gazer117 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Hi, is anyone able to help with working out the orgins of the middle van in the photo. To my untrained eye the left van looks like an LNER fruit van that's had a replacement roof as I cant see an sign of vents, and the furthest right looks like an LMS van. My question is what is the van is in the middle as it appears to be plywood sided, but other than that I'm stuck? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Moxy Posted October 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2020 It's probably an LMS 12T ventilated van to Dia 2103. A clearer picture is on this website. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) LMS. Can't remember the diagram though and my books are out of reach. Something like D2103 Jason Beaten to it by Moxy. Edited October 9, 2020 by Steamport Southport 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazer117 Posted October 9, 2020 Author Share Posted October 9, 2020 Thank you both for really quick replies, yes i agree it looks like a Dia2103 van. The second question is are there any 4mm kits out there for that diagram van, as my quick google has drawn a blank ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Moxy Posted October 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2020 I'm not aware of any 4mm kits for this particular van, unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2020 I don't know of an LMS one either. Parkside do the LNER plywood van with the same doors but that had diagonal strapping on the sides. I'm not sure if they would make a suitable subject for kitbashing. It may be possible with an LMS chassis substituted for the LNER one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted October 10, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2020 With a bit of creative cross kitting there aren't many vans that you can't build, a bit of plasticard here and there helps too, the issue being finding the right bit in the first place, involves a lot of books, and nowadays, a lot of internetting, a tad easier than back in the day! Search out Mick Moores excellent articles in various MRJ's. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted October 10, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2020 There was also the similar D2112 vans, which also had the same doors. 6 were built for fruit & vegetable traffic, with extra roof ventilators and 4 'boxes', presumably some sort of ventilator, low down on the body side. Plate 114 & 115 LMS Wagons Vol 1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 65179 Posted October 10, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2020 In 2mm scale I've made a D2103 from the corresponding LNER plywood van body on an LMS 8 shoe fitted chassis: In this view I've removed the diagonal strapping and added replacement stanchions and vents from microstrip and plasticard. I've yet to raise the sides a little and get the correct LMS flatter roof profile. Simon 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) There was a drawing in a Railway Modeller (I think) and in The LMS Wagon (Essery & Morgan, D&C 1977). I scratchbuilt one when I was about 20 when I was looking at doing Snow Hill in 1962 in 18.83mm gauge: I actually made a pattern using styrene and cast two sets in resin. One day I might get round to lettering and numbering it! Edited October 10, 2020 by BernardTPM 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 1 hour ago, BernardTPM said: There was a drawing in a Railway Modeller (I think) and in The LMS Wagon (Essery & Morgan, D&C 1977). I scratchbuilt one when I was about 20 when I was looking at doing Snow Hill in 1962 in 18.83mm gauge: I actually made a pattern using styrene and cast two sets in resin. One day I might get round to lettering and numbering it! Was it Bob Essery who did a series of articles about LMS vans in Railway Modeller, some time in the 1970s? I built one from the photos (not sure there were drawings?). Not up to Bernard's standards, though I did letter it..... The 'little boxes' on the Fruit Van version were pressed steel 'scoops'. The BR design Fruit had similar ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted October 10, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2020 4 hours ago, kevinlms said: There was also the similar D2112 vans, which also had the same doors. 6 were built for fruit & vegetable traffic, with extra roof ventilators and 4 'boxes', presumably some sort of ventilator, low down on the body side. Plate 114 & 115 LMS Wagons Vol 1. I found an article in MRC for 1975 January, by Roger Ellis & Ian Nuttall of the D2112 version. There is a photo of a completed model. References a drawing in Railway Modeller 1967 February. I don't have this issue, so unable to check. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markw Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 I have converted one from a Parkside PC42 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) One thing to note if converting the LNER plywood van (also available from the N Gauge Society incidentally) is that the roof profile will need changing. This can be seen in the leading photo in this thread. While both LMS & LNER vans had single sliding doors and sometimes could look quite similar from the side, the LMS roofs were a noticeably larger radius (i.e. flatter). This is a good way of telling them apart in a 3/4 photo of goods train. Edited October 10, 2020 by BernardTPM 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Yes. There was a few articles in the mid to late 1960s by Ken Morgan and Bob Essery. ISTR some were credited as being by The LMS Society. Most of the prototype information was reprinted in the LMS Wagon book BernardTPM refers to. Some were also constructional articles such as building a wagon from plastikard which was some new-fangled material. D1666 ISTR. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
watfordtmc Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 This van is, as noted by other posters, an LMS D2103 van, one of those originally built with hand brake only and subsequently fitted with vacuum brakes by BR as part of the modernisation plan. It would originally have been fitted with 4 No. roof vents as well. The Railway Modeller article can be found in RM February 1967, Vol. 18, No. 196, pp 50-51. It was a constructional article with brief prototype notes, a good drawing (by Arthur Whitehead) and two LMS official photos, one each of hand brake and vacuum fitted vehicles, as well as the constructional notes, which did use the then new medium of ‘styrene sheet’, although the rooves (two models were built) were made out of ordinary card. British Rail LMR, Smokey Bourne, Bob Essery, Tony Nixon and Arthur Whitehead all get credited in the article, although I think that they were all members of the LMS Society, other than BR! As well as the LMS Wagon book referred to, there is also page on these vans in: An Illustrated History of LMS Wagons Volume 1, Essery RJ, Oxford Publishing Company 1981, pp 58. This includes the same two LMS photos, as well as a photo of one of the fitted vans lettered ‘FISH’ in BR days, and a copy of the diagram book page. There’s a later reprint of this volume (by Ian Allan?) as well. Regards TMc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Yes the LMS wagon books are still in print. Both the Illustrated History and The LMS Wagon. Now by Crecy. https://www.amazon.co.uk/LMS-Wagon-R-J-Essery/dp/0715373579/ref=pd_sim_14_1/257-5392843-9196058?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0715373579&pd_rd_r=ff3ab306-758c-4665-bf97-7023d2743d17&pd_rd_w=8jeLt&pd_rd_wg=Rsrhl&pf_rd_p=8e67ecf5-6d33-440e-afdb-8f596dbe82f6&pf_rd_r=7PFPPAQ1EQ6NW9EBDAJ2&psc=1&refRID=7PFPPAQ1EQ6NW9EBDAJ2 Just wish they would do another run of the GWR book. The more recent, expanded version. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 17 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: Yes the LMS wagon books are still in print. Both the Illustrated History and The LMS Wagon. Now by Crecy. https://www.amazon.co.uk/LMS-Wagon-R-J-Essery/dp/0715373579/ref=pd_sim_14_1/257-5392843-9196058?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0715373579&pd_rd_r=ff3ab306-758c-4665-bf97-7023d2743d17&pd_rd_w=8jeLt&pd_rd_wg=Rsrhl&pf_rd_p=8e67ecf5-6d33-440e-afdb-8f596dbe82f6&pf_rd_r=7PFPPAQ1EQ6NW9EBDAJ2&psc=1&refRID=7PFPPAQ1EQ6NW9EBDAJ2 Just wish they would do another run of the GWR book. The more recent, expanded version. Jason The GWR book was semi-privately published by Tourret, after D&C did the earlier two versions of it. Crecy has taken over the Ian Allan publishing house which includes OPC. I just wish they would do our book, but the Ozalids are reportedly lost a long time ago. Of the LMS books the one I recommend is the smaller ex D&C LMS Wagons. It has proper modellers drawings by the late Ken Morgan and very clear tables of production, with notes on which batches were originally vacuum braked or not. Although the Illustrated LMS books give much better photos they use diagrams, which are often not so good and being based on diagrams they can be confusing about what is built to what design. But, of course, what is ideal is to use the three together. What is slightly amusing is that LMS wagon has been reprinted - I bought my two (with a number of others sold on to friends) remaindered and only about 12 months after publication. These reprints cost next to nothing compared to the RRP (which was supposed to be used for books) for them originally. Paul Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
watfordtmc Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Paul’s post reminds of what I should have included in mine; a link to his website: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsvan If you then click on page 10 (in the default view option) you can then select M523245 as a view of a hand brake only van, converted to vacuum brake by BR, or M524642 as an example of the fully fitted vans. Regards TMc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 If you click on the photo and then use the "share" icon shaped like "three little balls" and copy the code that comes up, you can link direct to the photo. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsvan/e3c7a3175 Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
watfordtmc Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Quote If you click on the photo and then use the "share" icon shaped like "three little balls" and copy the code that comes up, you can link direct to the photo. J, Ahhh! So that's how.... I learnt something new today. Thank you. TMc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now