How to empty coal wagons that are at the back of the goods yard?

[Tallpaul69]

Good Afternoon One and All,

In the 12ftx 4ft first stage of my WR 1960/2 layout, I need to empty coal wagons or remove coal loads from wagons that are 2ft 6ins away at the back of the goods yard. Reaching them is a little difficult as the station buildings could catch on my clothing.

 

Any brilliant solutions to this problem?

I have used wagons disappearing behind backscenes previously, but for a number of reasons this isn't possible this time!

 

Many thanks

Paul

[BoD]

Make the load on a piece of card that sits in the wagon.  Fix a strip of metal underneath the card.  Pick the load out with a magnet attached to a stick.  
 

If you like fishing attach the magnet to a piece of string attached to the end of your stick.

[The Johnster]

I guarantee that the fishing rod method will mean you never have to empty them again; everyone will want a go!

[Ray Von]

I was toying with this idea, but with an electromagnet inside a building to extract and also drop loads.  

[BoD]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

I guarantee that the fishing rod method will mean you never have to empty them again; everyone will want a go!

Those of us of a certain age will remember that magnetic fishing game.

 

Seriously though the magnet on string is not as daft as it seems - if you do go down this route you need to give some thought to being able to lift the load out vertically to save derailing stock.

[Tallpaul69]

Thanks to all of you who have confirmed that my idea along these lines was not so daft!

I am thinking of using something a bit more solid for the vertical element of the system.

Maybe, a solid piece of wood or dowl rather than a fishing line.

 

Please keep the comments coming,  and I will post more details once I have mocked up and trialed my ideas!

 

Best regards

Paul 

[The Johnster]

4 hours ago, BoD said:

Those of us of a certain age will remember that magnetic fishing game.

 

Seriously though the magnet on string is not as daft as it seems - if you do go down this route you need to give some thought to being able to lift the load out vertically to save derailing stock.

Gantry crane.  Multiple gantry cranes positioned to unload entire train simultaneously.

 

I put some thought into this when I was designing my colliery operation, considering several ideas involving unloading wagons into a hopper to load the next train, or tippling the whole train out into a hopper or directly to the next train, magnetic collection of loads and so on.  In the end the system works thus; there are two trains, a loaded train and an empty train.  The colliery is off stage, imagined, but the exchange road isn't.  The empties start the cycle by arriving from the fy and shunting to the exchange road, where the train loco and brake van retire out of the way and the colliery loco emerges from the headshunt and propels the train to the offstage colliery, actually directly back to the fy road it just came out of, there being a direct connection from 3 of the fy roads to both the running line into the station and the colliery exchange road.  The colliery loco then draws the loaded out of one of the other 2 fy roads, retreats to it's headshunt, and the train loco draw the loadeds off the exchange roads on to BR metals where it shunts the van and attaches to the front of the train, then hauls it back to the fy road it came out of.  The loco and brake van are then crane shunted to the empties ready for the next cycle.  

 

This means there is no handling of mineral wagons and the trains can be semi-permanently coupled in sets.  No loading or unloading is needed, and handling is limited to the BR loco and brake van being transferred in the fy between the LDs and MTs.  There is also the advantage that the loaded and empty trains can appear on the layout at the same time, though this does not normally happen.

[bazjones1711]

There's always this route !

 

[Tallpaul69]

13 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Gantry crane.  Multiple gantry cranes positioned to unload entire train simultaneously.

 

I put some thought into this when I was designing my colliery operation, considering several ideas involving unloading wagons into a hopper to load the next train, or tippling the whole train out into a hopper or directly to the next train, magnetic collection of loads and so on.  In the end the system works thus; there are two trains, a loaded train and an empty train.  The colliery is off stage, imagined, but the exchange road isn't.  The empties start the cycle by arriving from the fy and shunting to the exchange road, where the train loco and brake van retire out of the way and the colliery loco emerges from the headshunt and propels the train to the offstage colliery, actually directly back to the fy road it just came out of, there being a direct connection from 3 of the fy roads to both the running line into the station and the colliery exchange road.  The colliery loco then draws the loaded out of one of the other 2 fy roads, retreats to it's headshunt, and the train loco draw the loadeds off the exchange roads on to BR metals where it shunts the van and attaches to the front of the train, then hauls it back to the fy road it came out of.  The loco and brake van are then crane shunted to the empties ready for the next cycle.  

 

This means there is no handling of mineral wagons and the trains can be semi-permanently coupled in sets.  No loading or unloading is needed, and handling is limited to the BR loco and brake van being transferred in the fy between the LDs and MTs.  There is also the advantage that the loaded and empty trains can appear on the layout at the same time, though this does not normally happen.

Unfortunately, as a small town general goods yard Thame doesn't handle enough coal to warrant the expense of things like gantry cranes. The nearest gantry crane was that employed to unload timber in High Wycombe's North Yard - a feature i won't be modelling even though my second station is High Wycombe. This will have room only for a few sidings adjacent to the Station, so North Yard will not exist.

Instead my High Wycombe shunter will periodically trip from the station sidings round to Thame, swap wagons and trip back again to mimic the trips the real shunter made to the North Yard!

Same goes for ideas of wagon tipping equipment often found at ports or NER type coal drops which I don't think the GWR ever used!

Keep the ideas coming?

Cheers

Paul  

[Ray Von]

Could you post a picture of the section?  That might help inspire people! 

[Broadway Clive]

As loaded wagon(s) would be unlikely to be emptied manually during the time of an operating session, they can be swapped for empties between sessions ready for next time. Anything that cant be reached by hand can be moved by loco.

[Tallpaul69]

1 hour ago, Ray Von said:

Could you post a picture of the section?  That might help inspire people! 

Sorry Ray,

there is nothing built yet! The problem became apparent when looking at a large scale copy of the plans!

[Oldddudders]

50 minutes ago, Broadway Clive said:

As loaded wagon(s) would be unlikely to be emptied manually during the time of an operating session, they can be swapped for empties between sessions ready for next time. Anything that cant be reached by hand can be moved by loco.

You have it in a nutshell. Since none of the suggestions so far remotely resemble prototype operations in this sort of yard, the fact that Heath Robinson human intervention is necessary anyway means why bother? Resetting the stage for the next scene, as it were, gives you the best chance of a plausible operating session next time. So drag 'em out somehow, empty (good ideas for this aplenty in the previous posts) and leave the yard looking as if it needs a shunt, w empties ready to go. 

[Tallpaul69]

43 minutes ago, Broadway Clive said:

As loaded wagon(s) would be unlikely to be emptied manually during the time of an operating session, they can be swapped for empties between sessions ready for next time. Anything that cant be reached by hand can be moved by loco.

Hi Clive,

I was trying to come up with a solution that avoided manually handling the wagons!

My aim in my layouts is not to handle stock unless it is necessary to remove it from or place it on the layout.

Agreed not all wagons will be emptied on the day they arrive, but i think the way wagons were charged for was designed to minimise the time they spent idle!

 

I also aim to minimise un prototypical to timetable movements, and un prototypical traffic on the trains (I model simplified versions of real locations to their real WTTs).

However, if I can't do it any other way, then an extra train clearing empties will have to be run. What I am not prepared to do is run a train taking away the full wagons and replacing them with empties.

Best regards

Paul  

[Ray Von]

39 minutes ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Sorry Ray,

there is nothing built yet! The problem became apparent when looking at a large scale copy of the plans!

Oh, I see!  Maybe a sketch of what you're describing?  Sorry if I'm being a bit slow on the uptake - so, are the wagons going into the goods shed itself or into a siding adjacent to it, can they be seen at all times? Cheers, Ray. 

[Tallpaul69]

20 hours ago, Ray Von said:

Oh, I see!  Maybe a sketch of what you're describing?  Sorry if I'm being a bit slow on the uptake - so, are the wagons going into the goods shed itself or into a siding adjacent to it, can they be seen at all times? Cheers, Ray. 

Hi Ray,

Yes, the wagons can be seen at all times, as being coal wagons they would not normally go into the goods shed!

Here is a sketch of the layout, the coal wagons go into siding the back of the yard. The squares mark out the feet dimensions.

 

 

The siding I am talking about is siding 4 which has been lengthened since this sketch was prepared.

 

Hope this makes the problem clearer?

Cheers

Paul

 

[Ray Von]

Cheers, yes that's made it a lot clearer.  Still doesn't solve your conundrum unfortunately!  I like to minimise the "hand of God" as much as I can on my layouts, but I'm stumped on this one - I'd definitely solve the problem with an electromagnet, but that could only work if the wagon were obscured at the time of activation. Are there any buildings nearby that could serve as a screen? 

[Tallpaul69]

10 minutes ago, Ray Von said:

Cheers, yes that's made it a lot clearer.  Still doesn't solve your conundrum unfortunately!  I like to minimise the "hand of God" as much as I can on my layouts, but I'm stumped on this one - I'd definitely solve the problem with an electromagnet, but that could only work if the wagon were obscured at the time of activation. Are there any buildings nearby that could serve as a screen? 

Yes, I think the magnet solution is best. I don't mind doing a "magnet" coal removal at the end or beginning of a session.

 

To me this is preferable to running unrealistic trains with full wagons coming out of the yard and empty ones going in!

 

Regards

Paul

[Ray Von]

Just now, Tallpaul69 said:

To me this is preferable to running unrealistic trains with full wagons coming out of the yard and empty ones going in!

I quite agree, I have a similar issue on my current layout - I'll have a scrap yard on a siding served by a shunter and one or two 16t wagons (taking or delivering  - I haven't decided which yet...)   The point is I can't stand the idea of trucks arriving and leaving in the same state!  I'm thinking of housing the magnet inside the roof of a goods shed (which will be where scrap is delivered) and activating it by remote means...