KR Models announce the Consett Iron Ore Wagon

[KR Models]

On 14/12/2020 at 10:59, Markwj said:

I would like to see how a rake of these copes on curves the couplings don’t look long enough and there could be buffer locking!  I am sure that’s an easy fix for KR models following I am sure almost destructive testing of the sample to make sure all is correct. We seem to have got to engineering sample from announcement very quickly which is good to see too.

 

This was the first thing we noticed.  This is why we do track testing.

Edited December 17, 2020 by KR Models

[Markwj]

3 hours ago, KR Models said:

 

This was the first thing we noticed.  This is why we do track testing.

I knew you would have noted and as I said it’s probably an easy fix but just out of interest do you only have 1 sample -how do you determine how a rake would function or can you glean that information just running with stock from any other manufacturer?

 

Edit just seen the Facebook post where it shows a rake of 2 so question answered thanks!

Edited December 17, 2020 by Markwj

[johndon]

3 hours ago, KR Models said:

 

The wheels is one of the fixes. Not much of a reduction to get it to scale.

 

Good to hear.

 

I assume that the tooling is still subject to change as the release levers are still missing from the ends on your EP as are the internal details of the hoppers and the doors?

 

John

 

[KR Models]

10 minutes ago, johndon said:

 

Good to hear.

 

I assume that the tooling is still subject to change as the release levers are still missing from the ends on your EP as are the internal details of the hoppers and the doors?

 

John

 

 

Yes the tooling is always subject to change.  As far as the internal detail, we don't see much cause as it will be covered by either our load or loads that customers will put in themselves.

[woodenhead]

1 minute ago, KR Models said:

 

Yes the tooling is always subject to change.  As far as the internal detail, we don't see much cause as it will be covered by either our load or loads that customers will put in themselves.

But what about those who want to run empties - every trip loaded had a corresponding empty return.

[johndon]

17 minutes ago, KR Models said:

 

we don't see much cause as it will be covered by either our load or loads that customers will put in themselves.

 

Consider me well and truly flabbergasted... 

 

I'm afraid that's me out then, as woodenhead says, for every full train that went to Consett an empty one came back, these wagons spent 50% of their lives empty...

 

John

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by johndon

[cctransuk]

44 minutes ago, KR Models said:

As far as the internal detail, we don't see much cause as it will be covered by either our load or loads that customers will put in themselves.

 

Now this is a perfect example of why potential KRM models customers were - and still are in many cases - wary as to what the finished item will look like! The KRM proprietors may not run empty trains to balance full ones - but many, many modellers do so.

 

The lack of a proper  understanding of the market is still evident, I'm afraid - and, until remedied, will continue to hamper KRM's attempts to foster customer confidence.

 

John Isherwood.

[dogbox321]

1 hour ago, johndon said:

 

Consider me well and truly flabbergasted... 

 

I'm afraid that's me out then, as woodenhead says, for every full train that went to Consett an empty one came back, these wagons spent 50% of their lives empty...

 

John

 

 

I was just looking to do a pre-order, but to me - some of the details look a little "coarse", and I would like to see a more finalised product, so I can see the level od detail I would be getting.  Are any connecting pipes between wagons to be included? 

 

Regrettably it sounds like my comments of 11th November are still true, but not herd......

 

Best Wishes,

 

Chris.

 

What I am saying is - manufacturers nowadays go to extreme lengths to ensure details are correct, and if you produce "one" substandard product your reputation will be left in tatters, and people will not have the confidence to pre-order and pay for your products up front, which is the principle of your business model.  Plus I can totally understand the deposit scheme, so people are committed and don't just say they want one, but never commit to an order!  But in this scheme - people are trusting you, hence the details need to be right and you have a huge responsibility to deliver for those who are backing the company.  Likewise there was the "confusion" relating to the Nuclear Flask wagon.  Personally, I would be looking into my research techniques to ensure any flaws are identified and corrected prior to starting tooling, when mistakes start getting expensive, or worse still - slip through the net and onto the final production model.  Whilst Canada may not be the easiest of places to be based and get all the research required - I'm sure you must have "sources" within the UK and there are plenty of people with knowledge and experiences that they will share with you on a given subject manner.

 

I'm not complaining, just attempting to share my concerns in a constructive manner, so hopefully KRM can move forward in producing excellently detailed products - that both yourself and your customers can be proud of.

[johndon]

I'll preface with this the following:

 

1. I am modelling South Pelaw Junction on the Tyne Dock to Consett line where these wagons actually ran so I appreciate I am likely to be far more critical of these wagons than most.

 

2. I fully appreciate that what we have been shown so far is an engineering prototype and I also appreciate that KR Models have stated that changes can be made to the tooling. 

 

However, given KR Models statement that they see no cause to do the interior, I offer the following comparison:

 

KR Models EP from the YouTube video:

 

 

An example that I've built from the Dave Alexander kit.  Even this is missing some small details like rivets and a couple of small handrails but the interior detail is clear to see in an empty wagon:

 

 

Again, I appreciate my somewhat 'blinkered' perspective when it comes to these iconic wagons but I am seriously disappointed that there will be no interior details and it has taken a rake of these from being a must buy to a no buy for me.

 

However, I suspect that far more people won't be bothered...

 

John

 

[Bishdurham]

2 hours ago, johndon said:

 

Consider me well and truly flabbergasted... 

 

I'm afraid that's me out then, as woodenhead says, for every full train that went to Consett an empty one came back, these wagons spent 50% of their lives empty...

 

John

 

I would say more than 50% of the time empty as once they were filled they were off to Consett and after two hours they were empty and would be until reloaded.

 

The thing that is annoying me is that this is a company with a .co.uk website, so I take it based in the UK, although production is in China, but they have a Canada contact address and so can charge me sales tax on my order.  They have also taken my  money now although they only hope to deliver in the first quarter of 2021.  I don't think I will order anything else from them.

 

End of rant!  Happy Christmas!

[RBAGE]

24 minutes ago, johndon said:

I'll preface with this the following:

 

1. I am modelling South Pelaw Junction on the Tyne Dock to Consett line where these wagons actually ran so I appreciate I am likely to be far more critical of these wagons than most.

 

2. I fully appreciate that what we have been shown so far is an engineering prototype and I also appreciate that KR Models have stated that changes can be made to the tooling. 

 

However, given KR Models statement that they see no cause to do the interior, I offer the following comparison:

 

KR Models EP from the YouTube video:

 

 

An example that I've built from the Dave Alexander kit.  Even this is missing some small details like rivets and a couple of small handrails but the interior detail is clear to see in an empty wagon:

 

 

Again, I appreciate my somewhat 'blinkered' perspective when it comes to these iconic wagons but I am seriously disappointed that there will be no interior details and it has taken a rake of these from being a must buy to a no buy for me.

 

However, I suspect that far more people won't be bothered...

 

John

 

John,

I agree with most of what you are saying but I'm not sure about the implications of "far more people won't be bothered". Which probably means I agree with all you are saying. I'm just expanding on the possible outcome.

As you know, this wagon has quite a limited scope, both in location and in operation. Only between Tyne Dock and Consett (apart from trips to works) and then generally only 8 or 9.

So, potentially, although "far more people won't be bothered", they might also not be bothered about operation so only by one or two. 

Whereas, the people who intend to run a prototypical train might also insist on a prototypical model. These will be the people who will eventually buy 8 or 9. 

It's worth KRM thinking about who their target customer is.

I suspect that the reason there is no interior detail is because, in a relatively simple tool, it would be near impossible to eject the moulding. To have interior detail would mean a more sophisticated tool or more likely tools, more assembly work and more cost. I suspect it is either impossible or very expensive to make such additions to the existing tooling at this stage.

This engineering prototype makes the already more attractive Bradwell or Alexander model a much more desirable prospect. I have a rake of each but was considering a rake of these.

Maybe not.

Bob

[johndon]

6 minutes ago, RBAGE said:

 

This engineering prototype makes the already more attractive Bradwell or Alexander model a much more desirable prospect. I have a rake of each but was considering a rake of these.

Maybe not.

Bob

I’ve got a complete rake of loaded Bradwells a 70% complete rake of empty Alexander’s but was seriously considering a rake of these but not from what I’ve seen so far. 
 

John

 

[RBAGE]

41 minutes ago, johndon said:

I’ve got a complete rake of loaded Bradwells a 70% complete rake of empty Alexander’s but was seriously considering a rake of these but not from what I’ve seen so far. 
 

John

 

It looks like a square sided interior so you wouldn't be able to add detail yourself.

[johndon]

22 minutes ago, RBAGE said:

It looks like a square sided interior so you wouldn't be able to add detail yourself.

 

Yeah, impossible as there is no representation of the opening in the wagon sides covered by the doors.

[BR Blue]

13 hours ago, RBAGE said:

It looks like a square sided interior so you wouldn't be able to add detail yourself.

It would nearly impossible to do the big recesses in the sides. To do so you would have to take the wagon apart. At that point you might as well buy the kit. 

 

Coming after GT3 which looks like a really good model these do not look too good even if they are early samples. The crudeness of the interior just adds to the general clunkyness of the sample. Accurascale, Cavalex and RevolutioN produce wagons way better than this. Copying Accurascale, Cavalex HAAs and RevolutioN in having separate running numbers for each wagon is the only positive I can see.

Edited December 18, 2020 by BR Blue

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, RBAGE said:

It looks like a square sided interior so you wouldn't be able to add detail yourself.

 

How difficult can it be?

 

Main body moulding with two holes in each side; separately moulded doors that clip-fit to body - look, no glue!

[RBAGE]

19 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

How difficult can it be?

 

Main body moulding with two holes in each side; separately moulded doors that clip-fit to body - look, no glue!

It's not difficult but more expensive because they would need multiple tools.

Their design seems seems not to have considered customer expectations.

As was suggested earlier, expectations have been raised dramatically in recent years. A return to less sophisticated, single moulding wagon bodies, at prices equivalent to current "high end" models might not be as successful as hoped. 

Having said that, I have no idea how the model is produced so much of what I've said might be rubbish.

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

May I timidly suggest that KR buy an Accurascale wagon?

 

Mike.

[RBAGE]

 

Bradwell kits.

Edited December 18, 2020 by RBAGE

[Bernard Lamb]

On 17/12/2020 at 14:42, johndon said:

 

Consider me well and truly flabbergasted... 

 

I'm afraid that's me out then, as woodenhead says, for every full train that went to Consett an empty one came back, these wagons spent 50% of their lives empty...

 

John

 

Just to be pedantic surely they spent more than 50% of their lives empty?

They had to be delivered and at some point had to go for servicing.

I presume that they were empty for these trips.

Bernard

[johndon]

34 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Just to be pedantic surely they spent more than 50% of their lives empty?

 

 

Very true...

 

Having said that, the journey time up to Consett when they were full took longer than the empty return trip back to Tyne Dock (even more so if they had to wait for a banker at South Pelaw) so, on a return trip from and to Tyne Dock they were empty for less than 50% of the time taken

 

[RBAGE]

43 minutes ago, johndon said:

 

Very true...

 

Having said that, the journey time up to Consett when they were full took longer than the empty return trip back to Tyne Dock (even more so if they had to wait for a banker at South Pelaw) so, on a return trip from and to Tyne Dock they were empty for less than 50% of the time taken

 

You're splitting loads, now.

 

Anyway, all this talk is certainly providing plenty publicity.

[adb968008]

I’m glad I ordered mine with loads.

 

Has the loads been researched ?

theres a reasonable picture part way down this site (with a 24 being banked by a pair of 17’s).

 

http://southpelawjunction.co.uk/wp/?page_id=631

[johndon]

53 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I’m glad I ordered mine with loads.

 

Has the loads been researched ?

theres a reasonable picture part way down this site (with a 24 being banked by a pair of 17’s).

 

http://southpelawjunction.co.uk/wp/?page_id=631

That’s my website

 

One thing to remember with the loads is that they varied enormously depending on the density and colour of the iron ore that came in to Tyne Dock. Colour could be anywhere from a bright orange to almost black, sometimes the load was clearly visible over the sides of the wagons and other times was below the top of the wagon sides.

 

John

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by johndon

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, johndon said:

That’s my website

 

One thing to remember with the loads is that they varied enormously depending on the density and colour of the iron ore that came in to Tyne Dock. Colour could be anywhere from a bright orange to almost black, sometimes the load was clearly visible over the sides of the wagons and other times was below the top of the wagon sides.

 

John

 

Am loving the site !

 

Looking at the last train pictures, am wondering if I was there (i would have been young but its giving me flashbacks).