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North End Road - WCML in N


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I keep popping in from time to time. 

 

You can already tell how good this layout is going to look and how it captures the vibe of the WCML in an urban setting. 

 

The retaining wall and backscene look superb - shames me into thinking I should do more on my layout.

 

Enjoy. 

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17 hours ago, DavidMcKenzie said:

 

581190228_20210314_204001_HDR2.jpg.f4960683d79f88e4357c44320e115f59.jpg

 

Like your choice of wiring connector: I’ve got boxes of the 222 variety.

How have you fastened them to the board please?

Thanks, Paul.

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Hi,

 

Can I ask what you used for the foliage above the retaining wall please?  It gives good cover and I'm looking for something very similar at Gleneagles.

 

Thanks

 

Claggy

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Hi Dave

 

I've very much enjoyed reading through your thread, particularly since I'm planning a WCML-based layout of roughly similar size to North End Road. If I could ask a couple of questions:

 

  • What do you use for layout supports? Do those two tables serve for that (I've seen this at exhibitions, although mainly for very small layouts that sit on a single camping table) or do you have trestles, or legs built into the baseboards?
  • How do you get the four tracks at each end into the hidden sidings? Do you have separate sidings for each line, or do the tracks go down from four to two as soon as they're out of sight, or what?

 

Anyway, looking good, especially the retaining wall: I'm not usually a fan of the "retaining wall with street scene above" but you've captured the appearance of the civil engineering just north of Euston very nicely and the foliage screening the buildings behind works well, too. 

 

Jim

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On 16/03/2021 at 17:07, 9C85 said:

I keep popping in from time to time. 

 

You can already tell how good this layout is going to look and how it captures the vibe of the WCML in an urban setting. 

 

The retaining wall and backscene look superb - shames me into thinking I should do more on my layout.

 

Enjoy. 

 

Thanks for the kind comments, I hope the end result is not going to let you down, but it's been very enjoyable to build so far and a big change from my last attempt at a layout. 

 

On 17/03/2021 at 09:35, 5BarVT said:

Like your choice of wiring connector: I’ve got boxes of the 222 variety.

How have you fastened them to the board please?

Thanks, Paul.

 

Hi Paul, nothing complicated, just a drop of super glue. Seems to work just fine. I guess time will be the ultimate test, but non of them have fallen off so far. 

 

On 17/03/2021 at 21:42, Clagmeister said:

Hi,

 

Can I ask what you used for the foliage above the retaining wall please?  It gives good cover and I'm looking for something very similar at Gleneagles.

 

Thanks

 

Claggy

 

Hi Claggy, it's mainly woodland scenics "fine leaf foliage" in olive green. But there are a mix of other scatter materials from different companies in the mix as well to get as close as possible to the real thing and a natural look where it's often a mix of different foliage/colours. I've tried to make the colours similar and the difference between them subtle so that it works as a background and doesn't draw the eye too far from the foreground and the railway. For the bits on the retaining wall itself it's mainly woodlands scenics "light green foliage". Hopefully that's helpful, but if want any other info let me know. 

 

On 18/03/2021 at 19:14, Jim Martin said:

Hi Dave

 

I've very much enjoyed reading through your thread, particularly since I'm planning a WCML-based layout of roughly similar size to North End Road. If I could ask a couple of questions:

 

  • What do you use for layout supports? Do those two tables serve for that (I've seen this at exhibitions, although mainly for very small layouts that sit on a single camping table) or do you have trestles, or legs built into the baseboards?
  • How do you get the four tracks at each end into the hidden sidings? Do you have separate sidings for each line, or do the tracks go down from four to two as soon as they're out of sight, or what?

 

Anyway, looking good, especially the retaining wall: I'm not usually a fan of the "retaining wall with street scene above" but you've captured the appearance of the civil engineering just north of Euston very nicely and the foliage screening the buildings behind works well, too. 

 

Jim

 

Hi Jim, 

 

I will look forward to following your progress with your layout, how far along is it? Will you base it on any specific section of the wcml? 

 

I am afraid your questions are hard to answer, I am between houses in (very small) rented accommodation at the moment and although we have a new house, we will only be moving in a year or so once renovations finished. For now I am working on the scenic section only. For this the solution of supporting it on the two tables is working just fine, but I suspect long term I will build something more permanent (possibly based on how well the layout turns out and if it needs to be transported to shows or not). Once I am moved into the new house I will work out how big the fiddle yard can be based on space available, but I think it will be 4 loops, each with a 4 or 5 lane fiddle yard which will allow somewhere between 16 and 20 trains on the mainlines. I don't actually have enough stock yet, but the rate Revolution are releasing such interesting new WCML stock, along with some interesting planned releases or re-release from Farish and Dapol I am sure it won't be long before it is not big enough. 

 

All the best,

Dave

Edited by DavidMcKenzie
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Hi David 

 

Like the mock up of the station building. One question how will the building be supported over the bay platforms?

 

Two possible solutions:

 

A) Remove part of the retaining wall and replace with a new concrete wall.

B) Raise the building up a bit so that it extends over the wall and is supported by columns into the bank beyond the wall.

 

Regards 

 

Nick 

 

 

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Hi Dave it's starting to look awesome with the scene you have set. 

Just unsure about the transit van sat on top of the building in the back scene. 

Keep up the good work fella 

 

Phil 

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1 hour ago, porkie said:

Hi Dave it's starting to look awesome with the scene you have set. 

Just unsure about the transit van sat on top of the building in the back scene. 

Keep up the good work fella 

 

Phil 


Could be a good promotional item for the local van rental establishment!

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On 21/03/2021 at 17:42, DavidMcKenzie said:

 

Hi Jim, 

 

I will look forward to following your progress with your layout, how far along is it? Will you base it on any specific section of the wcml? 

 

I am afraid your questions are hard to answer, I am between houses in (very small) rented accommodation at the moment and although we have a new house, we will only be moving in a year or so once renovations finished. For now I am working on the scenic section only. For this the solution of supporting it on the two tables is working just fine, but I suspect long term I will build something more permanent (possibly based on how well the layout turns out and if it needs to be transported to shows or not). Once I am moved into the new house I will work out how big the fiddle yard can be based on space available, but I think it will be 4 loops, each with a 4 or 5 lane fiddle yard which will allow somewhere between 16 and 20 trains on the mainlines. I don't actually have enough stock yet, but the rate Revolution are releasing such interesting new WCML stock, along with some interesting planned releases or re-release from Farish and Dapol I am sure it won't be long before it is not big enough. 

 

All the best,

Dave

 

Hi Dave 

 

I had been planning a layout based on Windsor Bridge Junction - at the south end of Salford Crescent station - but translated to a fictional loop off the WCML in South Lancashire. Just recently I've decided to build a very plain layout based on the line immediately south of Acton Bridge: one set of points in the scenic area, where the down fast and slow merge. It'll be something to practice scenic techniques, track building etc. and to see stuff running.

 

I'm hoping to start on the baseboards quite soon. My domestic arrangements dictate a number of very small boards - probably 3'x18" - joined in two dimensions. My history of precision woodworking isn't great, so I may have them professionally made.

 

You're making good progress: your station building is reminiscent of the building across the WCML that's visible from the Chiltern line just north of Wembley Central.

 

Jim

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 24/03/2021 at 22:43, stivesnick said:

Hi David 

 

Like the mock up of the station building. One question how will the building be supported over the bay platforms?

 

Two possible solutions:

 

A) Remove part of the retaining wall and replace with a new concrete wall.

B) Raise the building up a bit so that it extends over the wall and is supported by columns into the bank beyond the wall.

 

Regards 

 

Nick 

 

 

Hi Nick,

 

Great spot, I've put some thought into this and with the goal of

 

a. Not making something that's overly complex to model

b. Something that will pass as realistic enough to provide a plausible background

c. Something that will be low enough to be dark inside and hide the fact that the station is not actually that deep and disappears off into a fiddle yard

 

I was thinking about doing a mix of a concrete band which gives the roof the structural support, similar to the picture below from Birmingham New Street. Just above left of the loco you can see how the concrete and the retaining wall come together. 

 

1999-09-05 - 47816 arrives at Birmingham New Street on an unidentified cross-country working. P9050001

 

 

That basic structure would then combine (with some artistic license) with a similar style roof to Euston with cladding both above and below the concrete strip as shown below

 

Class 90s at Euston

 

 

It might not stand upto a detailed analysis from a structural engineer, but it should be realistic enough to not distract too much attention from the trains and give a nice backdrop. 

 

On 25/03/2021 at 17:01, porkie said:

Hi Dave it's starting to look awesome with the scene you have set. 

Just unsure about the transit van sat on top of the building in the back scene. 

Keep up the good work fella 

 

Phil 

 

Haha I didn't even notice that was in the background of the photo until I read your comment Phil, I always keep a few things like a trusty white transit van around to give me a feeling for scale. I've too often got to the end of a little section of modelling and been happy with the result until I realize I've made it either way too big, or way too small. 

 

On 25/03/2021 at 23:11, branchie said:

That mug is going to be a problem when running trains! 

 

It sure is! If I put a train size hole in the mug I can run trains, but then it won't work so well as a mug anymore :lol:. Guess it'll have to find another home somewhere :).

 

On 31/03/2021 at 03:52, Jim Martin said:

 

Hi Dave 

 

I had been planning a layout based on Windsor Bridge Junction - at the south end of Salford Crescent station - but translated to a fictional loop off the WCML in South Lancashire. Just recently I've decided to build a very plain layout based on the line immediately south of Acton Bridge: one set of points in the scenic area, where the down fast and slow merge. It'll be something to practice scenic techniques, track building etc. and to see stuff running.

 

I'm hoping to start on the baseboards quite soon. My domestic arrangements dictate a number of very small boards - probably 3'x18" - joined in two dimensions. My history of precision woodworking isn't great, so I may have them professionally made.

 

You're making good progress: your station building is reminiscent of the building across the WCML that's visible from the Chiltern line just north of Wembley Central.

 

Jim

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That sounds like some brilliant ideas for layouts there Jim, will you be posting progress online anywhere? I'd enjoy following your progress if you do. 

 

All the best,

Dave

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A rainy Easter Monday allowed a little more progress on the station. The base for the roof is a little more secure as a structure, although still very rough this should give a solid base to add some detailing to. The platforms have also started to take shape with the end ramps added and some trunking to where signals will eventually stand has been put in. In the foreground the cardboard wall behind the two white vans will eventually be a brick wall. 

 

20210405_222128_HDR.jpg.fec9ae9f3d4736d32d8a4f1072175ef8.jpg

 

20210405_222115_HDR.jpg.1a222733343f7e323f9e27f790b4caf8.jpg

 

All the best,

Dave

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With the poor weather over the last week there has been a bit of free time to get a signal done (a non working nbrsss kit) and a bit of detailing onto the platforms with drain covers added. 

 

1466558259_20210407_205843_HDR2.jpg.8ae0ff0d538e239af9a89f83a43a1b3c.jpg

 

1781785838_20210407_182141_HDR2.jpg.d2770133888a1ccfc1cd049182905552.jpg

 

671532474_20210407_181255_HDR2.jpg.c53e2bedef02b931475e0ebe8b29e150.jpg

 

All the best,

Dave

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Looks fantastic!

 

The Finetrax turnouts look great - I’ve loosely assembled an EV15 on my desk, and found the curved stock rail pulls away from the slide baseplate, where the switch rail is, as there’s no inner lug to hold it. Not sure if it’ll benefit from (and would be possible to) somehow glue the rail to the baseplate. It may be that once laid and everything is taut it’ll not be an issue!

 

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On 08/04/2021 at 23:54, njee20 said:

Looks fantastic!

 

The Finetrax turnouts look great - I’ve loosely assembled an EV15 on my desk, and found the curved stock rail pulls away from the slide baseplate, where the switch rail is, as there’s no inner lug to hold it. Not sure if it’ll benefit from (and would be possible to) somehow glue the rail to the baseplate. It may be that once laid and everything is taut it’ll not be an issue!

 

I found a tiny dab of super glue helped to hold it in place during assembly and it all seemed to settle down once the things were laid out on the layout. Sounds like the start of a layout, do you have something planned?

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2 hours ago, DavidMcKenzie said:

I found a tiny dab of super glue helped to hold it in place during assembly and it all seemed to settle down once the things were laid out on the layout. Sounds like the start of a layout, do you have something planned?

Thank you, I did wonder about that. I do… it may even break cover once life stops getting in the way and I build the first board!

 

Plenty of CAD work being done, I’ll be 3D printing much of it! Bit of a clue from the WIP station building ;)
 

45D8DB75-E083-444F-9FB1-5BC7CBF64A79.jpeg.11332a155a7bf2060f09bb65f92f0440.jpeg
 

love the signal gantry, that’s superb.  

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5 hours ago, DavidMcKenzie said:

I am by no means a signal expert, if anyone notices anything that is obviously wrong don't hesitate to say. Although the model is not based on anywhere specifically, I've tried to find prototype photos as the basis for what I've done so far. 

20210410_182208_HDR.jpg.1e2c7178ba945008fbed09678eb8e61b.jpg

 

And something left over from maid's morton for the fast down. 

 

All the best,

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

Looking good as ever.  To be prototypically correct, I think that four aspect signal in front of the NSE DMU should be further down the platform, so that something can stop in the platform and still allow the crossover to be used.  Now its your layout, and you work it as you want(!) there could be a case to be made whereby the crossover is emergency over and controlled from a groundframe, meaning that any use would be few and far between, but if you are planning on regular moves from the branch across to the nearest line, then it should be a good coach and a half to two coach lengths down the platform, and positioned well clear of the crossover.

 

In reality there would be the signal, then a clearing point (the distance between the signal and the point) but given the size of your station and the model to get that accurate would likely loose you too much.

 

Rich

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19 hours ago, njee20 said:

Thank you, I did wonder about that. I do… it may even break cover once life stops getting in the way and I build the first board!

 

Plenty of CAD work being done, I’ll be 3D printing much of it! Bit of a clue from the WIP station building ;)
 

45D8DB75-E083-444F-9FB1-5BC7CBF64A79.jpeg.11332a155a7bf2060f09bb65f92f0440.jpeg
 

love the signal gantry, that’s superb.  

Ah wow. That really would be something. A very nice choice. All sorts of wonderful options for running interest. I don't know which era you were thinking about, but I have very much enjoyed this series of videos on YouTube. 

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iOkixfcgiYw

 

15 hours ago, MarshLane said:

 

Hi Dave,

Looking good as ever.  To be prototypically correct, I think that four aspect signal in front of the NSE DMU should be further down the platform, so that something can stop in the platform and still allow the crossover to be used.  Now its your layout, and you work it as you want(!) there could be a case to be made whereby the crossover is emergency over and controlled from a groundframe, meaning that any use would be few and far between, but if you are planning on regular moves from the branch across to the nearest line, then it should be a good coach and a half to two coach lengths down the platform, and positioned well clear of the crossover.

 

In reality there would be the signal, then a clearing point (the distance between the signal and the point) but given the size of your station and the model to get that accurate would likely loose you too much.

 

Rich

 

What a brilliant observation Rich, thanks. As I read it I realized the mistake straight away. I even have the NSE 101 sitting held at the signal on the points:lol:. I am not sure if I will be able to get it perfect due to space constraints, but does something like this look a bit better? I've brought it up parallel to the other 4 aspect signal. 

 

260996039_20210411_154934_HDR2.jpg.b79774c906c8b06cd1ad1c615ee9007e.jpg

 

1940679150_20210411_155007_HDR2.jpg.351c8bfdc6630622d1fde2d2858fc97d.jpg

 

All the best,

Dave

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Hi Dave,

I am no expert on signal overlaps, maybe @Jon Fitness could comment on whether it is accurate or not.  From a modelling perspective, if you wanted to get more of the train in the visual area when stopped at the platform, I think you could halve the distance between where it was and where it is now, and still be more than passable.

 

To give some perspective the overlap is a 'safe distance' beyond the train without conflicting with other movements, on four-aspect signalling I recall this is around 220 yards, or a scale 8ft!  Very few modellers can accurately model that without loosing too much layout, so it is one of those compromise areas.

 

Rich

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Alleged signalling expert here!

I had also thought that you could get more train visible if you wanted to.  Back in the 60s a signal could be as little as 6' from the toes of the facing points, so your signal at the top of the ramp could move forwards if you want.  By the time signals looked like your models (90s) it was preferred to have the signal 5-20m back from that (sorry for the mixed units, I'm ambidextrous that way).

The signal on the other road that you have just moved back needs to be clear of the points.  Even today, that equates to roughly opposite the toes of the point on the adjacent line.  These days, signals tend to be parallel much more than in the past so both would be tweaked to get the best position for the pair. So where you have them is fine, but if you want more train visible, push them both forward to about 35mm from the toes of the facing points.

On to overlaps, 200 yards or 180m is the 'standard', but can be reduced depending in speed.  However, in a situation like yours, the overlaps would be pushed forwards through the points to maximise platform availability.  All that would mean (in real life) is that you couldn't run up to the left hand signal while a train was using the crossover ahead of it.  For your model, try to remember not to (if you're that bothered) and when you forget, lots of folk won't know anyway!

Hope that helps,

Paul. 

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4 hours ago, DavidMcKenzie said:

Ah wow. That really would be something. A very nice choice. All sorts of wonderful options for running interest. I don't know which era you were thinking about, but I have very much enjoyed this series of videos on YouTube. 

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iOkixfcgiYw

 

I don’t want to keep hijacking your thread, but yes, hopefully my reality will match (or at least not completely destroy) my ambition! Afraid it’s post-2010, after the remodelling. Hopefully do it some semblance of justice, some liberal interpretations of the freight flows for a bit of diversity, but should be plenty of interest!

 

The code 40 trackwork really looks the part, definitely vindicates my decision! For me the pointwork is what really does it, being concrete bearer and just a far more prototypical length! Shall enjoy watching yours continue to unfold!

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On 11/04/2021 at 19:36, 5BarVT said:

Alleged signalling expert here!

I had also thought that you could get more train visible if you wanted to.  Back in the 60s a signal could be as little as 6' from the toes of the facing points, so your signal at the top of the ramp could move forwards if you want.  By the time signals looked like your models (90s) it was preferred to have the signal 5-20m back from that (sorry for the mixed units, I'm ambidextrous that way).

The signal on the other road that you have just moved back needs to be clear of the points.  Even today, that equates to roughly opposite the toes of the point on the adjacent line.  These days, signals tend to be parallel much more than in the past so both would be tweaked to get the best position for the pair. So where you have them is fine, but if you want more train visible, push them both forward to about 35mm from the toes of the facing points.

On to overlaps, 200 yards or 180m is the 'standard', but can be reduced depending in speed.  However, in a situation like yours, the overlaps would be pushed forwards through the points to maximise platform availability.  All that would mean (in real life) is that you couldn't run up to the left hand signal while a train was using the crossover ahead of it.  For your model, try to remember not to (if you're that bothered) and when you forget, lots of folk won't know anyway!

Hope that helps,

Paul. 

 

Hi Paul,

 

All sorts of brilliant information there, all very useful and very interesting. I think I will leave them as they are. Part of me was thinking how nice it would be to have as much train visible as possible, but in the end once the thing runs along the layout you'll see it all at some point anyway. 

 

One question (sorry I really am a beginner with all this), when you talk about overlap what exactly is that? 

 

On 11/04/2021 at 20:44, njee20 said:

I don’t want to keep hijacking your thread, but yes, hopefully my reality will match (or at least not completely destroy) my ambition! Afraid it’s post-2010, after the remodelling. Hopefully do it some semblance of justice, some liberal interpretations of the freight flows for a bit of diversity, but should be plenty of interest!

 

The code 40 trackwork really looks the part, definitely vindicates my decision! For me the pointwork is what really does it, being concrete bearer and just a far more prototypical length! Shall enjoy watching yours continue to unfold!

 

No need to apologize for modelling post 2010, as an engineer, environmentalist (of the more realistic verity rather than the extremists) and a railway enthusiast I am a huge fan of the modern railways. I think in most aspects they are an improvement and hopefully that improvement continues. The only reason that the mid 90s is my choice of modelling period is because I was 10 years old in 1996 - 1997 and you just can't beat that excitement a 10 year old can have later on on life, so I guess the mid 90s are nostalgic for me. Sounds like a brilliant project you are scheming! 

 

All the best,

Dave

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