RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 11, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 11, 2020 As Fran clearly mentioned CDA right at the end of the video that could well be what it is -a CDA 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Maybe Cavalex & Accurascale are working together (factory wise) rather than duplicating effort and it’s Cavalex’s EP in the cabinet?? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted October 11, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 11, 2020 I'm really hoping that Accurascale do another run of OO scale Castle Cement PCA's as I missed out on the last run for various reasons. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 16 hours ago, adb968008 said: yes, but both Cavalex and Accurascale come with high quality pedigree. They do, but regardless, we don't really want two different versions do we? There's loads more wagons (although I must admit I have far too many already) and locos that we might like instead, class 88 anyone 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted October 11, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 11, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Dixie Dean said: They do, but regardless, we don't really want two different versions do we? There's loads more wagons (although I must admit I have far too many already) and locos that we might like instead, class 88 anyone Three (inc Hornby). A HAA is a bit of a must have model for a near 40 year era, and is only seen in rakes. So potential Demand is quite large. In my mind Accurascale has best potential, as they have the dealer network and are happy to hold some stock beyond pre-orders. I would not be surprised if next year Hornby produce a flood of them, If it turns into a tug of war, ive already chosen my side. Perversely, the chances of a TPE 350 and a TPE 802 have probably just increased too. Cavalex.. well. Edited October 11, 2020 by adb968008 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railfreight1998 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Cavalex does have KMS railtec and Trains4U behind them, and they have announced a huge range of liveries and numbers right from the start. If Hornby announce some next year I can't see them being any cheaper than the cavalex or possible accurascale models, so they will be for the Hornby loyalists probably. Tbh I am hoping they are working together in some way on this project, but there were many thousands of examples in existence, so there are worse models to duplicate. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 A fine bit of marketeering by the Dublin boys. That's definitely something that was originally knocked up in the shed of the Darlington Development Unit. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richscylla Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 1 hour ago, adb968008 said: Three (inc Hornby). A HAA is a bit of a must have model for a near 40 year era, and is only seen in rakes. So potential Demand is quite large. In my mind Accurascale has best potential, as they have the dealer network and are happy to hold some stock beyond pre-orders. I would not be surprised if next year Hornby produce a flood of them, If it turns into a tug of war, ive already chosen my side. Perversely, the chances of a TPE 350 and a TPE 802 have probably just increased too. Cavalex.. well. Certainly a must have for many modellers and I'm very excited about having an HAA that passes muster. I have to disagree about the model with most potential though. Accurascale and Cavalex both product exceptional wagons, they have proved that already so I think we need to look at what has been announced. Cavalex have a model in the tooling stage, which looks stunning. They have retailers who have already said they'll have more than the pre-ordered amount. Accurascale do have a wide retailer network, but many of their models are only available to pre-order/order from them directly so I don't see your point there either. I think it's a little disrespectful to Cavalex to write them off when everything they've produced has been stunning. Also, Accurascale haven't announced anything. They have simply made a video with a a 3D print (by the looks of things) in the background and a cryptic line that could mean anything. I'm sure Hornby will respond to what Cavalex (and potentially Accurascale) do, but that won't really matter. If people want a HAA wagon that is right they'll go for the Cavalex one, if they want a cheap one they'll go with one of the Hornby versions. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DRS Crewe On A Mission Posted October 11, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 11, 2020 7 hours ago, mdvle said: Well, the original topic appears to have disappeared off of RMweb but one can still find links to it - see the posted link to the missing topic that shows the topic was titled "accurascale-and-realtrack-team-up-to-release-pca-cement-wagon-in-4mm-and-2mm" in this 2 message link: 6 hours ago, Railfreight1998 said: Thank you for the replies and the information. I had forgotten that their was an N Gauge PCA. It's nice to see the same models been produced in N and OO, to satisfy the wider modelling and collectable market. Kind Regards, Danny. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
25901 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 All we need now is Cavalex to announce a range of 00 class 37s. Accurascale vs Cavalex. Hattons vs Bachmann. Rails vs Hornby. Any more entering the ring lol 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BR Blue Posted October 11, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 11, 2020 1 hour ago, richscylla said: Certainly a must have for many modellers and I'm very excited about having an HAA that passes muster. I have to disagree about the model with most potential though. Accurascale and Cavalex both product exceptional wagons, they have proved that already so I think we need to look at what has been announced. Cavalex have a model in the tooling stage, which looks stunning. They have retailers who have already said they'll have more than the pre-ordered amount. Accurascale do have a wide retailer network, but many of their models are only available to pre-order/order from them directly so I don't see your point there either. I think it's a little disrespectful to Cavalex to write them off when everything they've produced has been stunning. Also, Accurascale haven't announced anything. They have simply made a video with a a 3D print (by the looks of things) in the background and a cryptic line that could mean anything. I'm sure Hornby will respond to what Cavalex (and potentially Accurascale) do, but that won't really matter. If people want a HAA wagon that is right they'll go for the Cavalex one, if they want a cheap one they'll go with one of the Hornby versions. The only Accurascale model that is only available from Accurascale is one of the versions of the 37 as far as I know so it is not true to say that many of their models are only available directly. They are all available from their retailers. However it is true to say they have not officially announced a HAA yet. We dont know exactly at what stage either of the 2 potential models are at. I believe Cavalex were aiming for Q3 2021 but did mention tooling. If something was in tooling now I would expect it sooner than that given its a wagon and not something more complex so that does not seem to add up. And yes. I think Hornby will respond but their high spec model is almost certainly inferior to the potential new entries so they are going to have to cut the price. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 It's certainly interesting although the only one I'd be potentially interested in is DB CDA. As with the Cavalex ones I wouldn't be rushing to order them though. 4 hours ago, adb968008 said: Perversely, the chances of a TPE 350 and a TPE 802 have probably just increased too. How do you mean? I know the TPE 802 was sort of announced in the 2020 Hornby catalogue but given you also mention the 350 I presume it's something to do with TPE you're on about? I'd love a TPE 802, maybe not a 350 given they are being replaced and wrong side of the country too for me really. 5 hours ago, Dixie Dean said: They do, but regardless, we don't really want two different versions do we? There's loads more wagons (although I must admit I have far too many already) and locos that we might like instead, class 88 anyone Maybe not but I'd say it depends where they are at in the development (IF they are actually developing it) as to whether they cut their losses or start a fight. And I'd be far more interested in an 88, or some other modern wagons than MGR/CDA wagons, so I do agree with you that there would be better things for them to do. 2 hours ago, richscylla said: I think it's a little disrespectful to Cavalex to write them off when everything they've produced has been stunning. I think the issue will be, if there is actually a competition, will be the pricing. If people are wanting 20, 30, 40 of these then even a couple of quid cheaper makes a decent saving for what may be very little/no detriment elsewhere. I'd hazard a guess that AS will be cheaper (based on experience of what they charge) and then would do a bulk pack making cheaper still, and I hope nobody thinks I am being off hand here as the evidence suggests it. And I aren't suggesting the Cavalex ones are dear at £30, they are more than I'd like to spend on a wagon that size but if I wanted them I'd pay it, and they look a bargain vs the £24 or whatever Hornby RRP theirs at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted October 12, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, TomScrut said: I How do you mean? I know the TPE 802 was sort of announced in the 2020 Hornby catalogue but given you also mention the 350 I presume it's something to do with TPE you're on about? I'd love a TPE 802, maybe not a 350 given they are being replaced and wrong side of the country too for me really. I was thinking more from the competitive responses by the others. Accurascale have taken a mostly empty niche in the market, which is partly why they are going great guns, but they are nibbling on the edges of others. Recent moves will awaken sleeping giants, and in the short term the fastest & cheapest responses I see is reliveries on the class 350 from Bachmann and 802 from Hornby, which both attacks and rides on the back of what Accurascales trying to do. I’m pretty certain a competitive reaction will occur, even if its just down to lack of imagination and do think the others are on the back foot but, equally I think they may not bother to jump in with both feet either. As for Cavalex, best of luck to them. Nothing wrong with their wagons, But I favour the Accurascale HAA if this becomes a dog fight. Edited October 12, 2020 by adb968008 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post Accurascale Fran Posted October 12, 2020 RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) Good morning everyone, Well, it seems our teaser in the video has caused something of a stir and some interesting reactions to say the least! As many of you who follow us will know, we took the decision a while back to only announce a new rolling stock project when tooling was complete and we have a sample to show for it. This can bee seen with our recent HYA and IIA wagons, and previous announcements like the PFA, PCA etc. To get to that stage, a large amount of work and time has gone into the project already. This has been adopted to cut down on waiting times for modellers from announcement to delivery. Of course, this runs a risk of someone else announcing the same model in the meantime. However, it does not necessarily mean that the other company is ahead just because they announced it first. It's a risk we take at the end of the day. We will not formally announce any new project without a sample and we are sticking to that mantra. However, we can confirm that a lot of work has been put into such a project and steel has been cut a number of weeks ago, so we are well past the point of no return. As a professional courtesy, we did inform the two retailers commissioning the other model as they are two of our stockists as we felt it was only fair to do so. Once you proceed into tooling the big money spending has begun and it is beyond the point of no return as they say. We have had numerous weekly requests by email, shows FB and on here to do such wagons so we were delighted to take up the challenge. On the wider picture of Accurascale, it has been interesting to see how some people have perceived us in the fallout from this video. Over the last five years across Accurascale (going less than 3 years) and our sister brand IRM have delivered 13 RTR rolling stock items to market, not to mention accessories and commission projects for other companies. We have four locomotives across two brands tooled (well, 3.95 as the 37 is nearly finished tooling) and more models in the pipeline. So, we're taking the British market very seriously indeed. We do not collaborate with other manufacturers on other OO gauge projects, so all work is our own. Needless to say, we have taken the plunge and gone two footed into the deep end of the British OO market. We are now a team of seven members with a British registered company with wages to pay and livelihoods to fulfil. As can be seen recently we have hired some of the best in the business to grow us further and bring you the very best in OO and O that's possible, from staff who have a serious experience for developing excellent models and proven delivery. As well as Paul coming from Hornby as a project manager, and Graham Hubbard, the former Bachmann MD steering us with his industry advice, we've had Gareth Bayer (founding member of DEMU, former Rail Express Modeller editor and of course, formerly of Rapido) with us over a year now. We've hired the best to be the best and the proof is in the pudding of the models that we have delivered to date and further models in the pipeline. Add to that the staff members we already have on the business side (some serious track records and self financers) it's plain to see what our ambitions for Accurascale are. We are also happy with our model output to date and are confident that it stands up against any model anywhere. As you can see with the 37, we go to extreme lengths on variants and detail others have not done to date. The same project manager is over the HAAs, has written published articles on the real things and has a wealth of research conducted on them, so you can imagine how good they will be. We now have a retail network of over 70 outlets and growing, as well our direct sales. While we understand that the world has changed (particularly recently!) regarding buying online, we are fully aware that many railway modellers are not online and we certainly feel that models (particularly of ubiquitous prototypes) should be available to as many people as possible and that we can support as many retailers across the country as possible with new models to sell to their customers to keep their cash registers ringing. Coupled to our usual pricing and our penchant for rakes of lovely wagons and spread of variants (we're modellers ourselves at the end of the day!) you can guess what the formal announcement of these wagons will be like. Apologies for the party political broadcast above, but hopefully it gives those who are unfamiliar to Accurascale an idea what we are about. Cheers! Fran Edited October 12, 2020 by Accurascale Fran fat fingers! 39 1 6 2 18 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gridwatcher Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 I'll take 72...... 36 loaded and 36 empties going the other way please Fran 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Griffin Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 18 hours ago, adb968008 said: A HAA is a bit of a must have model for a near 40 year era, and is only seen in rakes. Since when ? HAA’s were seen as singles in speedlink trains and as cripples going around the network. A quick scan of books and YouTube would show that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Dan Griffin said: Since when ? HAA’s were seen as singles in speedlink trains and as cripples going around the network. A quick scan of books and YouTube would show that. I think the point is that *most* people wanting these will be wanting several of them to go in MGR trains, they were used for a long time and therefore the market for them will be reasonably big. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mevaman1 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 My opinion. Oh no not again! Two excellent manufacturers going head to head. There is only a certain market size for a high fidelity HAA with variants. As Hornby models have been around for very many years, this will have a limiting effect on sales. Both Cavalex and Accurascale will lose out if they go head to head. For the best commercial reasons, one should step back and focus on something else. That’s my two penneth worth! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 12, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, mevaman1 said: My opinion. Oh no not again! Two excellent manufacturers going head to head. There is only a certain market size for a high fidelity HAA with variants. As Hornby models have been around for very many years, this will have a limiting effect on sales. Both Cavalex and Accurascale will lose out if they go head to head. For the best commercial reasons, one should step back and focus on something else. That’s my two penneth worth! But how does anybody decide who should step back? As Fran has siad a company passes a point of no return, literally, once it has invested in tooling because that is when the big money starts to be spent. So who in this case will be the one to write off tens of thousands of £s with nothing to show for it? On the other hand they could go forward and spend, proportionally, not many more £s to actually produce models which will bring in a financial return which should help to cover, if not recover, the tens of thousands which had been spent anyway. Yes the share of the cake - assuming the size of said cake is constant - would then be split between two concerns (three if you count Hornby) rather than one bringing a new hi-fi model to market. But how do you stop duplication happening? If not actually wholly illegal it is certainly legally questionable for competing manufacturers to agree plans with each other which involve them 'sharing' projects between them. So any attempt at all would have to bear the law in mind for a start. And just look how upset some get if somebody else announces what they consider to be 'their' model. Do we perhaps appoint a new sort of Model Railway Clearing House which 'registers' manufacturers/commissioners interests - and would that be legal? The only real alternative is to do what is constantly criticised by many on RMweb and announce your intention to produce a whatever and then be held up to ridicule, or heavily criticised, for not then brining it to market for X number of years. Just look at the moans in that vein in some RMweb threads but it is really the only logical alternative and I suppose it does give us, the end customers, an opportunity to save up with need for no more than a jar on the mantelpiece for £1 coins (there you are, even more ridicule). Edited October 12, 2020 by The Stationmaster Correct typos 3 11 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted October 12, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2020 Perhaps some acceptable collusion would be to ensure no duplicated running numbers? There are so many to choose from it would be unlikely but that would hopefully benefit both manufacturers? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 37 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: Do we perhaps appoint a new sort of Model Railway Clearing House which 'registers' manufacturers/commissioners interests - and would that be legal? The only real alternative is to do what is constantly criticised by many on RMweb and announce your intention to produce a whatever and then be held up to ridicule, or heavily criticised, for not then brining it to market fo X number of years. just look at the moans in that vein on some RMweb threads but it is really the only logical alternative and I suppose it does give us, the end customers, an opportunity to save up with need for no more than a jar on the mantelpiece for £1 coins (there you are, even more ridicule). We could introduce a democratic system where at the start of the year, a wish list, digs up the top 20 most items for each category (locos, wagons, coaches). Manufacturers then state which items they will be interested in doing from that list (sorry, other items not allowed) and then have a period to define their spec and projected price. People then vote between competing manufacturers to choose who will produce what. Note: a manufacturer needs to consider the resources they have and it will be against the rules to bid on everything. They will be limited to 5 items in each category except the market leaders whom will have ten. The winners have 18 months to produce the model, after which someone else may be allowed to take up the challenge. (all the above is a joke of course). 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 2 hours ago, gridwatcher said: I'll take 72...... 36 loaded and 36 empties going the other way please Fran But what if Accurascale have operating doors and a range of Daleks - then you'd only need a big return loop and 36 HAAs 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 12, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, JSpencer said: We could introduce a democratic system where at the start of the year, a wish list, digs up the top 20 most items for each category (locos, wagons, coaches). Manufacturers then state which items they will be interested in doing from that list (sorry, other items not allowed) and then have a period to define their spec and projected price. People then vote between competing manufacturers to choose who will produce what. Note: a manufacturer needs to consider the resources they have and it will be against the rules to bid on everything. They will be limited to 5 items in each category except the market leaders whom will have ten. The winners have 18 months to produce the model, after which someone else may be allowed to take up the challenge. (all the above is a joke of course). Fortunately Ferrari aren't involved on model railways. Of course we could appoint a single person to make the decisions and act as a clearing house and as I suggested it then it should obviously be me. (Sorry Fran this was meant to be a serious thread but - small(?) hint - it's years since I tasted any of that very nice genuine Dublin Guinness ) 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted October 12, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12, 2020 It’s a difficult one . I don’t think you can share information as it’s technically illegal . It maybe that with something like an HAA there is actually enough of a market for two high spec models . As to not announcing something until it’s in production , well that’s not really happening is it . But it’s not Accurascale or Cavalex that have brought the system into disrepute , let’s face it it’s Bachmann with 6 year gestation periods ( class 90 , 94XX etc) still don’t know if they are producing a new Turbostar or not . The guys here at least announce something and are working on it . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, Legend said: It’s a difficult one It definitely is. But when all's said and done there is too much monopolisation on certain classes etc. in this market as it is IMO, where there is a long established model which is good enough for people to buy yet actually everyone thinks it should be better than it is yet tooling anew against it would probably be very difficult. Hornby's HST for example, I don't think anyone will say it's anywhere near perfect but I think it would be a risky decision tooling a new HST up to compete with it. Unfortunately that means we are left with a shape that's not quite right (IMO) and obsolete lighting functionality. Hornby probably won't upgrade the tooling or lighting if people are buying it, but it's good enough for people to buy as opposed to not having one. I know that the market here in the UK isn't big enough for multiple offerings of every class but having competition does tend to favour the customer. Notice how a load of money was slashed off the Bachmann 66 when the Hattons one came along? Wouldn't surprise me if the same happened with their 37 soon in light of "somebody else's" coming on the scene. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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