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Rock Creek Canyon


MarshLane
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Welcome to Rock Creek Canyon!

Firstly, can I say, even if your not into American railroads, please keep reading! This layout, while very simple from an operating perspective, will primarily be about scenery, and as such I hope it will appeal to all.

 

The Chronicle

Anyone just finding the thread, or choosing to start and read through it, may find the 'Rock Creek Chronicle' worth looking at ... it surmises what's happening up to the point it was published, and what should happen going forward.  It isn't produced often, but may (in the early days of this thread) save you wading through boring pictures of baseboards!

Rock Creek Chronicle - Edition 1

 

 

In the beginning...

I am well on with planning a UK late 1980s/early 1990s layout, but realistically, it’s going to be 12-18 months before the new railway room is available, so I wanted something to practice scenery and run some trains, enter Rock Creek Canyon.  Using a couple of baseboards built for a small O gauge project previously, but never used, the scenic area is 6ft x 18inches, and the route will represent a single track main line running through a deep canyon, alongside a river.  Work has now commenced, so it felt a logical time to start a thread!

 

1186243949_RCCTrackPlan.png.9152d453b2dd6736adf4f663398e1ad8.png

 

Entering the scene from the left, will be the main track and siding (the US term for a loop). This will then come into a single track, shortly before the end if the first board, before swinging away towards the back of the second board, crossing over the Rock River on a girder bridge and running off scene. The aim is that it provides a chance it run some of my American stock, multiple locos (lash-ups as they say in the US) and long freights. To make it work,  the fiddle yard is along the back of the layout and single-ended. Off scene the 180 degree curves are tighter than I would like, or normally consider, but it is only a short-term layout with stock running at slow speeds, so hopefully it will be ok. I am limited with space, as it has to be split into five separate boards (two scenic, two ends and a fiddle yard) and taken down between running sessions.

 

IMG_2604.jpeg.6894cbcf2de9d87cb1b4e61633fb4c91.jpeg

 

Originally, the intention was to remove the current solid base, screw risers to the base frame and create a lightweight open frame baseboard. However, I did such a good job of gluing the cork down two years ago when the boards were built, that there is no way it will come off, so there is no access to the screws securing the top board! Instead, I have raised the trackbed up two inches to provide some relief and variance from the river level.  This has just been completed for both boards, so the next task will be creation of the scenic skeleton.

 

IMG_2612.jpeg.fde638ef4a031c1953760a251bc15d9e.jpeg

 

The aim, as you will see from the plan is to create a ‘hidden’ valley that can only be seen by looking through the bridge to provide some depth, which ‘viewblockers’ will hopefully make the layout seem longer and bigger than it is, also removing the need for a back scene or bridge/tunnel at one end.  It is being built in between work and family life, so progress may be slow, steady and/or sporadic!

 

The brown paper here is purely to aid planning and gives in impression of how the canyon rock sides will look on this section, with a couple of pictures showing the photographic opportunities when completed.

 

IMG_2617.jpeg.f07d64ccaa284ab9b8478a0ea26b00f5.jpeg

 

IMG_2614.jpeg.1f6e4684fcd60c4ffa52bac9b3ce2d50.jpeg

 

If it is of interest, then please do follow along.  The layout will follow UP/BNSF practice in the main but primarily is about trying out different style of scenery, tree making and a little bit of static grass!

 

Rich

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This looks interesting Rich, I did a very little American HO back in the 80's, (that's the 1980's before anyone asks) and even then the Diesels had working lights etc, and I had a Union Pacific I think it was, with a yellow flashing light on the roof. All you had to to was crack the H & M Duett a little for the light to flash with no movement in the Loco, it was so impressive.

I'm looking forward to seeing this develop mate, ENJOY.

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9 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

This looks interesting Rich, I did a very little American HO back in the 80's, (that's the 1980's before anyone asks) and even then the Diesels had working lights etc, and I had a Union Pacific I think it was, with a yellow flashing light on the roof. All you had to to was crack the H & M Duett a little for the light to flash with no movement in the Loco, it was so impressive.

I'm looking forward to seeing this develop mate, ENJOY.

 

Thanks Andy, I must admit, I have a roster (fleet) of about 15 locos now, originally started collecting the 'special' liveries to go in a display cabinet, but this is too nice an opportunity!  Hopefully the running of the first trains will not be too far away....

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I am back at work tomorrow for a few days, so progress will likely stop. However, I managed to find where I had put the second bridge unit this morning, so the full length bridge and piers have now been installed.  The cork base needs removing to lower the height a little, but the overall view of the bridge is exactly what I was hoping for.  Both are Kato structures, quite detailed (although they will need some weathering and rust) but very impressed with how quickly, easily and sturdy the piers clip together and perform.

 

IMG_2629.jpeg.840e49370ab18dcf2eb8b15d0187b2fe.jpeg

 

Which now does show what the photographic opportunity will be once the scenics are in place...

 

IMG_2626.jpeg.1470954b7ab4258127e6404920270fb2.jpeg

 

Also, managed to pick a couple of UP locos up off eBay yesterday to add to the fleet, both of which arrived VERY quickly this morning!

IMG_2624.jpeg.5cb71a60a9fa67ebf078f7141880ed5b.jpeg

 

IMG_2622.jpeg.e6bfa7f362fe7379ef971952c24bae59.jpeg

 

Both are DCC fitted so that is one task less to do!


Rich

 

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Thanks Jonny,


Next task is to get the track down on the scenic boards. I have spent a quiet half hour at work this afternoon (sssh!) planning how the various electronic boards for operating points, track feeds etc, will connect together and where they are located.  So I am moving forward bit-by-bit. The boards are a combination of Digitrax and Signatrak (formerly CML) Loconet items.

 

Rich

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Evening all,

One of the chaps on an American forum has made, what I think its a positive suggestion, adding an extra line the full length of the 'off-scene' loop on the upper level, would give an extra storage road, somewhere to put a set of wagons that are not regular runners for example, but he also suggested creating a link from the back 'loop' road onto the 180 degree return loop to create a continuous run.

 

That isn't as easy as it sounds, as that 180 degree curve climbs (unfortunately) but a connect once it has levelled off and before entering the scenic section would be possible.  I don't like tail-chaser layouts personally, but I can see the advantage of a continuous run for testing or 'running in' new locos.

 

RCC_Track_Plan_v2.png.14ecffabd3df5a1da27f27fd5cc80b5a.png

 

Given that the continuous run would only be used during testing and the storage siding would only be used during running, the track layout looks like the above ... anyone any thoughts or comments - for/against?  it would mean that the continuous run is all on the same level.

 

Rich

 

 

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Hi 

 

I would be tempted to put the additional siding on the other side of the passing loop so you avoid the diamond crossing. A continous run is useful sometimes, for running in as you say or just sitting back a watching the trains go by. 

 

Assuming that model railway exhibitions return, were you intending to exhibit the layout? If so the continious run might come in handy to keep something moving whilst you sort out some stock in the staging yard.

 

Nick 

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Thanks @stivesnick

Thats a valid point. I'd put it on that side just to make the most of the length, but swapping could be useful.  The other thought I have had this evening is to put a point connection in at the left hand edge, and use the entire sidings and the through run - as per the below (v3) track plan.

 

RCC_Track_Plan_v3.png.2102ff840f58026fd900beea009b0b81.png

 

That would get rid of the diamond crossing and a point, but would also give an extra long siding that could be used to allow a long manifest or the like to run, but be stored out of the way, especially as in typical American practice, the loop that is 'on-scene' will be bi-directionally signalled.

 

Rich

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On 12/10/2020 at 21:22, stivesnick said:

Assuming that model railway exhibitions return, were you intending to exhibit the layout? If so the continious run might come in handy to keep something moving whilst you sort out some stock in the staging yard.

 

Hi Nick,

I have realised I'd only partly replied to your comment earlier.  Its not been built with attending any exhibitions in mind, but primarily because I have never exhibited a layout before.  Should it reach a good enough standard and if anyone was interested, I would probably consider it - just not sure there is enough to keep an audience interested.  But I agree, the continuous run could come in handy in that scenario.

 

Rich

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Well day off today, so I managed to get almost the whole morning and majority of the afternoon working on the layout, although little to show for my efforts!

 

I have decided to go with version 3 of the track work, incorporating the combined return loop and stabling/through siding.  The right hand end off-scene board has been extended by eight inches just to give a bit more room to get the pointwork in on the level.  This has also had the added effect that the stand that supports the board could be moved outwards further making it more stable.  

 

I have also got the risers cut for the left end off-scene board and the trackbed cut out for the 200 degree return loop.  Unfortunately at that point I ran out of time, but next week hopefully the risers can be screwed to the board, and the trackbed screwed to the risers and the other end board should be finished off and track laying can then commence.

 

IMG_2664.jpeg.af94ae81db768610210d5e46beae9f66.jpeg

 

In the picture above, the trackbed is flat on the board, but this will stay at the 2" high level, to allow the end roads of the hidden sidings top left corner, which are flat on the baseboard, will curve through the middle of this circle to allow locos to be attached/detached.

 

Elsewhere, an eBay purchase arrived with three very nice, lovely weathered wagons for option on the Manifest (mixed goods) freight.

 

IMG_2654.jpeg.dc84016032c7edff6949fc0df5961686.jpeg

 

IMG_2656.jpeg.ec68a17cd3bcb126a598eb186b81a42e.jpeg

 

IMG_2655.jpeg.06df6df46bf3be74bf982c5c67db9c85.jpeg

 

So things are progressing slowly, but nicely.

 

Rich

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, MarshLane said:

Well day off today, so I managed to get almost the whole morning and majority of the afternoon working on the layout, although little to show for my efforts!

 

I have decided to go with version 3 of the track work, incorporating the combined return loop and stabling/through siding.  The right hand end off-scene board has been extended by eight inches just to give a bit more room to get the pointwork in on the level.  This has also had the added effect that the stand that supports the board could be moved outwards further making it more stable.  

 

I have also got the risers cut for the left end off-scene board and the trackbed cut out for the 200 degree return loop.  Unfortunately at that point I ran out of time, but next week hopefully the risers can be screwed to the board, and the trackbed screwed to the risers and the other end board should be finished off and track laying can then commence.

 

IMG_2664.jpeg.af94ae81db768610210d5e46beae9f66.jpeg

 

In the picture above, the trackbed is flat on the board, but this will stay at the 2" high level, to allow the end roads of the hidden sidings top left corner, which are flat on the baseboard, will curve through the middle of this circle to allow locos to be attached/detached.

 

Elsewhere, an eBay purchase arrived with three very nice, lovely weathered wagons for option on the Manifest (mixed goods) freight.

 

IMG_2654.jpeg.dc84016032c7edff6949fc0df5961686.jpeg

 

IMG_2656.jpeg.ec68a17cd3bcb126a598eb186b81a42e.jpeg

 

IMG_2655.jpeg.06df6df46bf3be74bf982c5c67db9c85.jpeg

 

So things are progressing slowly, but nicely.

 

Rich

 

 

 

 

I thought that was a Toilet seat Rich, :laugh:Now there's an idea for a small Layout.:fie:

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4 hours ago, Andrew P said:

I thought that was a Toilet seat Rich, :laugh:Now there's an idea for a small Layout.:fie:

 

Well that has to be ultimate fold away layout Andy ... 

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Spent some time over lunch considering what point motors to use. I have a couple of Tortoise here, recovered from the last O gauge layout, but despite there only being one point on the scenic section, the off-scene area comprises 22, mainly in the hidden sidings!  I don't really want to spend significant amounts on point motors, but I am not a fan of solenoid type, especially for N gauge points, I think they 'bang' the blades over too hard.

So I have concluded the choice is either Tortoise, Cobalt or the Cobalt SS surface mount ones.  The advantage to the latter is the DCC built in, the disadvantage is again cost.  While I am not planning on operating the points with DCC at the start, the fact that I'd like to have a play around with some computer control, suggests a built-in DCC decoder would not be a bad thing.  Although the other option I have is non-DCC fitted to start with, then acquire some CML (Now Signatrak) DAC20 boards to act as the DCC decoder at a later date. I have a feeling the Tortoise ones may win, but very much undecided at the moment.

 

Does anyone else have any thoughts/opinions?

 

Rich

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It really is amazing how quickly information is posted on rmWeb.  Its only five days since my last post, and this thread is already on Page 5 of the forum listing!!

 

Another, not particularly exciting update I am afraid.  The left hand return board (this is the off-scene board that allows trains to return to the staging sidings having come off the layout, or vice-versa) has been completed.  Not particularly much to look at, but it is a big step forward.

 

IMG_2669.jpeg.4edb6516a99c0aa59f81aab20e757818.jpeg

 

As you can see, the layout exit is the lower of the right hand two.. The upper version will run down the back of the scenic boards (out of sight) and head back into the staging sidings.  This line remains at the upper level for two reasons, one to avoid a steep descent/ascent depending on the direction, and also because one of the staging sidings will be below this line.  There are seven sidings, each being around nine-foot long.  The sidings will curve at this end to finish in the middle of the horseshoe, hence why the board has been cut out.  

 

IMG_2672.jpeg.98f9520ec29b2f05b56768f8cbda5954.jpeg

 

This caused a problem with supporting at one corner, but was resolved by the use of a bolt, four washers and nuts (thanks to my Dad for the idea!) and that end of the upper board, which will only have two lines on it, is now quite sturdy.

 

Attention now moves to the opposite end of the layout and the more complicated one of the two off-scene boards.  While I do have a 28"x28" board built for here, I decided that the grade was too steep and tight for trains, so the task for next week is to rebuild that board as a 45"x35" board, to allow a 14.5" radius for the inner curve that is descending and 16" radius for the outer curve that remains at the higher level throughout.  I did try and reverse them to allow the descending track to have the wider radius but it just didn't work.

 

I decided to get all the woodwork down and sorted first before moving forward, so hopefully by late November, the track work will be going down and trains can be finally run!  

 

Rich

 

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A light-hearted round up of things, where we are and wants to come!

 

Welcome to the ‘Rock Creek Chronicle’.  

As a bit of background, Rock Creek is a small community, well hamlet of one, but the plan is the Chronicle will keep everyone in the hamlet up to date with what’s happening.  The Editor of said journal, Mr Updar Creek, is also the reporter, photographer, typesetter, printer, proof reader, distributor chap, gardener, and not to forget the most important job - making the tea in the office for him and the cat, a small black and white moggy called flash. So named, as every time a mouse is around he’s nowhere to be seen, having gone like a … well you get the idea.  Rumour has it, this Editor isn’t very good at what he does, so I doubt this paper is going to be a regular thing, but you never know, you might possibly get another before the end of the year! 

 

EDIT: Should have said the attached two-page PDF is safe to download at work! Its all model railways!

 

RCC_Chronical_Edition_01.pdf

 

Edited by MarshLane
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On 17/10/2020 at 15:31, MarshLane said:

Spent some time over lunch considering what point motors to use. I have a couple of Tortoise here, recovered from the last O gauge layout, but despite there only being one point on the scenic section, the off-scene area comprises 22, mainly in the hidden sidings!  I don't really want to spend significant amounts on point motors, but I am not a fan of solenoid type, especially for N gauge points, I think they 'bang' the blades over too hard.

So I have concluded the choice is either Tortoise, Cobalt or the Cobalt SS surface mount ones.  The advantage to the latter is the DCC built in, the disadvantage is again cost.  While I am not planning on operating the points with DCC at the start, the fact that I'd like to have a play around with some computer control, suggests a built-in DCC decoder would not be a bad thing.  Although the other option I have is non-DCC fitted to start with, then acquire some CML (Now Signatrak) DAC20 boards to act as the DCC decoder at a later date. I have a feeling the Tortoise ones may win, but very much undecided at the moment.

 

Does anyone else have any thoughts/opinions?

 

Rich

Hi Rich,

 

Looking forward to seeing this develop. I know very little about the american railways, but the freedom to do some interesting scenic work sounds great. 

 

For the point motors, (for cost reasons) on my last layout I went for cheap peco motors. I wouldn't use them on a scenic section. But the loud click did have some advantage that I didn't always need to double check the point motors had actually activated all the time and allowed a semi automatic running of the layout. Totally agree that that noise isn't the most realistic and the motion is way too fast, but never actually damaged any trackwork in my experience. 

 

All the best,

Dave

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7 hours ago, DavidMcKenzie said:

For the point motors, (for cost reasons) on my last layout I went for cheap peco motors. I wouldn't use them on a scenic section. But the loud click did have some advantage that I didn't always need to double check the point motors had actually activated all the time and allowed a semi automatic running of the layout. Totally agree that that noise isn't the most realistic and the motion is way too fast, but never actually damaged any trackwork in my experience. 

 

Thanks for that info Dave. I am debating at the moment. I think Peco may win out in the staging yard (hidden sidings)  if only because they are quick and easy to mount on the adapter plates above the board.  Talking to various people the concerns about the solenoids being too forceful overtime seem to be me panicking a bit.

 

However the four points on the upper level (one in the scenic, one on left return board, and two on the right return board) are all mounted within the track base, and at least two of these are consequently going to be a different story.

 

One option is to use the Tortoise motors I already have (although the depth of the motor casing means that the cork and baseboard will need a hole cut out in order to mount them)  and control them through a CML DAC20 board to act as a decoder, the other is to go for Servos - my original concern was they were liable to damage, but being within the board they should be protected.  

 

I suspect the tortoise will win out, if for no other reason than despite having to cut a hole, it means I can get at them either for adjustment or replacement in the future, but we'll wait and see!

 

Rich 

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Evening all,

Well a good couple of days working on the layout Thursday and Friday.  Things always take longer than you imagine they will.

 

Firstly, the Kato double bridge structure has been secured in place on the boards.

IMG_2689.jpeg.84e6a2a7810ee899058f254daeef0774.jpeg

 

IMG_2697.jpeg.1b3b095aefd468d8bed8357c4444460f.jpeg

 

It needs a slight 'tweak' to take out a kink in the track between the two bridges, but that should not be a major issue to rectify.  The bridge has been secured by making three wooden supports that are a tight fit within the plastic supports.  These have then been screwed from below and mean that the bridge is now quite solid, and at the right height for the track to be laid.  The small holes in the cork will be covered by the river and the surrounding ground when the scenics are done.

 

I have also got two new LED light units fitted to the boards, which are superb.  Each is £23 from Amazon, and gives a broad light range over the whole of each board.  There is a defuser to be fitted which gets rid of the arch style to the lighting.

 

IMG_2693.jpeg.fde3634dd49bdbe91c09f4354187e141.jpeg

These units have an alternating warm LED and cold LED arrangement, meaning that a warm light, daylight or cold light can be displayed.  They are both covered by the top pelmit when at normal viewing height and as the rocky canyon is created, the backscene will not be visible anyway.  The left hand one has been positioned towards the front of the layout, where the railroad is, while the right hand one is more centre aligned.

 

IMG_2696.jpeg.fdec53971b41b6cd08628f32eee27f95.jpeg

 

Finally on Friday, the new wood work for the right hand 'return loop' baseboard was built.  The timber supplied by the new timber merchants I have used is superb and puts many places like Wickes and B&Q to shame. Its straight and well priced, and they only charged me £5 for delivery ... and no charge at all for cutting it all to size!  Very impressed.

 

IMG_2699.jpeg.932f43fe1d5dae71bab182fca28f179d.jpeg

 

This is the outside frame with one timber support in place, placed on top of the 'complete' track layout for this board to check that the timber supports were not colliding with any pointwork.

 

I should stress, that these sidings are intended to hold locos not working on the layout, and likelihood is that not all of them will be laid, certainly initially.  However, it has occurred to me that, this board offers the potential of two layouts in one, with the off-scene loco yard being able to be developed as a small industry switching site or actual loco depot that could be used independent of the main scenic boards in the future.  So that could be a win-win!

 

The framework was finished on Friday, but I forgot to take a picture, so that is one for next time.  To put the track layout into position.  The single track at the top left, leads on to the scenic part of the layout at the bridge end.  The next road across is the return off layout back to the staging sidings.  The next line to the right which curves away across other lines, is the through running line, which is positioned two inches above the staging sidings, and the other roads are entry into the staging yard board on the baseboard level. Hopefully next week, I'll get the track base down on this board and things will make a bit more sense.

 

In other related news, a package of goodies has been dispatched from the US (yes I gather the bank manager is calling on Monday to discuss my model railway budget after I went a little OTT!) that should be here at the end of next week, so some encouragement to get the track down now!  But still, all in good time, but we are getting closer to being able to run some trains!

 

Rich

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Morning all,

Well Modelling Thursday became baseboard Friday this week.  For those not actively following this thread, you may recall from the last update that the new framework had been completed for the right hand end board - this provides a continuous loop on the upper level, a downward grade to the staging sidings, and several engine holding sidings.  Well this was where we left it last week - the photograph I forgot to take!

 

IMG_2715.jpeg.bd7e1982a43c08953e587f401391fde4.jpeg

 

I had taken the opportunity to purchase the SCARM software and design and printout a 1:1 drawing of how the track would fit.  The only major advantage I can see to using Peco, over hand-built track, is that the design is simpler!  There is a lot more flexibility with hand built track of course, but the key with this layout was time, a) to get trains running and enjoy it, and b) to progress with the signalling.  The SCARM print out can been seen under the frame in the last picture of the previous post.

 

IMG_2716.jpeg.11a00977647d574767e0b9ccc47a07d2.jpeg

 

So yesterday, it was stuck to the top board, and out came the jigsaw.  The original plan was to create some form of pivoted arm to give a smooth continuous curve to the cuts, but a lack of mounting points on the jigsaw brought and end to that idea.  Note to self, next time I buy a jigsaw it needs to have mounting points!!  So I went with a freehand approach, keeping as best as I could to a fixed distance from the curved lines.  To be honest, it worked out better than I thought it would. (Excuse the bits of cardboard under the steel stands ... purely there to protect the lounge carpet!!)

 

IMG_2717.jpeg.3c768f43bc22de5a98444be8448bdf79.jpeg

 

With the main flat section of the baseboard cut out and screwed to the framework, the next stage, which was where I got to yesterday, was to start positioning and fixing the risers for the upper section.  This will be completed next week, and then the following session (hopefully I can get two days back to back) will allow the upper track base to be fitted along the back of the board, at which point the next session will be the start of tracklaying!! Yay!

 

IMG_2721.jpeg.b2a0464fa93aaf6bdb86ebe207bfa63d.jpeg

 

In other news, my goodies box was moved by Fedex from Florida to the UK, via Memphis and London Stansted Airport, I was amazed that it left Florida last Friday lunchtime, and arrived with me on Tuesday lunchtime. Four days, including passing through Customs, was truly remarkable.  A couple of items were requisition by 'the local authorities' on the grounds of being Christmas presents!!  But a couple of the auto-rack wagons are pictured below, these will add to the length of the manifest working.

 

IMG_2705.jpeg.c78f7b6660a9feab2d50abac2a31ef57.jpeg

 

IMG_2706.jpeg.3b4bfd030415ac1ef1098bc0b29a8b7d.jpeg

 

IMG_2709.jpeg.5fcfffe52787e503e09d3dcf30b9e126.jpeg

 

I also found a model shop that was shutting down, with 50% off the cost of decoders, so I splashed out a bit more than I intended to do, and acquired enough to cover the current non-DCC fitted fleet.  I am staying with non-sound decoders for this layout. Partly to keep the cost down, but also because the size of N gauge locos mean that some milling or cutting of chassis blocks is required, which I really do not fancy doing!

 

IMG_2703.jpeg.ff2a1858e0acda5344fd94c84572b07d.jpeg

 

Thats it for now, hopefully with track laying now on the horizon, the posts will start getting a bit more interesting from next time!

 

Rich

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Well this weeks update was a little delayed ... a glimpse of what is to come in the weeks/months ahead to start with, well on one board anyway ....

 

IMG_2755.jpeg.85a0fe1755a6f151112524bb0d6795fe.jpeg

 

Work has continued this week on the right hand end base board, with the risers now all in for the upper level return loop, the upper level track base has been screwed in place and is rock solid. I am very pleased with how that has worked.

 

IMG_2764.jpeg.50daabd76c8d5caa9fcbb60ec7f406e1.jpeg

 

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The downward grade from the upper level to the staging sidings has been loosely put in place, next task will be to sort the risers for this.

 

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Finally, an overview of the board itself. The middle area within the curve will be used for loco stabling between trains.

 

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Rich

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Well just a quick update, I normally keep my Nectar points for retrieval in December on the Christmas shopping, but as this year is being all done different (wonder why!) and I won't be going anywhere near Sainsbury's ... I had a quick flash of inspiration when I saw something online that suggested Nectar points could be used to pay for eBay purchases!

 

Wow! Ok, now your talking ... two more wagons for Rock Creek acquired ... and all it cost me was about £1.25 in the different between my Nectar points and the checkout total!   Way to go :P  They turned up courtesy of our friendly postman this morning....

 

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Not sure who the chap on eBay is that's weathering and selling these at very reasonable prices, in my opinion, but he's very good at what he does!

 

Rich

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