D2195 on a passenger duty?

[w124bob]

Although the loco was an early casualty I've just come across a picture(BR Diesels in Action Vol2)of the loco on a passenger working. The picture shows D2195 at Highworth in June 1962 with what to me looks like a B set, the date would suggest a last minute steam substitution. Two thoughts, was it an experiment? and does anyone know why that loco was withdrawn by 1968 from Bath road but not cut up until 1981(according to BRDatabase website). It's withdrawl was  certainly a one off. 

[Steamport Southport]

ISTR it was identified as a workman's train from Swindon.

 

The locomotive itself was sold for industrial use.

 

https://433shop.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=9497

 

 

 

Jason

Edited October 8, 2020 by Steamport Southport

[w124bob]

The plot thickens, it was one of five D2190 to 95 all withdrawn by 1972, just checked my Ian Allan for '72. Picture of '95 found on Flickr here

https://www.flickr.com/photos/glevumblues/8637356515/in/photolist-vTRHS1-2hDdEva-cZP7ou-fNvov1-yRta9H-eqJxz8-o32A55-cQn5Go-MKF4M-tNjYhs-wMQeED-9vUEAT-kVNeTz-bQx3Jp-22QMpcm-rnfHKS-fFuzrE-U5boUa-eafHaV-25EpBYA-adzPtX-8xJnRm-4LXRXg-5Ez55K-GjYxhF-2hP9TP8-pDgfFd-pyDFgn-7HyjZW

Still a good excuse to put a 204 hp Gardner on a passenger train!

[stewartingram]

Not unknown for an 03 to work passenger trains. I have at least a couple of pics in my collection (which I can't publish for copyright reasons) of them working public trains on the Hitchin - Bedford line.

 

Stewart

[Phil Bullock]

10 hours ago, w124bob said:

The plot thickens, it was one of five D2190 to 95 all withdrawn by 1972, just checked my Ian Allan for '72. Picture of '95 found on Flickr here

https://www.flickr.com/photos/glevumblues/8637356515/in/photolist-vTRHS1-2hDdEva-cZP7ou-fNvov1-yRta9H-eqJxz8-o32A55-cQn5Go-MKF4M-tNjYhs-wMQeED-9vUEAT-kVNeTz-bQx3Jp-22QMpcm-rnfHKS-fFuzrE-U5boUa-eafHaV-25EpBYA-adzPtX-8xJnRm-4LXRXg-5Ez55K-GjYxhF-2hP9TP8-pDgfFd-pyDFgn-7HyjZW

Still a good excuse to put a 204 hp Gardner on a passenger train!

 

That the 03s were withdrawn before their time is evident given the amount of further use they got.

 

Worcester played a significant part in this redistribution of WR locos, including D2195 - see  http://www.miac.org.uk/stored85a.html#class14

 

The names of a couple of firms - Birds and Adams - feature prominently in that list, theres more about their involvement via the links on this page - https://rcts.org.uk/diesel-dilemmas/

 

As for D2195 theres a picture of it here in store at Worcester . second one in line just inside the shed and just about to be cabbed by yours truly....

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/geoffsimages/6205364198/in/photolist-asm7zU-YXeHsA-KLkfmJ-4ZJtgP-H9z1Lg-Qof7bM-2iwG5Sg-B7wQam-BnD717-Bsz2hY-2i6ajor-8nmWqh-BiUYzM-e4hZBm-WXi5uq-B8dZdF-BzXkuf-2g3tfoA-LcAtFN-21XjEN3-2jfZTZy-vcQeVT-27UY27q-Ma992M-ZeNhmo-LxuctE-BYJ69t-KpX3o9-Kqb6fz-LHKPMk-rFdcsm-Be99JD-JWe2gc-22UZwL3-2ijufHX-BvLMVX-KtXofj-MwX53A-2118SRx-2jck93J-LcFSLB-2ik9giB-Zw341m-FUFZKg-XSPx7f-2jJxKqm-k7EhM8-2jf6YNP-Lcxb2Y-M2FYy8

 

Motive power was much more interesting in the 60s!

 

Cheers

 

Phil

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Phil Bullock

[The Stationmaster]

13 hours ago, w124bob said:

Although the loco was an early casualty I've just come across a picture(BR Diesels in Action Vol2)of the loco on a passenger working. The picture shows D2195 at Highworth in June 1962 with what to me looks like a B set, the date would suggest a last minute steam substitution. Two thoughts, was it an experiment? and does anyone know why that loco was withdrawn by 1968 from Bath road but not cut up until 1981(according to BRDatabase website). It's withdrawl was  certainly a one off. 

Not. I think, a last minute substitution.  The Workmen's trains on the Highworth branch - which were for Swindon Works personnel - went over to diesel haulage for at least part of the time at a date I can't give you - but probably during the summer of 1961 - and remained diesel hauled (at least part of the time) until the trains ceased in August 1962.   The date on the photo suggests that somebody went to get a photo of what was nationally something of a rarity before the branch finally closed.  There was no problem using them on the Highworth  branch workmen's trains because their maximum permitted speed was higher than the 25 mph limit which applied on the branch where there were no lower restrictions - the morning train into Swindon took 27 minutes to cover just over five anda half miles with three intermediate request stops.   The evening return train took 31 minutes due to spending more time at intermediate stations

 

 The nearest I can get for a date is that two of Swindon's 16XX were withdrawn in the summer of 1961 although the other two remained until 1964 (and one of them remained dumped at Swindon shed until at least January 1965 when I took a photo of it).  According to the BR Locodatabase  Swindon acquired an allocation of 10 x 204hp shunters (all of which are underlined in my 'Combined which thus confirms they were at Swindon') between March and June of 1961 with another following in 1962 (I saw that one there as well).

[w124bob]

It's a fascinating little insight into how almost pregrouping practices lasted well into BR days and raises more questions both about the workers train and the odd dispersal of of 5 perfectly good engines. It strikes me that someone wanted to rid the WR of steam very quickly ( a whole other subject) and then several years later dispose of 5 loco's which had barely reached 8 years old, at the same time as the non standard class 14's were being sold off or scrapped. Makes you wonder if brown envelopes were involved, or is it just the good old c**k *p school of management. Still from a modellers point of view we now have reason to run 03's on passenger/worker trains and in industrial use. 

[Halvarras]

The 'Modern Locomotives Illustrated' on the Class 03s has a 1961 photo of D2143 at Highworth on this working, which at least makes a change from D2195.

 

It must have been a bit chilly on the way to work during the winter months, but the return journey probably benefited from the residual heat given off by the foundry workers.......!   

[The Stationmaster]

57 minutes ago, w124bob said:

It's a fascinating little insight into how almost pregrouping practices lasted well into BR days and raises more questions both about the workers train and the odd dispersal of of 5 perfectly good engines. It strikes me that someone wanted to rid the WR of steam very quickly ( a whole other subject) and then several years later dispose of 5 loco's which had barely reached 8 years old, at the same time as the non standard class 14's were being sold off or scrapped. Makes you wonder if brown envelopes were involved, or is it just the good old c**k *p school of management. Still from a modellers point of view we now have reason to run 03's on passenger/worker trains and in industrial use. 

I'm not sure what you mean about Pre-Grouping practices' in the context of the Highworth branch.  The  workmen's trains - at one time shown in the WTT as 'staff' - to Swindon definitely weren't running in 1911, 1938, 1947, and 1949 and appear - as far as II can trace - to have only started running after the passenger service was withdrawn from the branch in 1952.   It appeatrs they were originally shown as 'staff' for the simple reason that it looks as if no, or very minimal fares were paid because the journey was under the free mileage distance for some grades of staff and they were only intended for railway staf.  But later they became fare paying workmen's trains so it was not just railway staff who could use them.

 

The other workmen's service on the branch was of course the one that ran in the opposite direction (albeit as a workmen's service only in the morning) tos erve wartinme factory developments at the Stratton end of the branch.  I presume that one vanished when the advertised passenher service came to an end.

 

The workmen's trains ended when the section of the branch beyond that serving various sidings at the Swindon end was completely closed in 1962 and taht was of cpurse ina period when the railway was making numerous economies and closing all sorts of lines that were lightly trafficked.  it might be that renewals were due which promoted closure and it could equally be that use of the trains was reducing considerably - now nearly 60 years on we don't really know but the closure and the need to use the 'bus instead was definitely an added expense for any railway staff who needed to get to the works from their homes in Highworth.  One source quotes a cost of 15/- a week which against the wages of that tme was a considerable sum out of the household budget.

 

And yes, 'someone' (or quite a lot of 'someones' to be more correct) did decide to get rid of WR steam on an area-by area basis from 1959 onwards.  Just as someone else (or maybe some of the same someones decided that exactly the same would happen in East Anglia from around the same time.  BR's policy was to dieselise plus some electrification schemes - all starting with the 1955 Modernisation Plan but then in a number of locations accelerated in order to reduce losses by cutting operating costs.  And we should never forget that during that time the railway was losing freight traffic at considerable rate hence numerous diesels, which had been order to handle that traffic, no longer had any work.  The big advantage of the 204hp shunters was that there was a ready market for their engines and many of the engines outlasted the locos they had been in by a good many years until another industry (fishing) also went into a steep decline.

[Fat Controller]

D2195 ended its days at the steelworks (Duport) at the end of my street in Llanelli. The company bought a 'job-lot' of about 20 locos. There were 03s, 04s and 05s, along with a solitary Hunslet 0-4-0, which were shared between the Llanelli plant, and that at Briton Ferry, between Neath and Port Talbot. When not in use, they were stabled in the old Llanelly Foundry buildings, which is where the photo was taken.

[waggy]

Back in the mid 70's an 03 worked a Scarborough to York passenger train as far as Malton where a loco from York took over, consisted of two coaches after the booked DMU failed. 

Think it's well documented , can't remember the number

[Nearholmer]

There’s a photo of D2143 working the Highworth train, and an explanation, in MOdern Locomoyltives Illustrated 217.

(my phone has been hacked by Russian Railways, I think!)

[Phil Bullock]

1 hour ago, Fat Controller said:

D2195 ended its days at the steelworks (Duport) at the end of my street in Llanelli. The company bought a 'job-lot' of about 20 locos. There were 03s, 04s and 05s, along with a solitary Hunslet 0-4-0, which were shared between the Llanelli plant, and that at Briton Ferry, between Neath and Port Talbot. When not in use, they were stabled in the old Llanelly Foundry buildings, which is where the photo was taken.

Makes you wonder if BR withdrew a large batch realising there was a niche in the market... but the fact they sat in store at Worcester suggests they were simply surplus to traffic requirements.....

[w124bob]

My comment regarding pre grouping practices was written more as a general thing rather specific to the Highworth branch, I also seem to recall a morning and evening service to the Rowntree halt at York. I'll post a separate thread on staff trains (I worked a few).

[stewartingram]

Further to my earlier comment about an 03 on a Bedford-Hitchin line train:

"D2029 heads a KGX suburban set which formed the SO Henlw Camp leave train, on 3/10/1959". Picture is shown in "Diesels Nationwide" by Keith Montague, Oxford Publishing Co., 1977; ISBN 902888 82 X.

 

Stewart

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, w124bob said:

My comment regarding pre grouping practices was written more as a general thing rather specific to the Highworth branch, I also seem to recall a morning and evening service to the Rowntree halt at York. I'll post a separate thread on staff trains (I worked a few).

I  took a colour transparency of a 'Rowntree train' from Selby standing at Riccall while passengers joined.  The 'Rowntree trains' weren't advertised and called at both Riccall and Escrick long after both stations were officially closed to passenger traffic.

 

Another service for factory etc staff was the Slough to Slough (Industrial) Estate service which I believe first ran during WWII and didn't last too long after the war - possibly to the early 1950s.  The interesting thing about it was that it is the only train service I know of for which ordinary tickets were not issued but passengers were instead issued with pre-printed Edmundson card excess fare tickets, no doubt for some sort of legalistic reason.

[Mike_Walker]

45 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I  took a colour transparency of a 'Rowntree train' from Selby standing at Riccall while passengers joined.  The 'Rowntree trains' weren't advertised and called at both Riccall and Escrick long after both stations were officially closed to passenger traffic.

 

Another service for factory etc staff was the Slough to Slough (Industrial) Estate service which I believe first ran during WWII and didn't last too long after the war - possibly to the early 1950s.  The interesting thing about it was that it is the only train service I know of for which ordinary tickets were not issued but passengers were instead issued with pre-printed Edmundson card excess fare tickets, no doubt for some sort of legalistic reason.

Slough Estate Station opened in March 1919. the exact closure date isn't clear but it appears to be circa 1958.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Courtesy of the web this is the timetable for Highworth in 1960/61.

 

On the subject of workmens trains the Halesowen Railway was an interesting example. Longbridge station was built in 1916 to serve the Austin factory. It never had a public service and the advertised passenger trains on the line were taken off c1919. The WR workmens train from Halesowen ran until 1958 and the New Street train finished two years later.

[TheSignalEngineer]

More Highworth info here:-

http://highworthhistoricalsociety.org.uk/highworth-light-railway/

[Bucoops]

On 09/10/2020 at 16:23, waggy said:

Back in the mid 70's an 03 worked a Scarborough to York passenger train as far as Malton where a loco from York took over, consisted of two coaches after the booked DMU failed. 

Think it's well documented , can't remember the number

 

As I understand it it was a Blackpool to Scarborough train for the last leg from Malton to Scarborough. It was D2089/03089. Now preserved at Mangapps.