How Low is Too Low?

[Ray Von]

Evening all.

What is the thinnest visually believable level of low relief building anyone has ever modelled? I have a 1cm space at the rear of my layout which I was just going to cop out with and use a retaining wall - I could model some building gable ends instead but I'm unsure how good they might look.  Has anyone ever modelled their backscene with super skinny buildings and if so, does it look ok?

Thank you.

[pH]

Would this be believable?

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/58187415@N00/2820811106

 

 

[johnb]

Well I've used simple printed card buiding ends, essentially the end wall o a card kit and I think it looks alright!

[Ray Von]

8 minutes ago, johnb said:

Well I've used simple printed card buiding ends, essentially the end wall o a card kit and I think it looks alright!

On the backscene? 

[Miss Prism]

http://bambrickstudio.co.uk/

 

[cypherman]

I have in the past just painted walls and roofs onto a back scene in the past.

[Steamport Southport]

Just looking at a backscene here on a video that Hornby Magazine posted when this thread appeared.

 

Does the flat ends of the terrace look good enough or would it be better with a bit more roof? I think I prefer the flat ends rather than a couple of centimetres of roof ending in sky.

 

Click the bold Hornby W1 Hush Hush

 

 

 

Jason

Edited October 10, 2020 by Steamport Southport

[Steadfast]

My take on it, from doing super low relief structures on backscenes, is the lower relief the better. A slightly proud building can cast shadows on the backscene, making the effect look weird. A thin plastic or card 2D building stuck on to a backscene will cast minimal shadow and if well executed can be very effective. I've used sides from plastic kits, scratchbuilt buildings and photos of real buildings printed and stuck on.

 

Jo

[YesTor]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

http://bambrickstudio.co.uk/

 

 

Those 3D backscenes appear incredibly convincing.

[DCB]

It depends on the angle the back scene can be viewed from.  If its a short fat layout like a 6X2 module you might get away with gable ends painted on a back scene but when you get to 15 or 20 feet then the angles will start to look very odd.  A retaining wall may be boring but it forms a nice cut off between layout and the wall and does not look odd when viewed from a number of different angles.

[johnb]

12 hours ago, Ray Von said:

On the backscene? 

Yes, and I also use StreetScenes flat printed sheets of assorted buildings. As my baseboards are only 300mm deep it suits me.

[doilum]

Try the super thin gable end but pack it so that it isn't perfectly flat to the backscene. Opinions are divided but you might explore the possibilities of decoupage.

[The Johnster]

Modelling a South Wales valley that actually exists (though in reality it does not have a mining village or the branch line that serves it) has led to a slightly different approach.  The real Dimbath Valley, between Blackmill and Glynogwr in Mid Glamorgan, is a steep and narrow declivity, farmed in it's lower reaches but further north into the mountains becomes too steep and narrow for that; it is given over to forestry.  On the model, all the trees are cut down for pitprops long ago and the terminus is separated only by the Dimbath stream running behind the station from the mountain on the eastern side of the valley, which rears up directly and not far off vertically from the stream for about 1.300 feet; we are already over 300' above sea level here.  

 

It's a work in progress, but the basis of the mountain is wargaming grass sheets deployed at a steep angle, so that when sitting in the operating chair, the mountain effectively fills your vision and you are not aware of the skyline unless you look up, recreating the view from about 40 or 50 feet up the Western mountain, which is 'assumed' rather than modelled.  The stream, yet to be actually modelled, is really quite narrow at this point, a single thin blue line on the 1:50k OS, but can carry a good bit of runoff water after heavy rain, not a rarity in this part of the world...  

 

A bridge carries it beneath the end of the platform as the railway crosses to the eastern bank, and I have yet to address the emergence of it west of the railway on the viewing side.  An extended cameo of pigeon lofts and rough sheep shelters, rock outcrops, and shrubbery draws the eye away from the more obvious anomalies, as does a sheep farmer's Land Rover.  It works well enough so long as you are not viewing along the layout, at which point the steepness becomes obvious.  The real mountain is fairly precipitous at this point, about a 70 degree slope, but the model is more like 85 in places.  

 

I have tried to suggest the skyline rising gently towards the north, which it does in reality, as do the rock strata, Pennant Sandstone, the idea being to promote the sense of a place hemmed in by ever higher, closer, and ever more forbidding mountains at one end but beginning to open out a little to the south, downstream.  A tributary enters from the east side about a quarter of a mile south of the modelled area, where my imagined colliery is, and the skyline is lower here to suggest this as much as possible.

 

This is an unconventional approach but I felt it was the best way to represent this very steep and narrow place.  I'm going to have trouble representing the village in low relief or backscene form at the left end of the layout, but will eventually tackle this.  The southern, right hand end, scenic break is unconventional as well.  I had planned to make a photographic backscene of Glamorgan mountains with a spur visible protruding from the west side of the valley blocking the view further down it, but in the even, the matt black scenic separator, angled away from the viewer, works very well.  There is a road bridge (no bus, the road's too narrow, I've got a group of sheep blocking the traffic instead) a few inches in front of it, also slightly angled away from the viewer, and a bracket signal to draw one's attention, and the lighting is arranged so that the trains sort of move out of your awareness as much as out of your sight.

 

 

Photo shows the basic concept; the stream runs behind the signal box and the bridge parapet shows where it dives beneath the railway.  The excuse for the unlikely NPCCS is a pigeon special.  The grass mat has been allowed to fold naturally to represent the shape of the mountainside; a sort of perspective modelling is involved.  It works for me, but is clearly only suited to locations that are very confined by their geography.  Note how there is a space between the rear face of the platform and the mountain, where the Dimbath stream runs (or will when I get around to modelling it).  The pigeon lofts are in full relief, but I've used the some of the lambs in the Scenecraft sheep packs to represent full size sheep further up the mountain; the less pleasant end of one is visible extreme left  The foreground sheep are Peco Scalescenes, a bit scraggier and more like Valleys sheep than the plump Baccy Scalescenes prima donnas; these are the beasts blocking the road on the bridge.  They are recent imports from Romney Marsh and don't like the steep slopes, or the weather (wait til they see what winter's like up here), or the other sheep, so one is staging a sit down protest while the others mill around the way sheep do when they confused by something, which is most of the time.

 

Photo taken a few minutes ago in natural light; the layout is orientated correctly.

[Barclay]

Very shallow low relief buildings can look fine viewed head on, especially flat roofs in my opinion. The trick is to try to hide the edge where it meets the backscene by blocking the line of sight, something I haven't managed here yet... (this one is from Scale Model Scenery)

 

[SonOfMike]

The green buildings in the photos here (The Anneka Rice Co.) are all less than 1  cm deep. They are basically some 5 mm foam board clad with balsa and card and are part of an HO micro layout which is less than 4 ft x 1 ft. I personally think they look OK; the right-angle between the buildings in the corner of the layout and the tree next to one of them hide the lack of depth somewhat. 

 

The little ammo and fishing tackle store to the left of the rice mill is also only about 2 cm deep.

[SonOfMike]

22 hours ago, Graham1960 said:

Did the Anneka Rice Co actually exist

It existed (and still does) within my warped mind 

[Ray Von]

23 hours ago, SonOfMike said:

The green buildings in the photos here (The Anneka Rice Co.) are all less than 1  cm deep. They are basically some 5 mm foam board clad with balsa and card and are part of an HO micro layout which is less than 4 ft x 1 ft. I personally think they look OK; the right-angle between the buildings in the corner of the layout and the tree next to one of them hide the lack of depth somewhat. 

 

The little ammo and fishing tackle store to the left of the rice mill is also only about 2 cm deep.

Some really nice tricks here using limited space to create the illusion of depth, very inspiring. Can I ask what paint you used on the wood? 

Cheers.

[SonOfMike]

3 hours ago, Ray Von said:

Can I ask what paint you used on the wood? 

I'm not really sure. It was a darkish green Tamiya acrylic which I bought because I liked the shade but I didn't really notice what it was called.

 

The wood on the buildings is a variety of materials. The board and batten style of the gable end is hand cut strips of balsa on a balsa sheet (I don't really like balsa but I had some lying about). The horizontal planking is hand cut (by eye) individual balsa planks on top of a foam core shell.  The buildings with the vertical planking are Noch textured and printed card sheets stuck to foam core.

 

In the case of the board and batten, the balsa was stained using dirty thinners to achieve a weathered wood effect and then sprayed with hairspray. The paint was then applied and then sightly rubbed off n places, using everything from a finger to some sandpaper, to reveal bits of the stained wood and in some cases raw wood. More dirty thinners was applied to create further weathering and to slightly craze the green paint (especially on the windows) to suggest peeling paint. Lastly it was lightly dry-brushed with a touch of white.

 

I'm not 100% sure that the hairspray did anything other than make it smell nice really, but I'm worth it 

 

The horizontal planking was stained before being stuck down and then treated and painted using the techniques described above.

 

The Noch sheets were panted in the direction of the printed grain (only because I had used them as-is for another building already) and I found that the paint didn't fully cover the underlying wood effect and created a lightly weathered paint effect without any real effort. Dry-brushing was  then applied to tie it all together with the other structures. 

 

The "architecture", style and construction of most of the buildings was very much dictated by what materials I had at hand. I didn't have enough of anything to do the whole lot so I just went a bit freestyle. There are some "during construction" photos in my layout thread.

 

Hope that helps.

[Ray Von]

6 hours ago, SonOfMike said:

Hope that helps.

Absolutely, I never really model any wooden structures but I'm keen to learn new skills and techniques, especially if the source material is cheap like balsa wood.  Maybe coffee stirrer sticks(?)  Thanks again.

[rob D2]

Due to fantastic design my retaining wall is 2mm card , and the low relief stuff needs to be as well .

 

it’ll look ok I hope