay someone with the skills and experience to avoid a legnthy learning curve.

 

In the next few months we will be moving to Buxton in Derbyshire so if anyone is interested in helping me directly or putting me in touch with someone who can I would be very grateful.

 

I have built all these lovely loco's (well they are to me) and would like somewhere to run them.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

[ISW]

1 hour ago, 30368 said:

Why do I wish to take a short-cut? Well I am 73 and time is getting short to learn all the lessons of this aspect of our hobby so I am happy to pay someone with the skills and experience to avoid a legnthy learning curve.

Richard,

 

Have you considered joining a local model railway club? Most wouldn't mind being roped in to help out with the tracklaying.

 

Ian

[30368]

Ian,

 

Many thanks and yes I will look into that as soon as we are in Buxton.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[ikcdab]

Where are you based exactly and what is your proposed trackplan?

[30368]

Hello Ian C,

 

Just had a quick look at your very major project looks rather splendid!

We are currently living between Salisbury and Shaftesbury but will move to Buxton as soon as house sale/purchase process is completed which given that there is no downward or upward chain should be around end November.

 

I wish to model Basingstoke engine shed in BR days. The shed would be the focus of the layout with the LSWR main line in the background with storage sidings at both ends if possible. I have no experience of running a loyout so am open to suggestions which would make operation a bit more interesting. Track plan is as prototype but clearely some simplification will be required. I have a large quantity of code 75 track and Peco live points and point motors.

 

 

The shed building is 90% complete and the coaling stage is complete. I also have a suitable powered turntable. As mentioned area available is 5m x 5m.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

[ikcdab]

Hi Richard,  it looks an  interesting project. I'm not sure what your skill sets are so I apologise if I say things you already know. 

I think the most important thing now is to get from your prptotype plan to a layout plan.  I use a laptop and coreldraw for all my planning, but pencil and paper still works. I'd stick several pieces of A3 together, and do a plan at 1:5. You can download peco point templates for free and photocopy them down to 1:5. Then draw it all up. That will show you what you can fit in without overcrowding. Or you could use Anyrail or similar.

You'll then want to draw on the baseboard outlines as I guess you need it to be portable. What I then did was to draw the wiring and switches. 

It's this design and planning work that takes the time. Once you have the design,  laying the track is the quick bit! 

I'm within a couple hours drive, so if you wanted to chat more it could be arranged.

Ian

[RJS1977]

It may also be worth getting in touch with the Basingstoke and North Hants model railway club (several members of which are on RMWeb), as IIRC they built a model of Basingstoke station (including the shed) some years ago, so they may be able to help you out on the research side (and as presumably you'll be using the same - or very similar - track plans, they may also be able to give you some guidance on how to wire it up!

[Harlequin]

Hi Richard,

There seem to be some inconsistencies in your plans...

• The prototype station is straight but your model space is L shaped.
• The bit of the prototype you are interested in, the shed area, is relatively simple and well-defined but the peripheral bit that you are less interested in, the passing lines, are complicated and extensive.
• To model the shed you only need storage space for locos but if you model the mainlines you seem to be thinking about mainline traffic, which will need much more storage.

I’m sure all these things can be resolved.

One idea might be to use just one leg of your L shaped space to model the shed area with simplified mainlines either in the foreground or background just as a non-working scenic element?

 

[30368]

Thanks so much for the suggestions and help offered.

Shortly we will go into house move "purdah" so no time to move this project forward (what time I have on MR will be devoted to building 4mm Great Northern) but as soon as we are settled I shall return! The first step will be to produce a working track plan incorporating your suggestions and power supplied etc indicated.

 

I will then submit this for your comments! Once again many thanks.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by 30368

[30368]

Hello.

 

We ahve now moved to Buxton and one of my son-in-law's helped me to erect the first two boards of the layout in my new hobby room. I need to carry out some trimming to the third board but at least I have made a start.

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

[The Johnster]

Old tables; good solid level boards but heavy and difficult to work with. 

 

The worrying part of your plan is the areas you don't show.  If this is to be an end to end layout, with trains running from one end to another past the shed and through the station, and we are thinking about 12 coach Atlantic Coast Expresses or Cunarder Pullmans belting along in the low 90s in 4mm, you will need a lot of space leading into the fiddle yards at each end,as they will effectively be the termini and need room for throats.   There are 4 running lines which each need their own fan of sidings at each end.  Basingstoke has no sharp curves, cuttings, or overbridges close to either end of the platforms to act as scenic breaks, and the run is fairly straight (you might consider Salisbury instead, another location with a busy shed visible from the running lines, but less traffic and a tunnel with bridges around a sharp curve at one end).

 

The obvious alternattive is for a tailchaser wiith one fiddle yard on the opposite side of the room, a tried and tested solution.  But you may not have a suitable site for this , and I do not recommend lift out sections, especially if stock has to be put out and removed again at the beginning and end of each running session.  I'm 5 years younger than you, so appreciate this issue, and you will get very tired of lifting things putting things out/away all the time.  But separate fiddle yards at each end are going to need a lot of work as well if you are to maintain a reasonable frequency of traffic passing your shed, as each train that is not an emu needs the loco turning and replacing at the right end after it has completed it's fy to fy run, and has to wait a realistic time before re-appearing in the other direction from Waterloo, Exeter, or wherever. 

 

I think what you want is to operate the loco shed, and change locos on passing trains occasionally, but have the passing traffic represented as well.  This is too much for a single operator, and you will need co-conspirators to run the main line or a continuous run with automation to achieve this.  I would prefer to see the shed in the foreground, with the running lines and their traffic in the background, as you will be able to take in the detail of the locos moving slowly around the shed better.  There is a limit to how much you can observe of a passing S15 rattling past at 60 with a fitted goods, never mind a Merchant Navy making up lost time at over 90! 

 

This is possible with enough operators; you will need to be at the shed panel and at least one man needs to be at each fiddle yard sending trains back and forth to each other, some of which will have to be driven to represent stopping at Basingstoke, a mail/parcels hub btw.  If there is station pilot work to be done, you probably need a fourth operator, and the fy men will get bored fairly quickly. 

 

It might be better to reduce your ambition and only operate the loco shed, the background main line and signalling being entirely scenic.  Maybe there could be a compromise with shuttling emus back and forth  on running lines, and an occasional loco hauled train when things go quiet on the shed (mid afternoon/early evening)  or when you've got the manpower for it, but the usual running being just you at the shed control panel.  You could have a timetable demanding departures and arrivals from the shed to various running roads to increase variety, and running it to real time will give purpose and meaning to the shed movements, which could be pretty absorbing!  Throw in a points failure on one of the access shunts and you are going to find things properly challenging.

Edited December 18, 2020 by The Johnster

[30368]

17 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Old tables; good solid level boards but heavy and difficult to work with. 

 

 

Hello Johnster,

 

Thanks very much for taking the trouble to provide such useful advice regarding operational design assumptions. I am truly thankful.

 

Since I have around 150 loco's, including those that I have built, you are quite correct that my main interest is the operations around the shed. The main line becoming a background to this so your assumptions and suggestions are well received. Whilst the shed will be based on Basingtoke (It is built anyway) the station will be a freelance ex LSWR wayside station served by a stopping service to Salisbury and Exeter.

 

Incidently,the boards are not doors but plywood tops with deal framing designed for my garage at our previous house so a bit of adjusting required but I will end up with a "U" shaped layout.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by 30368

[The Johnster]

If the running lines are to be based on the Salisbury-Exeter secion, you only need an up and down main, not the 4 track layout shown in the plan, which will ease matters a little and demand a less frequent service to look like a reasonably busy main line; I strongly suggest this would be a good way to go!   A U shape with the shed in one of the corners sounds feasible, but if the boards are backed by walls it will be difficult to reach, and at our age we don't want duckunders.  This means some fairly tight curves if the shed is to be on the near side of the boards and in the 'base' of the U.  How about having the station on the base of the U, and a fairly large fiddle yard on the non-shed end leg.  The shed of course goes to the other end leg, and once the necessary turnouts are in place, perhaps still on the curve off the U base, the running lines can feed to hidden headshunts behind the shed, which feed back by a hidden line to the main fy. 

 

So, a train running from the main fy passes the shed entrance, perhaps stopping in the station on the way, and dissappears behind the shed onto the headshunt fy, then reverses behind the scenes back to the main fy.  In the opposite directrion, a train will reverse out of the main fy, run behind the scene to the small headshunt fy, ready to run past the shed and station back to the main fy.  Less handling of locos as trains on the running lines can be in permanent rakes with the locos attached.  It might be possible to at least partly automate the reversing movements between fiddle yards; despite your DC affiliation, DCC Concepts provide shuttle and auto stop kit to enable this  To increase interest, perhaps a small goods yard or dairy (it is dairy country down there after all!) in front of the main fy if there's room. 

 

I sort of want there to be a branch line, junction perhaps off-scene, as there seems little reason for establishing a loco shed in such a location otherwise.  The shed provides locos for the branch, anything but Adams Radials as this means you have to model the junction for the Lyme Regis branch, and some main line locos to work through traffic off the branch.  Let's say that it developed into a larger facility than was needed for that as a result of being a loco change point, as Templecombe was in the early 1900s, and that this sort of working has continued into BR days,

 

I can't help thinking of Okehampton, too far west for you but almost designed to be modelled on baseboards around a room, cut into the Dartmoor espcarpment as it is.   It was (still is, just) a two road through station with a variety of 'withered arm' routes terminating, and had a shed with a big turntable as well as a goods yard.  That sort of scenario.

 

This sounds like an interesting project, Richard; keep us informed and show us pictures when it's finished!

[30368]

Thanks again, it so happens that my conclusion following your first response was:

 

1. Shed located on the one half of the U with scenic background to hide FY for "main line" with connections to shed

2. Country station in centre (shortest) section which would be two track and offer pick-up good service and stopping passenger

3. large FY in other leg of th U.

 

That is very close to your suggestions contained in the second response.

There will be space to get at both sides of the boards which will be essential for operation of both FY. And I am fortunate in being very fit and flexible for my age so ducking under is no problem...yet...

 

I have a nice selection of ex SR 0-6-0's including a number of 700 class as well M7's etc. I also have plenty of S15's including two Urie examples as well as five H15's one of each variety all of which worked on the West of England line.

My range of loco's are designed to allow me to populate "Basingstoke" shed with appropriate locomotives for the whole of the BR period, including an N15X.

 

Will update this thread with progress.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

 

[RJS1977]

Can you confirm what the dimensions of your baseboards are? Your original post said two 5m x 1.5m boards in an L-shape, but they don't look that big in the photos.

 

I might have a play around in SCARM and see what I can suggest.

[30368]

Hi RJS,

 

You are correct they are not  that large, the room is 5m X 5m.

 

I have prepared a rough drawing to scale.

I have left space behind each board for access. The 1.5 x 1.13m board is actually 2.4 x 1.13 but it will ahve to be shortened else I will have no room for my office/workshop. It could be extended another coach legnth or two but I would rather not. My plan is to locate the wayside station on the middle board and the shed on the longest board. The 1.5m board will be a FY.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

[RJS1977]

Richard - thanks for this.

 

There appears to be a missing dimension - how wide is the top board front-back?

 

Also be aware that reaching across a 1.2m baseboard is not easy. 

[The Johnster]

He doesn't have to reach across 1.2m, as the layout is free standing, not backed up to a wall, and access can be made all around.  So the reach only needs  to be 0.6m, which is much more manageable.  The plan is to scale, 2 squares' sides = 1m, so the top board is 1m wide front to back.  The proportions are odd, short fat rather than long thin boards, and there is really no room for scale length trains on the running lines, no 60 van overnight express goods ratttling through behind S15s, and trains will have to be shortened but can still represent typical workings.  The purpose of the layout is to highlight the shed and it's operations, so an occasional pass on the main line will be sufficient.

 

 

[Harlequin]

Hi Richard,

Are you open to suggestions for alternative baseboard arrangements that might allow you to make better use of the space and an easier track plan?

If so, could you post a drawing of the room plan with dimensions and door and window positions?

 

[30368]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

 

Phil,

The room is 5m x 5m with a door in one corner and is located in the top left hand corner of the plan. Ther are two windows, 1 of 80 cm width located at the apex of the lower board, i.e. 0.8m from the apex along the 1.5m board. There is a second window providing light to my workbench so no basboards in that area. As the Johnster has suggested, my real interest is the operation around the shed with some train running. It is a big compromise I know, but since re-starting railway modelling about eight years ago my man interest has been, and remains, loco building but I would like to see the fruits of my labour running on a layout.

 

Please keep the suggestions coming. I plan to start track laying after Christmas.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[RJS1977]

Looking at the board plan again - you will gain space in the bottom fiddle yard if you can use either a traverser, a train turntable or some variation on a Denny fiddle yard there. However this will require the final baseboard to be at a lower level than the others so that the fiddle yard itself sits on the baseboard, with its rail height level with the rail level of the other baseboard. The advantage of a Denny fiddle yard is that you can essentially leave it alone most of the time and just turn it round when it's full ready to start again.

 

I've got an 'interesting' idea for the other end - I'd better get sketching!

 

[RJS1977]

Well, this is what I've come up with so far. Maybe not quite what you're after as the main line doesn't actually pass the shed, but it's been an interesting evening anyway!

 

 

Although I've drawn the loco shed in full, I'd envisage it being modelled with the roof off (as many sheds were in the post-War era), and the windows filthy. That way it would still conceal its secrets when viewed from a sitting position but the trains would be accessible for uncoupling when standing. The shed is approx 130cm long, which experience with my own layout suggests could be long enough for a 4-6-0 and four coaches.

 

The other fiddle yard, as previously suggested, can be pulled away  from the main lines and reversed, so turning all four trains round in one go. It's a little longer than the fiddle yard at the other end, so maybe I can do some rebalancing.

 

A train would leave that fiddle yard, set out along the main line, disappear behind the signal box and finish up in the loco shed, allowing another train to make the opposite movement. The loco off the first train would be uncoupled and, after an appropriate interval, run on to the turntable and head for the coaling stage. Another loco from the depot would run up to the main line and then reverse behind the signalbox to couple on to the coaches from the first train, ready to take it back to the fiddle yard once another train had passed from the other end. And so on until the bottom fiddle yard is full of trains facing the wrong way. Turn it round, and off you go again!

 

The only other point on the plan with which I'm not yet completely happy is the way the coaling stage feeds off the turntable, meaning all locos have to visit the table twice. Again, I'll have to have another play to see if I can improve on it.

[30368]

Thanks so much RJS, some good ideas. My loco shed is much smaller - 70D was a fairly short around 165ft long and only three roads - so I can sqeeze it in at the base of the large top board and have room for some running lines and hidden sidings.

I have just laid the first section of track the two sidings to the north of the shed building. This area located the original smaller turntable that was replaced in the 1930s (?) by a larger table to the west of the shed.

 

Shed roof helps to position sidings and double slip.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[30368]

Not a lot of progress - occupied with moving/building/moving furniture given the move. Have though been granted some leave and have been able to cut out the three inspection pits in shed.

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[30368]

Ash and inspection pits all dug. Lets hope that the Standard 4 2-6-0 can get back out onto the mainline soon!

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B