Advice sought on a Unimat Metal Line lathe I have

[hayfield]

I have wanted a lathe for years, I did a bit of metal work at school but not engineering I have just bought a Unimat Metal Line lathe with a few accessories and need pointing in the right direction please, I will not be doing anything too pressing, initially I have a few older Romford wheels that need drilling out, but turning up the odd item for s/h kit built locos is what I hope to do and a bit of milling.  More than anything have a bit of fun, perhaps making the odd track gauge

 

Basically am I missing anything, where do I buy metal, a good tutorial etc 

 

 

It seems there are plenty of additional bits, 1m main bed, extra 50cm slide and cross slide

 

 

A close up of the main bits

 

 

Overall picture of the tools, seem to have quite a few brass collets

 

 

I think these are milling bits

 

 

A couple of cutting discs

 

 

 

I think this is the only turning tool

 

I see Unimat do a 4 tool milling set and a 5 piece turning set

 

I have watched a couple of videos on the computer, I now need to follow the demonstrations

 

1   Where can I get some brass bars to practice on

2   What additional tools and where to buy them

 

With a birthday coming up ideal time to suggest useful present ideas

 

I have fallen into the trap of all the gear and no idea !!!

[Mike 84C]

Hello John,

    Albion Alloys are good for bar and sheet stock in brass/ aluminium.

Useful books; The Compact Lathe by Stan Bray. pub; Special Interest Model Books. ISBN 978 185486 227 3.

Unimat III Lathe Accessories  by Bob Loader. W.shop practise Series No32 pub; Nexus Special Interests. ISBN  1 85486 213 8.

The Book of the Unimat  by D.J.Laidlaw- Dickson pub; MAP technical publication . ISBN 0 85242 591 0 

  Looks like you have the full set of kit there! with quite a new machine, mine is much older and I have fewer accesories.

  All three books have been useful in parts and there is overlap in what is covered but there are hints and tips in all three. Two of mine I bought s/h the Book of the Unimat cost £3!

   I cannot give you guidance as I am just a novice with such a small machine and my turning is limited to 2ft gauge wheels!. I have had fun with mine and you will with yours.

           Mick

[hayfield]

Mick

 

Thank you very much, and a great start

[Tony Cane]

I would endorse the recommended books and suggest Chronos as a good source for materials.

 

https://www.chronos.ltd.uk/

 

You will need a grind stone to keep the tools sharp and various thicknesses  of shim metal strip to pack the tool to the correct height.

[Happy Hippo]

If you have a non ferrous metal supplier close by then a trip down and acquiring some 12 foot lengths od small diameter brass bar is a good start.  Yes initially the outlay will seem outrageous, but I found that I could buy a 12 foot length of 1/4" dia brass bar for about the same price as model engineer suppliers would sell a 2 foot length for!

 

You should be be prepared to take a hacksaw with you, just in case as some places are not keen on cutting stuff:  Others are quite happy, so you take your chance.

 

My experience has been that going on a regular basis for bits of metal, eventually makes friends and you'll find they are usually quite happy to allow you to go through the offcuts bin, and then you'll probably be picking up the metal for the scrap price.  Regulars can also find it easier to get stuff cut!

[JimFin]

M-Machine Metals in Darlington are very good for materials, the other part of their business is reproduction panels for classic mini's. Helpful catalogue online. http://preview.m-machine.co.uk/CATALOGUES/metals catalogue.pdf

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Tony Cane said:

I would endorse the recommended books and suggest Chronos as a good source for materials.

 

https://www.chronos.ltd.uk/

 

You will need a grind stone to keep the tools sharp and various thicknesses  of shim metal strip to pack the tool to the correct height.

 

 

Thanks for the suggestions

 

I do have the Unimat tool grinder and grinding wheel ( ref 162 060), are these the same ?

[hayfield]

59 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

If you have a non ferrous metal supplier close by then a trip down and acquiring some 12 foot lengths od small diameter brass bar is a good start.  Yes initially the outlay will seem outrageous, but I found that I could buy a 12 foot length of 1/4" dia brass bar for about the same price as model engineer suppliers would sell a 2 foot length for!

 

You should be be prepared to take a hacksaw with you, just in case as some places are not keen on cutting stuff:  Others are quite happy, so you take your chance.

 

My experience has been that going on a regular basis for bits of metal, eventually makes friends and you'll find they are usually quite happy to allow you to go through the offcuts bin, and then you'll probably be picking up the metal for the scrap price.  Regulars can also find it easier to get stuff cut!

 

48 minutes ago, JimFin said:

M-Machine Metals in Darlington are very good for materials, the other part of their business is reproduction panels for classic mini's. Helpful catalogue online. http://preview.m-machine.co.uk/CATALOGUES/metals catalogue.pdf

  Thank you both for the suggestions

[Tony Cane]

29 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

 

Thanks for the suggestions

 

I do have the Unimat tool grinder and grinding wheel ( ref 162 060), are these the same ?

If these mount on the lathe then it is not a good idea to grind the tools on the lathe as the grit will get on the slides and cause wear.

At the the very least you need a small hand grindstone to restore the cutting edge. Mine is a little triangular stick about 6 inches long.

[hayfield]

Is it worth ordering some aluminum rods to practice on ? as in one of the online tutorials the person demonstrating was using some

[micknich2003]

Back in the summer  of 1969, I decided I needed a lathe and after saving, I bought one, not a Unimat, but for the sake of this discussion near identical. Said lathe duly arrived and what was to be done? I had read in both the model railway press and the Model Engineer magazine. Whatever, and knowing little more than how to plug it in I decided to "Have a Go". Having nothing to hand I decided to experiment with sawn off 6in nails, and so my crude experiments continued. At the time I had no one to guide me, so I bought a book "Using the small lathe" by L C Mason and from it I learned a lot. This tome is still in print and I recommend it, though much of it is behond small scael model railway work.

 Do not be frightened, but by all means respect your lathe and be careful, a Unimat can do as much damage to your fingers as a full size industrial machine.

[hayfield]

Mick

 

Thanks for the advice, last night I watched a few video's and will continue to do so

 

I have ordered The Compact Lathe by Stan Bray from Amazon last night, and will order a few small sections of brass and aluminum from Albion alloys in the next few days

 

Today and tomorrow is a big work room reorganization, new shelves etc making space for the lathe

 

One thing I need to know should I buy some new HSS cutting tools and a set of HSS milling tools ?  

 

Also if I buy these cutting tools how do I know which is which? The cutting tool I have is angled to the top right corner

 

One video showed not only a wooden stand (I have one) but it was in a tray style unit with a high back so that it kept the swarf contained, plus the back coupled up as somewhere to hold tools like Alan keys, screw drivers etc.  I like this idea

[Tony Cane]

This diagram shows the basic shapes of tools and their use.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=lathe+tool+types&client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=ALeKk0184PkxffVbgJk91SIUjFCvHlb95w:1602405372941&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=a0-3dPPrGp40TM%2CrfkqS9zGWc8DuM%2C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRLQ9j0TaabWbHyKH9APRYFWy1vOw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjy7aiYkazsAhVzlFwKHaoKA-gQ9QF6BAgIEE4&biw=1536&bih=724#imgrc=KczMnGaJ4KVifM

[hayfield]

51 minutes ago, Tony Cane said:

This diagram shows the basic shapes of tools and their use.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=lathe+tool+types&client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=ALeKk0184PkxffVbgJk91SIUjFCvHlb95w:1602405372941&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=a0-3dPPrGp40TM%2CrfkqS9zGWc8DuM%2C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRLQ9j0TaabWbHyKH9APRYFWy1vOw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjy7aiYkazsAhVzlFwKHaoKA-gQ9QF6BAgIEE4&biw=1536&bih=724#imgrc=KczMnGaJ4KVifM

Tony 

 

Thank you

 

Sorry about the photos buy they will not upload the right way round, as can be seen face on the tip faces the top right

 

 

I assume this cutting tool cuts from right to left, and from out to in

 

Thanks for the guide I have printed it off

Edited October 11, 2020 by hayfield

[Ian Major]

John,

 

You have been given some excellent pointers and advice above. I will add a couple of things.

 

1) When you need to replace/obtain drill bits do so via specialist tool suppliers eg Drill Service (Horely) Ltd . A guy who who knows a lot more about tools and modelling put it to me "don't get your bits from the usual model railway exhibitions".  I didn't heed this advice and ended up with badly ground bits that cut over size and wandered. From the specialists you can get bits with very small cutting diameter with a wider shank that are more securely held in the collets.  

 

2) Get yourself a centre (slocumb) drill. When, for example, I do end drilling,  I use one to accurately start the hole. One day you will be doing turning between centres. For this the centre drill produces the correct profile hole in the end of the piece to take the centre. The following are 3mm examples.

 

 

3) If you haven't already got one, buy yourself a micrometer to measure your turned work - or anything else for that matter.  My micrometer is one the the most used tools on my bench.

 

I am sure you will enjoy using the lathe once you have had a few sessions with it.

 

Ian.

  

Edited October 11, 2020 by Ian Major

[hayfield]

Ian

 

Thank you

 

I have seen these end drills on the video's, thanks for the reminder

 

I found out about using quality tools with files for track building, Vallorbe files are only a little dearer but so much better

[hayfield]

I am struggling to find a UK distributor for Unimat parts, or am I just useless at searching

[John Harris]

Both my grandfather and father were model engineers and had extensive home workshops, lathes, milling machine, pillar drill, so I have been turning since I was old (or rather tall) enough to see what I was doing.

 

I have a Unimat 3 myself, 

 

The main issue with the Unimat 1 (it was originally sold for under £100, but was much more 'plasticky' than yours) is that the headstock (left arrow) and tailstock (middle arrow) are bolted to the bed, but designed to be removed for other configurations, on the Unimat 3 the headstock and bed are permanently fixed together.

 

It's essential to get these lined up, and parallel to the bed, otherwise nothing will be accurately turned.  It's also essential to use the plates, right hand arrow, which maintain the position of the head / tail stocks.  It's not an insurmountable problem, but care needs to be taken each time the lathe is assembled.

 

jch

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by John Harris

[micknich2003]

GLR Kennions Ltd | Model Engineering Supplies 

Engineering Tools | Lathe | Milling Machine | Model Engineering | arceurotrade.co.uk

 

 See the above two sites for materials and lathe tools etc.

[John Harris]

6 minutes ago, hayfield said:

I am struggling to find a UK distributor for Unimat parts, or am I just useless at searching

 

I don't think that Emco export to the UK, the last prices I saw were above the cost of a "proper" lathe from the Far East.  The last set of drive belts I bought for mine I had to order from Germany, though that was the only Unimat accessory that shop sold.

 

I suggest googling Germany stores?

 

jch

 

 

[John Harris]

2 minutes ago, micknich2003 said:

GLR Kennions Ltd | Model Engineering Supplies 

Engineering Tools | Lathe | Milling Machine | Model Engineering | arceurotrade.co.uk

 

 See the above two sites for materials and lathe tools etc.

 

GLR & Kennions were once separate companies, I remember visiting Kennions in the 60s and 70s, they changed the prices daily as the price of copper moved on the metal's market.

 

jch

[cctransuk]

34 minutes ago, hayfield said:

I am struggling to find a UK distributor for Unimat parts, or am I just useless at searching

 

Any good?

 

https://www.emcomachinetools.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=60

 

John Isherwood.

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Any good?

 

https://www.emcomachinetools.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=60

 

John Isherwood.

 John and the rest of you, thank you very much for the leads and advice

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

Tony 

 

Thank you

 

Sorry about the photos buy they will not upload the right way round, as can be seen face on the tip faces the top right

 

 

I assume this cutting tool cuts from right to left, and from out to in

 

Thanks for the guide I have printed it off

 

Can anyone confirm my assumptions please

 

 

I assume this cuts from right to left and from outside to the center

 

Thanks

 

 

[Ian Major]

John,

 

Getting parts, as opposed to tools, for Unimat lathes can be challenging. The first thing that you will almost certainly need will be replacement drive belts. Below is a quote from a David (LO) Smith entry on the Gauge 0 Guild Forum on the subject. (David is a member of the G0G Techical Comittee and appears in various guises on several modelling forums). 

 

"Unimat belts are totally ridiculous in my view; they are i) cheekily expensive, ii) far too small/tight and, iii) overly large in cross-section.

... but the solution to all of this is to buy 4mm round belting that you can make up your self (eg Whitsales UK)
 

£4.95 including postage for 1m. I cut the belt to length so that it will be barely tight, heat the ends (I have made a blade the fits in my 40W soldering iron, but most people use a cigarette lighter or micro-flame torch) and I then press them together. After a half a minute or so, it will have cooled to allow the raggedy bits to be trimmed off with a sharp scalpel. The belt is available in various diameters and the 3mm will work just as well, particularly for the auto-feed, if you have one. "

 

The next requirement will probably be motor brushes. 

 

If I may offer another bit of advice, get to know your lathes characteristics before trying any milling. You will find micro mills and lathes are more flexible than their larger brethren (physically rather than functionally) which is shown up by the lateral forces exerted by milling operations. 

 

When you do start to mill,  aim to do "conventional" rather than "climb" milling. Below illustrates the difference.

 

 

Climb milling produces a better finish but with micro machines the mill tend to flex away from the work rather than cut to the expected depth. You then will probably find the mill will bite in to the work, which will probably damage both the work and the mill bit. I know this because ... ?

 

The above is side milling. When you end mill you will find that tend to flex to one side with micro machines. With experience you will learn to compensate for this.

 

Whatever, with micro machines deep cuts will end up in tears. Take it steady! 

 

Ian.