Peco oo gauge Code 75 3 way points

[sb67]

Just got a quick question.

I know you can use the basic electrofrog points straight from the box. Can anyone tell me if you can use the asymmetric 3 way points straight from the box or do they need frog switching? 

I suspect they do need switching but wanted to check as I cant get a pair to work straight from the box and wondered if they could be faulty.

 

Many thanks.

[RFS]

Yes they do need switching - the frogs will be dead otherwise. 

 

And for best electrical conductivity, bond the three rails together on each side. If you look underneath you should see where Peco have already cut the sleepers for you. Does not matter whether you are DC or DCC. Without this bonding you are dependent on blade contact for some portions of the point.  I use DCC and make this bonding wire a dropper to the DCC bus. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by RFS

[ikcdab]

And just to add that if you Google it,  you'll find lots of info on how to do it. 

[sb67]

Thanks guys. That's confirmed my suspicions. The problem I'll have is where to put a switch, I was going to manually control the points and the baseboard I'm using is an IKEA shelf. 

Have to get my thinking cap on.

 

 

[RFS]

15 hours ago, sb67 said:

Thanks guys. That's confirmed my suspicions. The problem I'll have is where to put a switch, I was going to manually control the points and the baseboard I'm using is an IKEA shelf. 

Have to get my thinking cap on.

 

 

 

You could use a microswitch like this one that is operated by the tie-bar. 

[cctransuk]

3 minutes ago, RFS said:

 

You could use a microswitch like this one that is operated by the tie-bar. 

 

That's exactly what I have experimented with fitting beneath the tie-bar of a Peco Code 75 Bullhead point.

 

A block of plastic square section, drilled, tapped and screwed to the underside of the tie-bar using the central hole provided. This actuates the striker of the microswitch that is glued to the underside of the sleepers at the toe of the point.

 

The switch is so small that only a tiny recess is needed in the baseboard to house the microswitch.

 

John Isherwood.

[sb67]

14 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

That's exactly what I have experimented with fitting beneath the tie-bar of a Peco Code 75 Bullhead point.

 

A block of plastic square section, drilled, tapped and screwed to the underside of the tie-bar using the central hole provided. This actuates the striker of the microswitch that is glued to the underside of the sleepers at the toe of the point.

 

The switch is so small that only a tiny recess is needed in the baseboard to house the microswitch.

 

John Isherwood.

 

That sounds interesting, how do you operate the point  itself John? 

[cctransuk]

5 minutes ago, sb67 said:

 

That sounds interesting, how do you operate the point  itself John? 

 

That is still to be determined!

 

Originally, I was intending to use the same, manual 'flick / digital' operation that I have on my test track, and was looking for a simple means of switching the frog polarity.

 

However; I have now just about decided to use an adaptation of wire-in-tube operation, actuated by a slide switch.

 

 

Assuming that I proceed on this basis, I will not need the tie-bar microswitches - though they could be used to operate point position indicator lights, I suppose.

 

John Isherwood.

[newbryford]

The above relies on the movement of the switch being similar to the throw of the tiebar.

However - if the switch throw is greater than the tiebar, then add in an omega loop somewhere in the linkage from switch to tiebar.

 

[sb67]

On 09/10/2020 at 12:35, cctransuk said:

 

That is still to be determined!

 

Originally, I was intending to use the same, manual 'flick / digital' operation that I have on my test track, and was looking for a simple means of switching the frog polarity.

 

However; I have now just about decided to use an adaptation of wire-in-tube operation, actuated by a slide switch.

 

 

Assuming that I proceed on this basis, I will not need the tie-bar microswitches - though they could be used to operate point position indicator lights, I suppose.

 

John Isherwood.

 

Thanks for that John. The trunking looks like a good idea, I'll look for some of that.

[cctransuk]

On 09/10/2020 at 12:23, sb67 said:

 

That sounds interesting, how do you operate the point  itself John? 

 

The LH diagram illustrates my test attachment of microswitch and actuator cam (10 x 3 x 3mm. plastic strip) beneath the tiebar and sleeper; the cam was bolted through the central hole in the tiebar and the microswitch was glued to the sleeper.

 

The RH diagram shows how I will improve this arrangement in future. The microswitch will be bolted to the sleeper via the existing holes in the microswitch, and the cam will be increased in size to 12 x 6 x 6mm. to compensate for the relocation of the microswitch and to make the cam more robust.

 

The microswitch will change the frog polarity and so the turnout will be a standalone unit, which could be actuated via the digital 'flick' method, if desired.

 

Assuming that this system works satisfactorily, the switching function of the slide switch, used to operate the wire in tube system, will not be required for turnout electrical switching, but could be utilised for mimic diagram operation.

 

John Isherwood.

[newbryford]

6 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

 

 

 

Assuming that this system works satisfactorily, the switching function of the slide switch, used to operate the wire in tube system, will not be required for turnout electrical switching, but could be utilised for mimic diagram operation.

 

John Isherwood.

 

If the slide switch is satisfactory for mechanical operation and you require a mimic diagram - why not use a DPDT version.

Use one pole for the frog and the other for LEDs/indicators

No requirement for a microswitch.

[cctransuk]

12 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

If the slide switch is satisfactory for mechanical operation and you require a mimic diagram - why not use a DPDT version.

Use one pole for the frog and the other for LEDs/indicators

No requirement for a microswitch.

 

The switches are DPDT, and I did consider the approach that you suggest.

 

However, initially, I may well wish to operate the layout via the 'flick' method - and the simple installation of the microswitch will facilitate this.

 

At a later date, mechanical turnout operation will be installed as indicated in my diagram. In the event that microswitches prove to be less than reliable, it will be a simple matter to rewire the frogs to the slide switches.

 

John Isherwood.

[sb67]

18 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

The LH diagram illustrates my test attachment of microswitch and actuator cam (10 x 3 x 3mm. plastic strip) beneath the tiebar and sleeper; the cam was bolted through the central hole in the tiebar and the microswitch was glued to the sleeper.

 

The RH diagram shows how I will improve this arrangement in future. The microswitch will be bolted to the sleeper via the existing holes in the microswitch, and the cam will be increased in size to 12 x 6 x 6mm. to compensate for the relocation of the microswitch and to make the cam more robust.

 

The microswitch will change the frog polarity and so the turnout will be a standalone unit, which could be actuated via the digital 'flick' method, if desired.

 

Assuming that this system works satisfactorily, the switching function of the slide switch, used to operate the wire in tube system, will not be required for turnout electrical switching, but could be utilised for mimic diagram operation.

 

John Isherwood.

 

That looks great John, how has your testing been going? Also, what bolts have you used, where can you get really small ones? 

[cctransuk]

6 hours ago, sb67 said:

 

That looks great John, how has your testing been going? Also, what bolts have you used, where can you get really small ones? 

 

The testing is going fine, thank you.

 

I keep a stock of small BA-series brass nuts and bolts; 8BA, 10BA and 12BA cover most requirements, though I also keep 6BA and 14BA as well.

 

A Google search on BRASS BA NUTS BOLTS will bring up plenty of sources.

 

John Isherwood.

[sb67]

Thanks John