Brading, Isle of Wight Transitional 1920s (Phase 1, building up stock)

[Nick C]

I presume you've got a copy of the Maycock/Reed book "Isle of Wight Steam Passenger Rolling Stock"? If not, it's worth getting as it's very useful for things like knowing when certain vehicles were sent over or withdrawn!

 

Some of the Oldbury coaches lasted long enough to carry their SR numbers, but were all withdrawn by 1927 - they'd probably be a scratchbuild job though! Similarly a couple of IWCR ex-LSWR 4-wheelers. 

 

Bembridge branch trains in that era often used a couple of IWCR oddities - the MR bogie composite (maybe kitbash from the Ratio kits?) and the ex-railmotor (definitely a scratchbuild, complete with different wheelbase bogies at each end!). Mike King can supply drawings of both - he's got a sheet of IOW oddities. The FYN ex-MSLR  stock also lasted until 30/31.

 

I'm not sure anyone does the LSWR arc-roof bogie stock that was sent over with the first O2s in 23?

 

D&S also did the LCDR saloons which formed the two pull-push sets - one of which was used on the Bembridge branch while the turntable was upgraded to fit O2s.

[TeakDB]

@wainwright1, I seem to have missed you posting this the first time round, apologies for not saying thanks earlier as I had not, better get a copy and check my layout plan against it!

On 29/12/2020 at 10:47, wainwright1 said:

Have you seen the latest issue of Model Rail.

Layout plan 4 page 93 - Brading Station. Might be of interest.

 

All the best

 

Keep well.

Happy New Year and good modelling.

Ray

 

 

@Nick C I have yes and its definately one of the more useful for coaching stock with other books 'just' supplementing with more photos and formations. Dont tempt me too much with scratchbuiling coaches yet! My plan is to build up kits for stock I want first, while working on 3d files for smaller rolling stock I want also.

 

I know vectis model rail printed himself some oldbury carriages and one day I will enquire after them, especially as some of the undercarriages were reused as flat wagons. I plan on modelling the LSWR one compartment brake at some point to run in mail trains and with a LSWR bogie set as seen in IOW Railway remembered. Again im waiting on finding LSWR Carriages vol 1 to look into these fully although one preliminary thought is potentially cutting and shutting the old roxey mouldings plasticard coach kits.

 

I beleive Recreation 21 has 3D files for the SECR Railmotor coaches used on the bembridge line in 25-27 but I am not sure I can justify the $70 odd price each when I will still have to source bogies ect especially as I think shapeways material isnt the best.  Fortuantly the MSLR and push pull stock fall out of my side of the island and/or time frame, although I need a prodigious amount of the D&S 'regular' LCDR stock. I notice again that there are shapeways prints available for the third class and composites but again im unconvinced by the finish and how they'd look side by side with the 'real' D&S thing.

 

Thank you for the post I enjoyed thinking through all of these and im glad someone else is too! It also shows how incomplete my excel list was already since ive managed to remember various sources for more kits!

 

[TeakDB]

Didn't expect a double post today but just to prove I am actually grinding through the lining (Side looks funny as the gloss varnish for transfers is still drying);

 

Think this might need a bit more work though!

 

 

 

[Ian Morgan]

On 19/12/2020 at 20:44, Nick C said:

 there were very few PO wagons on the island. I think just the Blue Circle ones that ran between Shide quarry and Cement Mills. 

 

 

The only other PO wagons I know of on the island were the Royal Daylight tanks, used for paraffin delivery.

 

Plus, maybe, this whimsical fancy

 

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Ian Morgan
re-loaded image

[TeakDB]

Roundup of a few projects on the desk today that arnt lining;

 

 

Firstly the 5&9 models LBSC 8 Ton goods van. To me this is an absolute dream of a kit, it had quite a bit of flash to remove but after that its goes together really well- I especially like how the spring fit into the solebar and the w irons included from eb models. Another pleasant suprise is the door bangers included which all vans sent to the Isle of Wight had. Only things changed to date were removal of the makers plate on the solebar and a plate on the bottom left of the van body and removal of the lamp irons and replacement in the correct location for the SR. To finish this off as a Passenger luggage in advance van I just need to add a brass roof and floor, a PLA sign on the top right of the van body and addition of a foot board below the door. Only thing to note is it only comes with one sided brakes however im sure you could ask for a second set of brakes for a small additional fee.

 

Secondly is the starting of a rake of lbsc dumb buffered ballast wagons used 1927-31 for the Brading to Sandown line doubling. These are currently sold by roxey. The solebars need a large amount of filling down to fit onto the body of the wagon and for the w irons to fit. The wagon on the left has been built with compensation while the wagon on the right has not- I think for this 7'' wheelbase rigid is fine. I had a mare at first with wobbly wagons but I realised it was down to originally using Dapol wheelsets which are apparently fractionally different than other manufacturers- replacement with Hornby wheelsets solved the issue on all of my affected wagons.

 

Lastly and a bit of a suprise for me was this LSWR parcel van I bought off ebay which was describe as brass and I assumed was the blacksmith kit- turns out it was scratch built out of wood and placed on a plastic chassis. I have removed the roof which will be replaced with brass and have smoothed down all the rough parts of the paintwork/ glue- after replacement window bars, and further detailing +repainting this will run with my stroudley set. Bit of a shame to rebuild parts of this scratch build but I like to think im merely giving it a new lease of life similar to heritage railway rebuilds.

 

EDIT; The ballast wagons are designed for compensation so I have now built all of them as such.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by TeakDB

[TeakDB]

Small amount of progress on lining but as im going to be doing covid work in Manchester for february I figured ill take the coaches with me to do that in the hotel room so im just finishing up other bits untill then.

 

The 5&9 models van is very nearly finished (matt varnish, couplings and transfer for the pla board). Slowed down by a few issues- namely needing different springs than the older versions supplied with the kit and having to lower the floor so I could avoid packing the w irons to height. And yes the V hanger is meant to be off centre. Although I cut the brass roof large by about a mm or so im very happy and will be replacing the plasticard roof of the smallbrook van in time- the resin roof insert for the smallbrook van is excellent for bending the brass over to form the roof profile however.

 

 

This is where im at with the first three ballast wagons- im sure i'll never find a definitive answer as to weather the solebars on these were red oxide or black so ive gone with what I like the look off. The southern wagon series describes some as being in lbscr livery untill scrapping but I will think about how that will look in a rake of wagons after ive worked out how to weather these to an inch of their life.

 

Im also looking at getting the 24ft lswr van ready for lining which so far has involved replacing the window bars but im having trouble with the wheels and bearings on it so have some teething problems to sort out.

Edited January 22, 2021 by TeakDB

[LBSC123]

Looking good @TeakDB!

 

Is this the sort of colour scheme you’re going for on the Ballast Wagons? 

[TeakDB]

13 minutes ago, LBSC123 said:

Looking good @TeakDB!

 

Is this the sort of colour scheme you’re going for on the Ballast Wagons? 

 

By and large yes-Im using Halford red primer for the orange/red oxide paint. I havent seen this photo before so thanks, I didnt know (or forgot) one of these ex secr(ish) wagons had survived- since I couldn't find any kits to bash into them these are actually fairly high up my wishlist of wagons to print.

It's interesting how they have painted the solebars and ironwork including the brake guard but not the buffers- if you look at the bluebell railway you'll see different interpretations of SR engineering schemes on their wagons aswell. Added to my internal debate is whether all the dumb buffered wagons were repainted before sending to the Island (so only a few years of weathering) or were they shipped 'as is'. Southern wagons vol 2 seems to suggest this with its lbscr livery comment and it is also potentially hinted out in Rails on the Wight when MacLeod talks about turning out new ballast wagons as their replacements- potentially suggesting that it was up to Ryde works to paint the transferred engineering stock.

 

[LBSC123]

2 hours ago, TeakDB said:

 

By and large yes-Im using Halford red primer for the orange/red oxide paint. I havent seen this photo before so thanks, I didnt know (or forgot) one of these ex secr(ish) wagons had survived- since I couldn't find any kits to bash into them these are actually fairly high up my wishlist of wagons to print.

It's interesting how they have painted the solebars and ironwork including the brake guard but not the buffers- if you look at the bluebell railway you'll see different interpretations of SR engineering schemes on their wagons aswell. Added to my internal debate is whether all the dumb buffered wagons were repainted before sending to the Island (so only a few years of weathering) or were they shipped 'as is'. Southern wagons vol 2 seems to suggest this with its lbscr livery comment and it is also potentially hinted out in Rails on the Wight when MacLeod talks about turning out new ballast wagons as their replacements- potentially suggesting that it was up to Ryde works to paint the transferred engineering stock.

 

Hi @TeakDB, glad the picture is of some use it was taken during my visit in the summer. I agree about some of the details and I am not entirely sure if I would copy it, but it's a useful starting point nevertheless. I'm not too familiar with the engineering colour schemes, is this what is known as the SR 'Vermillion' or a different colour all together?

The Dumb buffered wagons look rather lovely, as does the 5&9 models Van. Certainly something to aim for myself...

 

[TeakDB]

18 hours ago, LBSC123 said:

Hi @TeakDB, glad the picture is of some use it was taken during my visit in the summer. I agree about some of the details and I am not entirely sure if I would copy it, but it's a useful starting point nevertheless. I'm not too familiar with the engineering colour schemes, is this what is known as the SR 'Vermillion' or a different colour all together?

The Dumb buffered wagons look rather lovely, as does the 5&9 models Van. Certainly something to aim for myself...

 

 

Just confirms I need to revisit soon.

 

SR venetian red was what was used at the ends of brake vans, vermillion is more of a loco buffer colour as far as I know. The colour for engineer stock is like many railway shades a bit up for debate. MacLeod seems to have been one of the few to call it red oxide whearas others have described it more orange like your photo above. To muddy the waters further theres a comment in southern style about how little contrast they think there was between venetian red and the engineers colour. I think the halfords red primer is slightly browner than venetian red so itll do for me even though I reckon on probablities the wagon above is probably in a more accurate shade.

 

This is where im up to at the moment pre matt varnish and weathering. Unfortuantly the hmrs transfer sheet only provides the correct size SRs for two wagons so im going to have to look for alternatives.

 

[TeakDB]

First two finished- am going to have to wait for more hmrs sheets to finish off the rest but as im away wednesday will imagine it will be a while before the rake of 9 is finished.

 

Not convinced I have in any way captured the look of peeling paintwork but I did find this very useful picture of a bluebell engineering wagon which was last overhauled in 2002 (painted in the same orange shade as the above iow ballast wagon) on the Bluebell Railway Goods Division Facebook page so im very happy with this end shade.

 

 

LSWR parcels van will not be ready to take with me for lining as im replacing the axleboxes/springs with the correct panter type from Dart Castings to help its currently running.

 

EDIT: Since Im going to have a lot of HMRS transfer sheets if anyone wants SR, SECR or LBSCR transfers sent to them from that sheet just message me and im happy to post them over to you.

Edited January 24, 2021 by TeakDB

[wainwright1]

15 hours ago, TeakDB said:

Not convinced I have in any way captured the look of peeling paintwork

 

EDIT: Since Im going to have a lot of HMRS transfer sheets if anyone wants SR, SECR or LBSCR transfers sent to them from that sheet just message me and im happy to post them over to you.

Regarding peeling paintwork:

Not done this for a long time, but you could try applying some plastic solvent using a fine brush along the grain on the painted side a fine stroke at a time. Possibly one of the more aggressive solvents as used for ABS plastic. This can have an affect on some gloss type paints making them bubble up along the brush mark, then when it evaporates off the paint sets again leaving slightly crackled effect. You might need to apply a decent coat of wood colour acrylic paint as a base coat first though to show through, as that should not be affected by the solvent.

I would practice this first on an unimportant item or test piece to judge the effect. Let the gloss dry well before testing.

I used to have some varnish from a range of acrylic paints which dried to a crackle finish, but am not sure if that is still available. It was some time ago.

By the way, is that last wagon on the Bluebell one of a type that Five79 have just re-issued a kit for ? I have ordered some.

Hope that this is of interest.

Ray

P.S. Always interested in SE&CR and LB&SCR transfers. Got lots of kits to build.

Edited January 25, 2021 by wainwright1
added info

[TeakDB]

@wainwright1 thanks for that- I had thought about something similar but I hadn't the forethought to undercoat these first three with a wood colour. I think i'll test it on my lnwr almost IWR wagon as I feel peeling and fading the black paintwork could look fairly good.

 

Although im absolutely no expert on SR and BR wagons the chivers kits arnt of the same diagram as the bluebell 'tunny' wagon. Bluebell has a page for it (below) and it predates the chivers kits by a good few years.

 

Going back to the model rail article, I thought it was a nice idea to have Bembridge on the other board hidden by a scenic break but the neccesity of space obviously shortened the platform and accentuated the curves- it isnt disimilar to my now dismantled first LNER layout. After I return from manchester Im going to build the platform end fiddleyard and get the platforms and buildings started- I figure the junction board doesnt need to be up at the same time as theres only a building or two of interest on it and it lets me play with the few magnets on the platform board before I commit to wiring up the rest and building a control panel ect. 

 

I'll message you re the transfers when they arrive- heads up i'll be cutting all the Es and Ds out of the Goods Brake lettering as its the only source of those letters I can find!

 

 

 

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pic2/wagons/62002.html

[wainwright1]

5 hours ago, TeakDB said:

Although im absolutely no expert on SR and BR wagons the chivers kits arnt of the same diagram as the bluebell 'tunny' wagon. Bluebell has a page for it (below) and it predates the chivers kits by a good few years.

 

I'll message you re the transfers when they arrive- heads up i'll be cutting all the Es and Ds out of the Goods Brake lettering as its the only source of those letters I can find!

 

Chivers do actually do a Southern Tunny kit diagram 1771. The Bluebell page does not state the diagram, but the information on both says built in 1928.

 

Regarding the transfers, I had to do the same with the P, W and D from the gunpowder wagon for the Maunsell Lynes ballast wagon. Only one pair on the sheet.

 

This will eventually receive a ballast load and weathering, plus five others for my PW train on Hawkhurst. I have painted the wooden planks quite light, as this would have been a fairly new modern wagon in late SE&CR days.

All the best

Ray

Edited January 25, 2021 by wainwright1
Added info

[TeakDB]

@wainwright1 you're absolutely right, sorry I thought you had meant the three very new BR(S) wagons announced in the last few days as opposed to a new one already in his range. 

 

Very nice looking wagon there- love the bolt detail on the inside and the rust application- was this paint or powder? 

 

Finally please keep posting pictures here I appreciate seeing someone elses models as much as finishing mine.

[wainwright1]

Hi Teak.

 

The rusty bolt heads were painted.

 

I also stain and grain the planking using matt varnish which has a few drops of paint added and mixed into it.

This varnish mix I also applied as a final coat after I have done some weathering with dilute acrylic paints. This seals everything in and tends to concentrate the colour slightly in corners and between planks etc. The colour of the paint added varies according to the type of wagon.

 

All the best

Ray

 

P.S. I tend to use Humbrol matt varnish which can be good, but do test it on a sample piece first to make sure that it dries properly matt and without any steaks in the finish.  I have made up some test pieces with different patches of paint on for this purpose. If you get a dodgy tin, take it back to your supplier tell them the problem and ask them to change it for another tin from a different batch. The batch numbers are shown on the label on the bottom of the tins.

[TeakDB]

And now for something completely different as I wait for parts to finish the lswr parcels van and transfers for the lbscr wagons.

 

Started turning the Kernow push pull o2 into (fittingly) W22 Brading- this will be pre nameplates though.  Looking at photos of the adams boilered o2s I just snipped away all the plastic and wiring I didnt want with some brass sprue clippers which has left behind some small holes or rough spots. The westinghouse resevoir tank is posed on for now and is from Vectis 3d design. 

 

 

To complete the transformation it needs (deep breath) renumbering, the two copper tubes from the westinghouse reservoir to be fitted, paint touch ups, lining of the front splashers, addition of the left hand tank step, removal of the nem pockets and fitting of screw couplings + pipes, route discs ect. Fortuantly as the O2s on my layout will only be on the Ventnor- Ryde passenger services I dont have to fit dingham couplings.

Edited January 27, 2021 by TeakDB

[TeakDB]

Todays progress on the O2 

 

Renumbered on both sides, removed the nem pockets front and rear and fitted the westinghouse pipes. Issues so far are the colour difference between the hmrs or fox transfers and the original 'southern' and that the olive paint is much much thinner than on the Hornby terriers with the consequence of removing some when removing the original numbers with a fibreglass pencil.

 

Id also love to know why the splashers were lined in this fashion as even pictures of the original 207 dont have this style - i'll look for some lining transfers at some point.

[TeakDB]

Back to the workbench for three weeks.

First job on has been rewheeling the lswr luggage van and lbsc horsebox. Ive now used Hornby coach wheels with dart castings maunsell overlays which has improved the running quality greatly. Ive added the appropriate springs/axleboxes to both and am going to crack on with the luggage vans skewed brakes and stepboards before adding the end steps on both to finish. 

 

[TeakDB]

Question before I update on a few bits i've finished today. The below image is the only I can find of the three LSWR passenger luggage vans (unrebuilt) shipped to the island in 1926, it seems to suggest they were shipped in lswr salmon and brown if you notice the two tones on both in shot vans- has anyone got any input on this as I would definately like to paint my current van as such. I also wonder if they would of been able to be repainted by the 1926 summer season.

[LBSC123]

I’m not so sure it’s Salmon Pink and Chocolate Brown, they started painting LSWR vehicles into holly green from 1920, I think, and it seems to say ‘Southern Railway’ in between windows below the roof. I wonder if it’s just a reflection on account of the body side curvature which is making the colours seem different? 

[wainwright1]

Some of the 02's were shipped over still in LSWR livery. I wonder if some coaches just had the lettering changed while the Southern were making their mind up about what their new livery was going to be ?

 

By the way Pete, I do not think that we will be coming over to the island with the bus this year, as I believe that the Beer and Buses weekend has been cancelled again. Hopefully, should be back to normal next year.

 

All the best

 

Ray

[TeakDB]

Thanks for the replies both. @LBSC123 spot on that green became the normal in 1921 for the lswr but in 'southern style- lswr' it states that surburban block sets were the first in line for this rollout and in 'Southern Style- The southern railway' on page 98 it states that the southerns first carriage superintendant wanted stocks of old paint to be used up with southern lettering for economy- I only wish that either of these books had an image of this scenario with which to compare against. @wainwright1 Im aware of the 2 O2s in 1923 and that apparently some of the lbscr ballast wagons stayed in lbscr livery untill their end in 1931 so im starting to think its possible.

 

At the moment I am leaning towards these still being brown and salmon as they look very similar in shades to a lot of lswr carriage images elsewhere- I think i'll just have a look at a few more maunsell green carriages and see if this could be an artifact of the lighting but Im not sure it can when it looks so consistent across both coaches. Im also thinking how interesting a rake of metropolitan 8 wheelers in teak with a urie green beyer peacock and a salmon and brown luggage van would look....

[TeakDB]

Well ignore everything I said before, looking at other pictures of freshly painted maunsell green coaches in sunlight a similar effect is produced- ohwell! Heres what ive been up too today.

 

Finally finished this off with end steps and later lbscr axleboxes from 5&9 models.

 

Finished off another lbscr open wagon in the ashford lettering style, and had a bash at painting up my IWR lookalike wagon- although im fairly happy I will limit this to very early on as its no way near as faded paintwork wise as the pictures of the late survivors- using the black weathering powders over the top rather negated the khaki/woodish paint underneath.

 

Lastly the ballast wagon rake is now up to 4 wagons (just waiting for varnish to set before adding the weathering powders to the left two.

 

My final question of the day is what to people recommend for chemical blackening of brass and nickel silver? I have a lot of couplings like those above I think I want to start blackening rather than painting.

[Ian Morgan]

Despite its name, 'gun metal blue' is what you need for blackening most metals. Does not work well on solder though.