6231 Duchess of Atholl-3 rail cast metal, Hornby Dublo(?)

[rodent279]

I have a cast metal Duchess of Atholl, which is in bits, having got part way through conversion to 2 rail. I assume it dates back to the 1950's. the conversion job was started way back, probably in the 60's or early 70's, and seems to have got as far as fitting insulated wheels that look like Triang/Hornby "Hall" wheels, but was never completed. I have most of the bits, the ones missing should be sourceable.

It's not in any way immaculate, nowhere near mint, and we haven't got the box. Most of the paint is still present, but there are scratches and bits that have flaked off. The tender is dented, but that should be possible to fix. The numbers and nameplates are still intact. Trawling through ebay, it seems that if I repaired it back to working order as a 3 rail loco, it would get maybe £50-£70. MIB (Mint In Box) examples can go for silly money, hundreds of £.

As it's tatty and even when repaired would not be "original", I am considering fitting Romford or Gibson wheels & giving it a full repaint (in LMS maroon).

Am I turning a potentially valuable relic into an undesirable bodge? What does the hive mind think?

 

(sorry, no photos, it's in a box 100 miles away).

 

cheers N

[Pandora]

I have such a Duchess of Atholl, in LMS livery,  my example is one of the earliest,  the model ID is handwritten in ink on the underside of the cab roof,  the tooling was soon altered so the model ID was cast into the cab roof.  The Duchess is very toylike, fit bigger driving wheels and they foul the body,  I would simply clean and tidy your  model  for static display, the current  Hornby Duchess is the one worth having

[Mick Bonwick]

From your description I don't think this would be a valuable relic. If I was in your position I'd forge ahead with the bodging process to achieve something usable that can be called yours.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Mick Bonwick
Inserting a missing letter. I don't think that the word vauable exists outside my own dictionary.

[Il Grifone]

'Duchess of Atholl' is not very valuable. I bought a couple for around £20, but it was quite a while ago and would probably be about £30-40 in today's devalued currency. This might help (a repaint would be about 'C' on their table:

 

https://www.toymart.com/Hornby-Dublo-EDL2-Duchess-of-Atholl/12721

 

There are a few rare variants which would be the 'hundreds of pounds'. Fitted with blinkers (very rare factory repair), CPR livery, and the blob where there should be a recess on the boiler (apparently a 'Friday afternoon job', where someone forgot to a fit a part to the die and a few got through quality control). Early examples have the horseshoe magnet, but there does not seem to be any premium for this. Mine was the victim of a detailing attempt, fitted with 26mm scale wheels and went like the proverbial door. She has been tamed a bit with the proper Dublo wheels, but still is rather faster than the real thing. If the finish is reasonable, I would attempt to restore her to original condition, but if not, a repaint is certainly viable. if the wheels are really Tri-ang the chassis and drive gear must have been bored out to 9/64" diameter (Originally they were 1/8") and will require bushing. The necessary bushes are available on eBay etc. A new gear may be advisable, but check the type as Dublo changed to a higher ratio about 1954 (too late for Atholls, but it could have been replaced).

 

AFAIK the Duchess was finally released in 1948 (announced pre-war but never issued) and switched from horseshoe to AlNiCo magnet in 1949. The model was replaced in 1953 with 'Duchess of Montrose', but I suspect few/none were manufactured in 1952 due to Korean War shortages.

[cypherman]

This is my Duchess of Atholl which dates back to about 1955. I converted to 2 rail about 40 years ago and is still going strong. I have restored the paint scheme back to it's original H/D scheme about 4 years ago.

Edited October 9, 2020 by cypherman

[rodent279]

Thanks all, some good advice there. I need to assess it properly, but, unless it's one of the rare ones, it sounds like a repaint isn't going to drastically devalue it, as long as it's done reasonably well. I may just reassemble as is and stick it on display, I'm not sure.

It may not live up to modern standards, but it's still a nice model.

[cypherman]

14 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Thanks all, some good advice there. I need to assess it properly, but, unless it's one of the rare ones, it sounds like a repaint isn't going to drastically devalue it, as long as it's done reasonably well. I may just reassemble as is and stick it on display, I'm not sure.

It may not live up to modern standards, but it's still a nice model.

Hi,

It may not be quite as detailed as modern standards but it will pull a damned site better than most modern engines. Plus if you are up to it you can add all the extra details your self. I chose not to on this engine as I just wanted it back to original spec due to sentimental reasons. But from my posts you can see I do modernise quite a few very old engines. My mantra being 'upgrade and modernise an older engine rather splash out a lot of money on something you can make your self'. You get an old engine and for about 25% of the cost and you will get about 80% of the engine you originally wanted plus part of your heart and soul in the one you have worked on. Also the satisfaction that you have an original engine on your layout.

Edited October 9, 2020 by cypherman

[5050]

Are you sure it's Hornby?  There was a cast Duchess body made and sold by Rowell in the early 50's.  Having Triang or similar wheels rather than Hornby's own sounds a bit suspicious.  Can you supply photos?

[cypherman]

1 hour ago, 5050 said:

Are you sure it's Hornby?  There was a cast Duchess body made and sold by Rowell in the early 50's.  Having Triang or similar wheels rather than Hornby's own sounds a bit suspicious.  Can you supply photos?

Hi,

It was quite common to use Triang/Hornby wheels to convert engines back then. They were much more readily available. Mine if I remember right have Crownline wheels. But then again it was 40 years ago. I converted the Duchess, Castle, A4, N2 and a 2-6-4 tank at the same time. All with what I think were Crownline wheels

Edited October 9, 2020 by cypherman

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, 5050 said:

Are you sure it's Hornby?  There was a cast Duchess body made and sold by Rowell in the early 50's.  Having Triang or similar wheels rather than Hornby's own sounds a bit suspicious.  Can you supply photos?

Fairly sure, it looks like Hornby. Can't do any photos for a couple of weeks at least.

[cypherman]

Hi all,

If memory serves me right it has Hornby stamped on the body at the back near the cab. Mine is boxed away and I cannot get at it at the moment to check.

[rodent279]

We have actually got 2, the other one bought by my father in the last 15 years or so. I've never had them side by side to compare, as the original has been kept in a box upstairs. It'll be interesting to do a comparison.

[Il Grifone]

The Rowell model has a cast tender (rather a flight of fancy), whereas the Dublo one has a tinplate body on a cast chassis (with undersize wheels -open spoke for 'Atholl; and (retrograde step) solid backed on 'Montrose'. The later Cities have plastic bodies and wheels). Dublo models have the model reference maker's name under the cab roof.

 

As the prototype has a welded tender (most of them anyway) the tinplate version is actually quite realistic, The cast/plastic tenders are well overscale in thickness.

The main fault is the firebox shape. none of the above get it right.

[rodent279]

In that case, it's definitely Hornby, as the tender is tinplate, with spoked wheels.