mozzer models Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 hour ago, rapidoandy said: Well we know what Jason likes, we know what Bill likes, does anyone know what I like? (If they do please let me know). Andy Well you did like a small loco on the Middleton Railway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2020 19 hours ago, mdvle said: The problem with that (in my opinion) is that the above linked poll shows that there is no consensus on what Toplights need to be made in model form, so the EOI as a form of poll is likely doomed to failure. Instead someone with either the existing expertise or the appropriate reference materials at hand needs to go through the Toplights and consider which can be done with as much shared tooling as possible and come up with a "take it or leave it" selection of prototypes that can perhaps be done economically (likely for a new definition of affordable). Absolutely hypothetical, and more of a general plan for anyone who wants to attempt the task. I did a bit of delving a few years back to try to select the 'best' ones for a manufacturer and in conjunction with somebody who has a lot of GW coach expertise than me we arrived at what we thought would be a sensible compromise for a small r-t-r range. The manufacturer concerned also did some of their own initial research but our common view was that it was a very difficult subject area to serve all periods and hence the widest possible market so it might not be viable for somebody to invest tens of thousands of £s. That was effectively confirmed by Neal's survey which he got underway at about the same time and it showed that even among the avid Western modellers who responded there was very limited common ground when it came to what a Toplight coach meant to them. CJL's idea about DW139 is a far more specialised approach and in my view it would undoubtedly work although the result would be a quite expensive model. But one which had the advantage of going all over (G)WR main line routes attached to everyday express trains. In fact it's one I suggested to another concern several years ago although nothing happened for a variety of reasons. The vehicle still exists but as the link I posted above shows its outward appearance was changed massively in the later years of its life. The 'classic appearance of the vehicle, with several livery possibilities (although the bogies were changed) is show in Chris's photo and in my opinion it would make an attractive commercial proposition for the likes of Rapido. And it was, by quite a margin the last Toplight vehicle to remain in regular use on BR - it even ran behind blue painted diesels while still largely in the external condition shown in Chris's photo although by then it was in blue & grey livery. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Whilst I would not suggest this approach to Rapido who I would only expect scale models from. Would a Toplightish generic coach be something Hattons might approach if the generic 4 and 6 wheelers prove to be the success they may be? If no-one can agree on a respectable prototype then perhaps for the masses the only option is something in the theme of. Back to Rapido.... a Black 5 - lots of them 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidoandy Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 14 hours ago, mozzer models said: Well you did like a small loco on the Middleton Railway I certainly do like little locos. You do not get many smaller standard gauge locos than this. Hunslet 'Courage'. 22hp with a lister engine making it sound like a canal boat. I loved driving it! Not sure its a good idea for a commercial project mind! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozzer models Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 26 minutes ago, rapidoandy said: I certainly do like little locos. You do not get many smaller standard gauge locos than this. Hunslet 'Courage'. 22hp with a lister engine making it sound like a canal boat. I loved driving it! Not sure its a good idea for a commercial project mind! i would buy one or 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said: I did a bit of delving a few years back to try to select the 'best' ones for a manufacturer and in conjunction with somebody who has a lot of GW coach expertise than me we arrived at what we thought would be a sensible compromise for a small r-t-r range. The manufacturer concerned also did some of their own initial research but our common view was that it was a very difficult subject area to serve all periods and hence the widest possible market so it might not be viable for somebody to invest tens of thousands of £s. Agree, appears to be a difficult subject with not a lot of common demand (at the moment). 5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said: That was effectively confirmed by Neal's survey which he got underway at about the same time and it showed that even among the avid Western modellers who responded there was very limited common ground when it came to what a Toplight coach meant to them. Which is why I think a poll needs to present things differently - present what is likely possible to do RTR and then present it as a "are you interested in this" style presentation to see which of the possible coaches people would be interested in, with a "not interested because I want a different toplight even though it will never be done RTR" option. At the moment, with no RTR available or coming, there is no reason for those GWR modellers to compromise on what they are trying to recreate. But it is possible that if the option becomes "this selection of RTR or nothing" that enough of them (and new GWR modellers) will congregate around what is possible with the potential RTR models to make them viable. 5 hours ago, woodenhead said: Whilst I would not suggest this approach to Rapido who I would only expect scale models from. Would a Toplightish generic coach be something Hattons might approach if the generic 4 and 6 wheelers prove to be the success they may be? An interesting question. To me, part of the reason the Hatton's Genesis coaches are both working and commercially possible is because they are inherently generic and not restricted to any one railway / region. If one was to instead go GWR specific (on the assumption such generic toplights wouldn't work for any non-GWR railway - I don't know enough to know if this is true or not) then I would guess you may as well choose a selection of toplights and go accurate and say to the GWR modellers that it is take it or leave it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 4 hours ago, rapidoandy said: I certainly do like little locos. You do not get many smaller standard gauge locos than this. Hunslet 'Courage'. 22hp with a lister engine making it sound like a canal boat. I loved driving it! Not sure its a good idea for a commercial project mind! Certainly intriguing. Has Bill recovered from the challenges of bringing the Stirling Single to market yet and thus looking for a new challenge? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 7 hours ago, rapidoandy said: I certainly do like little locos. You do not get many smaller standard gauge locos than this. Hunslet 'Courage'. 22hp with a lister engine making it sound like a canal boat. I loved driving it! Not sure its a good idea for a commercial project mind! Still more likely though than a rake of Toplights 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Just watched the Dapol TV announcement for the GWR Railcar. No-one does marketing like Rapido do they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozzer models Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, woodenhead said: Just watched the Dapol TV announcement for the GWR Railcar. No-one does marketing like Rapido do they? With Rapido there's no chance you will nod off 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Vader Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Maybe Rapido could actually finish off the gunpowder wagon that they were going to produce. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted October 31, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 31, 2020 A request from me, please could Rapido not make a model of any of the projects I am working on. Nothing worse than being halfway through something and with all the razzmatazz of the circus coming to town there is an announcement stating "We are going to make what Clive is making so everyone has one." Everyone else Me Good luck with your future products Andy. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidoandy Posted October 31, 2020 Author Share Posted October 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said: A request from me, please could Rapido not make a model of any of the projects I am working on. Nothing worse than being halfway through something and with all the razzmatazz of the circus coming to town there is an announcement stating "We are going to make what Clive is making so everyone has one." Everyone else Me Good luck with your future products Andy. Well the question is; what are you working on Clive? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainwright1 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 An S.E.R. Q class 0-4-4 tank would be good, followed by an S.E. & C.R. Q1. Wishful thinking, or not ? Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 38 minutes ago, rapidoandy said: Well the question is; what are you working on Clive? Everything 2 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted October 31, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 31, 2020 25 minutes ago, rapidoandy said: Well the question is; what are you working on Clive? Hi Andy I am one those modellers who has many projects on the go at one time flitting from one to another. Locos, a Stanier class 3 2-6-2T and a pile of NBL 0-4-0 diesel shunters EMUs 302, 305, 307, 308 , 309, 501 and LMS north London set. DMUs Cravens 3 car, Gloucester 2 car, BRCW class 104 2, 3 and 4 car, Derby 114, Trans Pennine, Glasgow Edinburgh 6 car, Gloucester and Swindow cross country, BRCW 118, Derby 116, 115 and 125 and a 6S Hastings unit. Coaches Various Stanier LMS, BR Mk1s and Gresley and Thompson LNER coaches not available RTR. Freight stock, a few 10, 12 and 14 ton tank wagons of different vintages. Many are on the back burner as they don't fit with my present layout. Cutting and shutting coaches seem to be my main interest at the moment. I also have many that have gone on to a permanent hold after the introduction of RTR models, like my scratchbuilding of the Baby Deltics ( I have all ten either scratch or cut and shut but was replacing the cut and shut with all scratchbuilt), more NBL and BTH type 1s. I think a few RTR of what I am building might speed the process. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 If you are to copy Clive @rapidoandy, what you need to introduce is a Mk1 coach chassis and then a series of bits of coach sides in various liveries that can be stitched together - plus some under gubbins for all the stuff to hang under the coach. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 3 hours ago, woodenhead said: Just watched the Dapol TV announcement for the GWR Railcar. No-one does marketing like Rapido do they? Yet some people elsewhere moan and complain about Rapido's marketing, and that they aren't "serious" enough. But perhaps to make up for the Dapol announcement people might enjoy Rapido's latest video showcasing their CPR van/caboose https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86TbHgTg9Fc Perhaps a new thread to create ideas for the inevitable videos that rapidoandy will appear in... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 1, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 1, 2020 (edited) On 31/10/2020 at 12:08, Darth Vader said: Maybe Rapido could actually finish off the gunpowder wagon that they were going to produce. The big question with the GPV is how many people are going to want to pay over £30 for a relatively commonplace freight vehicle. True the £30 four wheel wagon is fast approaching but that still begs the question of how marketable that price range will be for a something fairly ordinary? Edited November 1, 2020 by The Stationmaster 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 On 01/11/2020 at 12:17, The Stationmaster said: The big question with the GPV is how many people are going to want to pay over £30 for a relatively commonplace freight vehicle. True the £30 four wheel wagon is fast approaching but that still begs the question of how marketable that price range will be for a something fairly ordinary? As I understand it the Gunpowder van foundered because it was uneconomic. It's a very small wagon which people will expect to be cheap. However, one can spend the same amount of time developing a much larger vehicle which commands a higher price - that's why these new start-up companies are concentrating on modern wagons and bogie vehicles. (CJL) 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Huw Griffiths Posted November 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) On 01/11/2020 at 12:17, The Stationmaster said: The big question with the GPV is how many people are going to want to pay over £30 for a relatively commonplace freight vehicle. True the £30 four wheel wagon is fast approaching but that still begs the question of how marketable that price range will be for a something fairly ordinary? 22 minutes ago, dibber25 said: As I understand it the Gunpowder van foundered because it was uneconomic. It's a very small wagon which people will expect to be cheap. However, one can spend the same amount of time developing a much larger vehicle which commands a higher price - that's why these new start-up companies are concentrating on modern wagons and bogie vehicles. (CJL) Both posts raise some very interesting points. I could imagine the same amount of research would probably go into a small / short prototype as something several times the size - I also doubt if toolmaking and marketing costs would be much different. There would probably also be an element of exactly how many models they'd be able to sell - in other words, how many sales all the initial costs would need to be covered by. However, I could also imagine a number of potential customers looking looking at models of vastly different sized prototypes - costing about the same - and thinking that a larger model gives them more "bang for their buck" than a much smaller one. I seem to remember comments along these lines when improved models were released of some shunters - with comparisons being drawn against already established (and R&D, tooling etc costs probably already covered) models of large main line locos. Huw. Edited November 2, 2020 by Huw Griffiths Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 The Gunpowder Van was a project driven by Bill and Gareth as they both wanted it(1), something that as mentioned previously matters when Rapido are deciding what to do. Of course in the meantime Gareth left Rapido to join Accurascale, and Rapido paused their UK plans, so the fate of the Gunpowder Van is unknown. I will point out however that despite all the moaning that happens online about prices all of these projects seem to somehow find customers willing to pay, so while I won't entirely dismiss the price issue I think at times it can be made to be a bigger issue than it is. And for those wondering, in Newsletter 14 Jason let it be known he likes the Voyagers(2), though whether he likes them enough to make a model could be another matter. 1 - https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Rapido-News-UK-Vol--16---The-Latest-and-Greatest.html?soid=1101318906379&aid=KyCNDa0Svm4 2 - https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Rapido-News-Vol--14---A-Quickie-For-Warley.html?soid=1101318906379&aid=H0c-qmNJ29M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted November 5, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 5, 2020 On 01/11/2020 at 12:17, The Stationmaster said: The big question with the GPV is how many people are going to want to pay over £30 for a relatively commonplace freight vehicle. True the £30 four wheel wagon is fast approaching but that still begs the question of how marketable that price range will be for a something fairly ordinary? £30 wagon ? That threshold was passed 3 years ago, Drax wagons were £80 a piece, try finding one for less than £160 now. Bachmanns HKAs are over £60 a piece, the NP versions are £80. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 6, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2020 10 hours ago, adb968008 said: £30 wagon ? That threshold was passed 3 years ago, Drax wagons were £80 a piece, try finding one for less than £160 now. Bachmanns HKAs are over £60 a piece, the NP versions are £80. I did say 4 wheel (where I know Bachmann has now passed the £30 mark by a substantial amount as it happens). Bogie wagons have been way ahead of £30 for some time past - as you say. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 How about a 12-wheel Pullman car? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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