IIA Biomass Hopper, By Accurascale

[adb968008]

29 minutes ago, dogbox321 said:

 

 

But whilst the Hornby one is good and probably isn't as needy as some other items for a new tool - wouldn't you sooner have an AS one (or three)?  I'm sure you would get metal handrails, the correct colours/livery and some other refinements for a similar price - it would just take a little longer.

 

Best Regards,

 

C.

 

 

Under the hood of a OOgauge model they could Potentially reuse the class 92 block, bogie and motor arrangement. The dimensions are there.

 

In real life the class 92 design started by using the class 60 as its general design shape.

obviously the outer body, bogies, underframe are different.

Whether demand is there for a new class 60 is something else.

Edited October 9, 2020 by adb968008

[TomScrut]

5 minutes ago, dogbox321 said:

wouldn't you sooner have an AS one (or three)?

 

Maybe, but I wouldn't expect this to happen at the moment. The Hornby 60 is still a very good model and so I don't think that would be a fight AS would want to pick when there are (in my opinion) easier fights to have, especially given Hornby would almost certainly react either by sprucing their model up or dropping the price.

 

56/69, 88 and/or 93 would be ones where there would be little to no competition other than on the 56 which is a worse model than the 60 I think.

 

The best thing that could happen for the 60 in the short term IMO is Hornby sorting out the lighting and going to 21MTC/Plux22.

 

6 hours ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

Also can anyone confirm if both the HYA Coal Hoppers and IIA Biomass Hoppers both still remain in operation with GBRf to the present day?

 

They still operate, the IIAs run pretty much all the time I think between Tyne Dock and Drax. Given there is little coal traffic at the moment the HYAs are being used on aggregate trains but given their size, they aren't ideal for it. As I am interested in present day (and beyond) I am leaving the coal ones as I think of the 3 combinations (including the shorty) they will be the shortest lived because if they are to remain on aggregate I think they'll get shortened.

 

If/when the shortys are announced I will probably have some of those too.

[Roy Langridge]

7 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Maybe, but I wouldn't expect this to happen at the moment. The Hornby 60 is still a very good model and so I don't think that would be a fight AS would want to pick when there are (in my opinion) easier fights to have, especially given Hornby would almost certainly react either by sprucing their model up or dropping the price.

 

56/69, 88 and/or 93 would be ones where there would be little to no competition other than on the 56 which is a worse model than the 60 I think.

 

The best thing that could happen for the 60 in the short term IMO is Hornby sorting out the lighting and going to 21MTC/Plux22.

 

Spot on. The Hornby 60 is so good that to go up against it could be suicide. What needs to change on the Hornby loco?  In addition to the DCC capability that you raise, it is just ancillary bits that could be updated very swiftly, the main body tooling is ok.

 

I am not sure that 88 would be a good move, Dapol are probably in pole position for that as a few parts are common to the 68.

 

As for the 93, I doubt that anybody knows what that will actually look like when* it comes into service. That said, it will be a very popular model if/when it is available.

 

* And yes, there are still doubts over whether it is physically possible to fit the spec in a UK loading gauge.

 

Roy

[TomScrut]

42 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Spot on. The Hornby 60 is so good that to go up against it could be suicide. What needs to change on the Hornby loco?  In addition to the DCC capability that you raise, it is just ancillary bits that could be updated very swiftly, the main body tooling is ok.

 

I am not sure that 88 would be a good move, Dapol are probably in pole position for that as a few parts are common to the 68.

 

As for the 93, I doubt that anybody knows what that will actually look like when* it comes into service. That said, it will be a very popular model if/when it is available.

 

* And yes, there are still doubts over whether it is physically possible to fit the spec in a UK loading gauge.

 

Roy

 

Exactly RE the 60.

 

The 88 I think there would be interest in, whether it is enough to sell enough I don't know. It's less niche than some of the stuff Heljan do, and also the 89 wich AS are doing. But yes I agree that Dapol would have a slight advantage as I think quite a lot of the tooling except the body would probably be transferable.

 

I wasn't aware the 93 was in doubt to be honest, although I did wonder if that capability is possible then why does the 88 only have 750hp? You'd think the 88s would be far more useful if they weren't tied to either having a 68 as backup or being limited in their capability when there aren't any wires.

[BR Blue]

Not much wrong with the Hornby 60. Agreed that the electrics could be better but you can say that about all Hornby diesels. However I cannot see anyone doing another 60. It would be madness. There is far more low hanging fruit. The 56 is not bad but not as good as the 60. Classes 20, 31 and 50 amongst others have more room for improvement.

[TomScrut]

22 minutes ago, BR Blue said:

The 56 is not bad but not as good as the 60. Classes 20, 31 and 50 amongst others have more room for improvement.

 

Yeah I agree. I was thinking that in the case of the 56 if thought about properly the 69 could maybe be done at the same time which would be a brand new loco never done before.

[adb968008]

The modern image gap isn't locomotives...

 

its units.

[The Black Hat]

8 hours ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

Well another fantastic announcement, and another fantastic wagon announcement. 

 

I know that I keep using the same words and phrases a lot on these Accurascale threads but I just can't express how fantastic and striving the company are. They are just unstoppable and considering what has been and still is going on this year, Accurascale haven't let that become a problem and stop them from striving forwards in the development of existing models as well as new models too. What more could we want!?

 

Would anyone be able to help me please with some of the details regarding operation of the previously announced GBRf HYA Coal Hoppers and this new announcement of the GBRf IIA Biomass Hoppers? 

 

I have read the announcement in full on the Accurascale website and it says that at least 100 GBRf HYAs Coal Hoppers were converted to IIA Biomass Hoppers between 2009 and 2013. Is the number of IIA hoppers still roughly the same now as it was in 2013 or have further examples been converted? Also can anyone confirm if both the HYA Coal Hoppers and IIA Biomass Hoppers both still remain in operation with GBRf to the present day? If the HYA Coal Hoppers are no longer in service with GBRf can anyone advise as to when they were removed from service? I ask these questions because it will determine as to which wagons out of the HYAs and IIAs that I consider buying and hopefully actually buy (funds dependant). For example, because the IIAs were modified and converted between 2009 and 2013, this is the later and more recent/current wagon out of the original HYA and IIA, and working on the assumption that the modified and converted IIAs will be in service for the foreseeable years to come then this would sway me more to consider buying the converted IIA wagons over the HYA wagons. Finally, can anyone confirm if the GBRf Classes 60s and 66s have worked with both the HYA Coal Hoppers and IIA Biomass Hoppers? Also have either of the GBRf HYAs and/or IIAs been hauled/used by any Freightliner Class 66s and/or 70s?

 

Sorry for the many questions, and I would greatly appreciate it if anyone could assist with any information. 

 

Well done again Accurascale, and is the IIA announcement what would have been announced this weekend at the Great Electric Train Show, also coinciding with Aldershot Model Railway Exhibition? Or have we got another one or more new announcements to come this weekend?

 

Thank you very much in advance. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

 

Hello Danny, 

 

I'll see if I can help answer some of the questions you have. GBRF started off with the HYA coal hoppers, to gain entry into the Coal sector to power stations. They were very successful winning flows for several routes, namely from the north east out of Blyth or Tyne Dock down to Yorkshire, or from Liverpool to Yorkshire. With coal being reduced as a power source for power stations, GBRf were one of the first to see the direction the market was going and converted some of their existing HYA wagons to IIA for transporting biomass. The rakes would mean that you could see both types in action a few years ago, until Coal was virtually withdrawn and biomass was taking over. GBRF also bought several other wagons that were done specifically for biomass (I expect that Accurascale will want to look at these if these IIA are selling so well), with examples of these being used on the Blyth to Lynnmouth turns and also for supplying Drax. 

Traction for these turns has always shifted between class 60 and 66s. GBRF wagons are fitted with buffers and draw gear so that both types can work the wagon sets. Most of the time the traction depends on the length of the train to its destination and class 60s were obtained to help haul larger loads on some of the steep routes, such as out of Liverpool docks, so that profit on the turn can be maximised. 

Freightliner have not really been at the head of GBRf wagons much, although GBRf did take a class 70 on trial to see how it performed before going for class 60s but I think this was from Colas. Freightliner have tended to be protective of their engines and stock, although Freightliner HYAs were hired to Colas from their owning company rather than freightliner when Colas ran the coal flow from Wolsingham (Weardale) to Radcliffe / Eggborough. 

 

Hope that helps... 

[TomScrut]

45 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

The modern image gap isn't locomotives...

 

its units.

 

I agree, but I would expect these to be a larger undertaking (and therefore a different conversation) to which is the most appropriate loco to go after next.

[The Black Hat]

2 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

I agree, but I would expect these to be a larger undertaking (and therefore a different conversation) to which is the most appropriate loco unit to go after next.

 

Fixed that for you. 

Edited October 9, 2020 by The Black Hat

[6990WitherslackHall]

26 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

I agree, but I would expect these to be a larger undertaking (and therefore a different conversation) to which is the most appropriate loco to go after next.

One model of a DMU we haven't had yet is a Class 185

[4630]

47 minutes ago, The Black Hat said:

 

Hello Danny, 

 

... although GBRf did take a class 70 on trial to see how it performed before going for class 60s but I think this was from Colas. 

 

Hope that helps... 

 

Yes, it was Colas 70814 which was 'road tested' by GBRf for a short period during March 2018 on the flow between Tyne Coal Terminal and Drax Power Station.

 

Here it is at Brotherton on the 22nd March 2018, having just crossed the River Aire, with the closed Ferrybridge Power Station in the background, working 4N61, 12.00 Drax AES (GBRf) to Tyne Coal Terminal (GBRf).

 

[TomScrut]

2 hours ago, 6990WitherslackHall said:

One model of a DMU we haven't had yet is a Class 185

 

The 185 is a funny one though isn't it. Only 50 or so of them, only 1 operator/operational area which also happens to be in the north (which I don't think helps),  and has an uncertain future.

 

Saying that, if there was one for sale I'd have it given it is entirely relevant to my area and era of interest.

 

Oddly enough will cross paths with these IIAs on a regular basis on the ECML!

[Accurascale Fran]

6 hours ago, D9502 said:

Hello Fran, Accurascale

 

I know its early days but do you guys have some idea of how the models will be finished? The graphic illustrates a new build finish in a more aluminium colour with the body welds being discernable as a series of brown lines whereas the prototype photo shows a more darker grey hue. I think the Farish N scale model was released as per the graphic below.

 

 

Hi there,

 

We will be looking to implement a finish which has them a short while in service to take the shiny look off them. It will make more sense when we get the decorated samples. It wont be quite weathered, but not blingy either!

 

Seems like it's become a wishlist thread since I last checked in lol. Can confirm that a Class 60 is currently not on our radar, so dont worry! 

 

HYAs still continue in service on coal flows in GBRf, Fastline and Touax liveries, and the ones we are offering are good for the current scene, and at the time of writing have not been converted into shortie or biomass IIA use. So, you can run them all alongside each other!

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

[hmrspaul]

Even the one that was put on display at NRM Railex has a weathered patina with very marked weld lines. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gbrfbiomass/ed26ea694

 

Paul

[TomScrut]

Out of interest does anyone know what steel these are made out of?

[6990WitherslackHall]

10 hours ago, TomScrut said:

Out of interest does anyone know what steel these are made out of?

Carbon Steel I think.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

21 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

Danny,

 

A quick Flickr search will give you plenty of examples of GBRF 66s on HYA trains this year, inclusing “celebrity” locos like Cemex and Thank You NHS. 
 

Roy

 

20 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Maybe, but I wouldn't expect this to happen at the moment. The Hornby 60 is still a very good model and so I don't think that would be a fight AS would want to pick when there are (in my opinion) easier fights to have, especially given Hornby would almost certainly react either by sprucing their model up or dropping the price.

 

56/69, 88 and/or 93 would be ones where there would be little to no competition other than on the 56 which is a worse model than the 60 I think.

 

The best thing that could happen for the 60 in the short term IMO is Hornby sorting out the lighting and going to 21MTC/Plux22.

 

 

They still operate, the IIAs run pretty much all the time I think between Tyne Dock and Drax. Given there is little coal traffic at the moment the HYAs are being used on aggregate trains but given their size, they aren't ideal for it. As I am interested in present day (and beyond) I am leaving the coal ones as I think of the 3 combinations (including the shorty) they will be the shortest lived because if they are to remain on aggregate I think they'll get shortened.

 

If/when the shortys are announced I will probably have some of those too.

 

18 hours ago, The Black Hat said:

 

Hello Danny, 

 

I'll see if I can help answer some of the questions you have. GBRF started off with the HYA coal hoppers, to gain entry into the Coal sector to power stations. They were very successful winning flows for several routes, namely from the north east out of Blyth or Tyne Dock down to Yorkshire, or from Liverpool to Yorkshire. With coal being reduced as a power source for power stations, GBRf were one of the first to see the direction the market was going and converted some of their existing HYA wagons to IIA for transporting biomass. The rakes would mean that you could see both types in action a few years ago, until Coal was virtually withdrawn and biomass was taking over. GBRF also bought several other wagons that were done specifically for biomass (I expect that Accurascale will want to look at these if these IIA are selling so well), with examples of these being used on the Blyth to Lynnmouth turns and also for supplying Drax. 

Traction for these turns has always shifted between class 60 and 66s. GBRF wagons are fitted with buffers and draw gear so that both types can work the wagon sets. Most of the time the traction depends on the length of the train to its destination and class 60s were obtained to help haul larger loads on some of the steep routes, such as out of Liverpool docks, so that profit on the turn can be maximised. 

Freightliner have not really been at the head of GBRf wagons much, although GBRf did take a class 70 on trial to see how it performed before going for class 60s but I think this was from Colas. Freightliner have tended to be protective of their engines and stock, although Freightliner HYAs were hired to Colas from their owning company rather than freightliner when Colas ran the coal flow from Wolsingham (Weardale) to Radcliffe / Eggborough. 

 

Hope that helps... 

 

17 hours ago, 4630 said:

 

Yes, it was Colas 70814 which was 'road tested' by GBRf for a short period during March 2018 on the flow between Tyne Coal Terminal and Drax Power Station.

 

Here it is at Brotherton on the 22nd March 2018, having just crossed the River Aire, with the closed Ferrybridge Power Station in the background, working 4N61, 12.00 Drax AES (GBRf) to Tyne Coal Terminal (GBRf).

 

 

14 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi there,

 

We will be looking to implement a finish which has them a short while in service to take the shiny look off them. It will make more sense when we get the decorated samples. It wont be quite weathered, but not blingy either!

 

Seems like it's become a wishlist thread since I last checked in lol. Can confirm that a Class 60 is currently not on our radar, so dont worry! 

 

HYAs still continue in service on coal flows in GBRf, Fastline and Touax liveries, and the ones we are offering are good for the current scene, and at the time of writing have not been converted into shortie or biomass IIA use. So, you can run them all alongside each other!

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

 

Thank you everyone, for all of your replies and information. It's greatly appreciated. 

 

It's good to know that both the HYA Coal Hoppers and IIA Biomass Hoppers both currently remain in traffic. I have the same outlook as you Tom, as I would probably opt to have the IIA Biomass wagons which will see use into the foreseeable future first, before possibly buying the other wagons. 

 

It's good to know that both the GBRf 60s and 66s are compatible in working with all of the wagons, especially because I may be tempted to buy a Hornby GBRf 60 if they release one to go with the wagons. I had forgotten about GBRf hiring a Colas 70 a couple of years ago for a trial using the wagons. That would be something else I could run with the IIAs, as I have the Bachmann Colas 70805. 

 

That's an excellent photo of the Colas 70 on the trial workings. I am sure I liked that photo on Flickr at the time. 

 

Thank you for confirming that the HYAs and IIAs can still prototypically be run together in 2020, Fran. That's ideal for myself and many others because we may decide to buy both of the different wagons, even if we can't afford both sets of wagons from the first batch, because I am sure that their will be further batches in the future. Hopefully if I can afford some in the future, before the first batch arrives and I will be able to pre-order. If I can I will probably opt to buy the IIAs first and then possibly some HYAs at a later stage from another batch. 

 

Thanks again everyone, for all of the help. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

[The Stationmaster]

Definitely give the printers something to do on these

 

 

And don't forget the works plate

 

 

[daz9284]

13 hours ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you everyone, for all of your replies and information. It's greatly appreciated. 

 

It's good to know that both the HYA Coal Hoppers and IIA Biomass Hoppers both currently remain in traffic. I have the same outlook as you Tom, as I would probably opt to have the IIA Biomass wagons which will see use into the foreseeable future first, before possibly buying the other wagons. 

 

It's good to know that both the GBRf 60s and 66s are compatible in working with all of the wagons, especially because I may be tempted to buy a Hornby GBRf 60 if they release one to go with the wagons. I had forgotten about GBRf hiring a Colas 70 a couple of years ago for a trial using the wagons. That would be something else I could run with the IIAs, as I have the Bachmann Colas 70805. 

 

That's an excellent photo of the Colas 70 on the trial workings. I am sure I liked that photo on Flickr at the time. 

 

Thank you for confirming that the HYAs and IIAs can still prototypically be run together in 2020, Fran. That's ideal for myself and many others because we may decide to buy both of the different wagons, even if we can't afford both sets of wagons from the first batch, because I am sure that their will be further batches in the future. Hopefully if I can afford some in the future, before the first batch arrives and I will be able to pre-order. If I can I will probably opt to buy the IIAs first and then possibly some HYAs at a later stage from another batch. 

 

Thanks again everyone, for all of the help. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

 

 

Freightliner 66s have also worked on HYA. For a while last year GBRf used a few Freightliner 66s while GBRf's 59003 was hired to Freightliner for driver training prior to the mendip contract. I saw a few FL66's on HYA's around leeds working between Rylstone Quarry and Leeds Hunslet.

 

 

 

Off topic but the shorty HYA's also worked with the Tarmac JGA's

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

40 minutes ago, daz9284 said:

 

 

Freightliner 66s have also worked on HYA. For a while last year GBRf used a few Freightliner 66s while GBRf's 59003 was hired to Freightliner for driver training prior to the mendip contract. I saw a few FL66's on HYA's around leeds working between Rylstone Quarry and Leeds Hunslet.

 

 

 

Off topic but the shorty HYA's also worked with the Tarmac JGA's

 

Thanks for the reply and the info Daz. It's greatly appreciated. 

 

I didn't know that the FL 66s had worked with the HYAs last year. So we now at least know that the FL 66s worked with the GB RailFreight and Tarmac branded HYAs, and if I or others follow rule one, we could make an exception to buy and run the GBRf HYAs with FL 66s, just with the branding been GBRf as per the Accurascale wagons instead of GB RailFreight and Tarmac. Excellent photo by the way and 66957 is one of my favourites. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

[daz9284]

9 minutes ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

Thanks for the reply and the info Daz. It's greatly appreciated. 

 

I didn't know that the FL 66s had worked with the HYAs last year. So we now at least know that the FL 66s worked with the GB RailFreight and Tarmac branded HYAs, and if I or others follow rule one, we could make an exception to buy and run the GBRf HYAs with FL 66s, just with the branding been GBRf as per the Accurascale wagons instead of GB RailFreight and Tarmac. Excellent photo by the way and 66957 is one of my favourites. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

the picture isn't mine, i just searched on flickr.

 

it should ne noted that i can only find the FL66's on the shorty HYAs in either GB Railfreight/Tarmac branding or no branding.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

9 minutes ago, daz9284 said:

the picture isn't mine, i just searched on flickr.

 

it should ne noted that i can only find the FL66's on the shorty HYAs in either GB Railfreight/Tarmac branding or no branding.

 

One day running a OO Gauge FL 66 with GB RailFreight and Tarmac branded HYAs might be possible if Accurascale announce the short HYAs. Hopefully they will be announced in due course. 

 

Thank you. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

[33052]

On 09/10/2020 at 20:10, TomScrut said:

Out of interest does anyone know what steel these are made out of?

Ive not seen one up close,but looking at the Pictures id say they are Low Grade Stainless Steel,the Staining on the Welds gives it away.

[TomScrut]

9 hours ago, 33052 said:

Ive not seen one up close,but looking at the Pictures id say they are Low Grade Stainless Steel,the Staining on the Welds gives it away.

 

Yes that is what I was thinking, it reminded me of Cromweld (1.4003, 3CR12) which we use a lot in the bus/coach industry and is as you say a low grade stainless. It behaves how this looks to have, I thought it would be a funny coincidence if it was the same stuff.