Unidentified Luton Private Owner at Hatfield 1937 (on a train to Luton LNER)

[Rail-Online]

Hi,

Here is a complete train made up entirely of POs going to Luton from the GN main line in 1937. I believe the Vauxhall factory was served by this branch so some could be destined for their works. The first wagon is interesting as it is new to me.  The second is the well know POP (Peale Oliver Peake) and the third I believe Milner Thomas of London, colliery agents for a couple of Nottingham collieries.

If anyone can identify that first wagon No 51 based at Luton I would be very interested

 

 

Cheers Tony 

[Steamport Southport]

Looks like GODxxx & something

 

GODLEY? *

 

Possibly GODDARD

 

 

 

*but not & CREME for 1970s music fans

 

 

Jason

[corneliuslundie]

Any help? stretched in Gimp:

 

But someone got there first:

https://www.hattons.co.uk/552117/dapol_be4dapol_po_godden_rudd_5_plank_wagon_1e_promotionals_special_edition_pre_owned_/stockdetail.aspx

Jonathan

Edited October 6, 2020 by corneliuslundie

[Rail-Online]

That is clever!  Thanks again. I wonder if the red oxide body colour of the RTR model is correct (there is not much about the actual wagon that is) ........

 

Cheers Tony

[Compound2632]

It has the distinctive V hanger of a Gloucester RC&W Co. wagon - ends not bent vertical - though other builders may have used similar. However, the fact that there's been a commercially-produced model suggests the existence of a photo, which again suggests Gloucester. No match in the HMRS photo collection, though, or the Lightmoor Index. 

 

The lettering is certainly shaded - it doesn't sit on the bottom of a plank, instead, the shading does - and I think one can make it out anyway. Though whether it's white shaded black on grey or red, or white shaded red on black, I don't think one could say from the photo. 

 

Possibly a Gloucester builder's plate to the left of the V-hanger; registration plate between the arms of the V-hanger.

[petethemole]

It's not in Motague's GRCW wagon book.

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, petethemole said:

It's not in Motague's GRCW wagon book.

 

But many aren't.

[Tim V]

It's in MRN September 1963, according to Leleux.

[Tim V]

Just checked - I have that magazine! It's a drawing, Peter Matthews states red oxide, black lettering.

[Compound2632]

Just now, Tim V said:

Just checked - I have that magazine! It's a drawing, Peter Matthews states red oxide, black lettering.

 

Dimensions? Is it indeed a Gloucester wagon?

[Tim V]

Sorry, the drawing is an outline only, with details of the lettering. Copyright would prohibit me from posting. Details of the builder are not shown. 16'6" over headstocks, 9' weelbase. 

[Tim V]

The Dapol model looks like a copy of the diagram, same lettering and number.

[Ravenser]

Godden & Rudd, Luton coal merchants

 

A member of the family, Mike Rudd , used to be an MRC member - I think he died a couple of years ago

[Compound2632]

9 hours ago, Tim V said:

Sorry, the drawing is an outline only, with details of the lettering. Copyright would prohibit me from posting. Details of the builder are not shown. 16'6" over headstocks, 9' weelbase. 

 

Not sure I believe that length, looking at the photo. 15'6" at most, I'd say. I'm not convinced one could scale off a Peter Matthews sketch with any confidence although of course No. 10 could easily have been from a different builder. 

[Tim V]

12 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Not sure I believe that length, looking at the photo. 15'6" at most, I'd say. I'm not convinced one could scale off a Peter Matthews sketch with any confidence although of course No. 10 could easily have been from a different builder. 

You may be right. However, the other three drawings in the same article are 15'6", 16'6" and 16'. If he was using a 'generic' drawing and filling in the lettering all the drawings would be the same, and then I 'might' agree.

[Compound2632]

Just now, Tim V said:

You may be right. However, the other three drawings in the same article are 15'6", 16'6" and 16'. If he was using a 'generic' drawing and filling in the lettering all the drawings would be the same, and then I 'might' agree.

Then I will assert that No. 51 was not from the same builder, or at least not built to the same dimensions, as No. 10. It's probably older, despite its number - it could have been on hire to other firms before being hired out to Godden & Rudd. I'd also say then that the livery recorded for No. 10 is not absolute proof of the livery of No. 51!

[5D_Stoke]

I thought that wagon looked familiar. Quite a few years ago I drew these sides to use with Mainly Trains etched brass ironwork and Peco wagon bodies (or my similar home made resin casting) to make Godden & Rudd wagons. The attached file was printed in colour as a 6x4in print, plank lines lightly scored, and then the body parts cut out and the Mainly Trains brass, largely pre-painted black, were carefully glued on top. Then the solebar, headstocks etc were painted to match and the black touched up, with a weathering wash that filled in the scored plank lines. It sounds laborious but a decent result could represent unobtainable PO liveries, on a realistic length body at a time when the majority of PO wagons were very inaccurate. Don't think I ever finished any Godden & Rudd ones because the intended layout never got off the drawing board but the second pic is of one of several I did complete on a Cambrian or Slaters underframe. The other plus was that, as every railway modeller knows, if you spend hours making a model by hand, very soon a manufacturer will produce a ready-to-run version. :-) 

Edited October 13, 2020 by 5D_Stoke