Diecast, Cast Iron & Tinplate Trains

[Il Grifone]

The Lone star were supposedly 000 scale (2mm to the foot), but how close to scale they are I have never checked. Seeing most of the rolling stock was Tri-ang inspired, I would think, "Not very".

[BernardTPM]

For the original pushalong series it would depend on how accurate the models they coped were.  All the Treble-0-Lectric locos were new designs. The Derby type 2 (Class 24) is the right size for 2mm scale (I checked that one ages ago), I will check the other two diesels tomorrow.

 

Apologies, it seems I don't have these to hand, must be with a friend still in storage .

Edited October 24, 2020 by BernardTPM

[Il Grifone]

I would suspect that the US diesels are a smaller scale, but I have never measured them.

[Canal Digger]

I stand corrected, the Mercury Trains are smaller than I remembered and are indeed N scaleish. My humble apologies 

[sncf231e]

On 10/10/2020 at 22:17, Canal Digger said:

Please is there anyone else interested in Diecast, Cast Iron or Tinplate (beyond Lone Star 000 and 0 Gauge clockwork/ electric)? 

 

Here is some tinplate clockwork that is not 0 gauge but smaller with a gauge of 28 (25) mm  and 33 (30) mm:

 

 

Regards

Fred

[Il Grifone]

SWMBO has forbidden me to buy this  , so, if anyone here is interested, there is an open wagon amongst this junk*. If I'm not mistaken, it's from a pre-war push-along goods train set (21b).

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Matchbox-Dinky-toys-Tractor-fordson-trailer-Bev-Massey-with-Defects

 

https://www.vectis.co.uk/lot/dinky-Hornby-series-no21-pre-war-train-set-no21a-loco_494683

 

(Usual disclaimer re Vectis)

 

*The 14a/400 BEV truck appears OK (as in fair) bar the missing driver. The grey colour is uncommon; usually they're blue.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Il Grifone

[Canal Digger]

Many thanks, yeah I bought it!

[Nearholmer]

If the platform truck in what you bought looks 0 scale, I might be interested.

[Il Grifone]

The BEV truck is allegedly 1' to 5/16" scale, but IIRC the driver appears rather small for this scale.

 

http://www.talkmodeltoys.com/discus/messages/27668/3616.html?1316983836

 

https://www.toymart.com/Dinky-14a-Bev-Electric-Truck/1190

 

https://www.chezbois.com/non_corgi/dinky_toys/Model_1193.htm

 

Mine is  not to hand to measure up and it lacks the driver anyway. The unboxed prices seem a bit low in the above link.

I find it unusual for any Dinky Toy to have an asking price under a fiver, unless it is really beat up. Saying that I did see a tray of paint free 29c/290 double deck buses once with the usual broken front mudguards at £2 each . (Two of them came home with me! )

Edited October 29, 2020 by Il Grifone

[Nearholmer]

35 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

1' to 5/16"

Which is within shooting distance of 0, if my calculations are correct, at just under 8mm/ft.

 

Because I regard Dinky things as minor accessories, rather than collectibles in their own right, I usually find the prices asked to be too high for my tastes.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Il Grifone]

From the third link the driver measures 44mm which puts him at 5' 6" in the alleged scale and about 6' 3" in 7mm - passable I would think.

 

That's how I look at Dinky Toys too. The buses and coaches, the 2 sets of figures and the Dublo Dinky range are 5/32" to the foot which is the Dublo scale and near enough 4mm. 0 gauge, on the other hand, is poorly served. AFAIK the only 1/43 models are the yard crane and the various figure sets. It comes from using 'box scale' I suppose.

I happily buy cheap tatty examples and restore them. Boot sales and charity shops are a good source of 'play-worn' vehicles. The 'fiver' rule rarely applies. (It's really a dealer thing!)

[Canal Digger]

Dinky collectors pay silly money (IMHO) to fill gaps in their collection, as shown by the estimates given by Vectis here: https://www.vectis.co.uk/lot/dinky-pre-war-16-silver-jubilee-train-set-comprising-of_828818

[Il Grifone]

I'll be surprised if that goes for only £120! I'll keep an eye on it (though I won't be bidding...).

 

That's about as good as it gets for one of those! MIB is not an option for pre-war Dinkies. The card box and rubber tyres inevitably show their age, even if the dreaded zinc pest hasn't got them (yet?).

There does seem to be a dip in the market though.

 

https://www.toymart.com/Dinky-16-Streamlined-Train-Set/1197

 

An optimist?  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362889044233

 

It could be only the effects of damp, rather than the pest though.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Il Grifone

[Canal Digger]

Yes, I've been watching this seller's other items for a while, all very hopeful.

Nearholmer re that Bev, if you send me your address (ie message me) I'll post it on to you when it arrives.

Have got permission from SWMBO to join TCS. however Paypal link not working

 

[sncf231e]

7 hours ago, Canal Digger said:

 

Have got permission from SWMBO to join TCS. however Paypal link not working

 

 

It looks like a TCS website problem (and not a Paypal problem); the members secretary e-mail is also on the TCS website, they will be very happy with new members!

 

Back on topic: my Dinky A4 train ( a Silver Jubilee is still on the wish list).

 

Regards

Fred

[Il Grifone]

I suppose it was asking too much for a full update of the casting. She kept her fairings over the wheels and the pre 1946 number, just losing the 'LNER'.

But then I never noticed when I was a boy, despite having both LNER blue and BR green versions. Stupidly, I had a clear out of my childhood Dinkies (and Corgis) and handed them down to my brother! 

I have since acquired a mixture The loco needs a repaint ( I sprayed her silver - mistake - one day I may correct it). I have the first half of the articulated unit in LNER teak and need the second. (I won't be buying the one at £22.50 + £4.75!).

[Canal Digger]

If you think that that the Dinky Silver Jubilee Coach was listed at an ambitious price, then try this: 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matchbox-Moko-Lesney-Train-Locomotive-Rare/114285509885

 

The little that I have looked into 0 Gauge Clockwork, prices are steep there also, so my collection has avoided them (so far), apart from which I would need to enlarge the house to store/ display. 

 

TCS Membership paid

[Nearholmer]

Common O gauge clockwork items shouldn’t be expensive, but you do have to avoid certain dealers, who are perennially optimistic, and the odd individual who just simply gets the pricing all wrong. Clearly, the very best, rarest etc do go to high prices, as with anything.

[Dorkingian]

Early French models

 

Looking at the photos earlier in this thread prompted me to dig out my father's first toy train, which is a PLM Pacific loco number 44 with very damaged tender.  The box is unlabelled but has the inscription "To George, from Grace" (probably his aunt).

 

 

 

Under the footplate is the following message:

 

 

Fred has kindly pointed out that this makes it a Simon & Rivollet item.  They seem to have produced a wide range of small metal toys, mostly not railway related.

 

The question then arises about a date.  My father was born in 1909 so was only five at the outbreak of the First World War, whereas after 1918 S&R probably weren't able to manufacture and export to the UK straight away.  So I'm wondering whether this model is up to 110 years old (it looks rather delicate to be given to an under-five child) or merely around a century old.  The latter seems more likely to me.

 

[sncf231e]

According to "The book of Penny Toys" by David Pressland, Simon et Rivollet started in 1890, exported to Britain and America from 1910 through the twenties and stopped production in the mid twenties. Since the locomotive is a "model" of the PLM pacific, which was introduced in 1909, the toy was made later than that date. In the picture (from the book) the locomotive pulls a PLM train with Paris Rome on the side, i.e. the Paris Rome Express (which started in 1893).

 

 

Regards

Fred

[Il Grifone]

23 hours ago, Canal Digger said:

If you think that that the Dinky Silver Jubilee Coach was listed at an ambitious price, then try this: 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matchbox-Moko-Lesney-Train-Locomotive-Rare/114285509885

 

The little that I have looked into 0 Gauge Clockwork, prices are steep there also, so my collection has avoided them (so far), apart from which I would need to enlarge the house to store/ display. 

 

TCS Membership paid

 

Now that is rare!* It makes the Dinky train common. I have never seen one in the metal!

I believe there was a motorised one on the Craig & Mertonshire Railway?

 

I assume it's based on this;

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_1101_Class

 

* Obviously a dealer, witness the prices asked.

Including this one, showing the first signs of zincpest (I had an orange post-war example - I assume my brother's still got it unless his SWMBO made him get rid of them!)

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dinky-Toys-Prewar-25f-Market-Gardeners-Type-2-Thin-axles/114285458646?hash=item1a9bf1b4d6:g:DbsAAOSw54he~Lop

 

There's a reasonably priced example here. It's post war and restored but one can't have everything. It should have black tyres and the orange is rather light. The '20' sign should be on the left  from what I remember. This is a reliable dating clue, asDinky altered to '30' when the speed limit was increased - the 25 series was modernised at about (the same?) time. (I don't think it's a repro (as the seller professes ignorance) but even so the price is OK. One is looking at £25 for the bits for a repro IIRC.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Il Grifone

[Il Grifone]

Further to the above:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dinky-Toys-No-16-Silver-Jubilee-Train-Set-Prewar/113845080388?hash=item1a81b21144:g:638AAOSwXE9dSVoF

 

A vast  range of spare parts (including Hornby and Dublo figures and a limited range of spares) are available from:  (Usual disclaimer - I have a long list of parts to order and no spare cash....    )

 

http://model-supplies.co.uk/modelprods.htm

 

They also do repro models at a bit less than the £25 I quoted in the last post.

 

http://model-supplies.co.uk/car_kits.htm

[Canal Digger]

Anyone want a BEV & trailer?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Dinky-B-E-V-Train-station-Platform-and-trailer-ref-428-551/164391020398?hash=item264677e76e:g:qowAAOSwmRlfUOPC

[Il Grifone]

The price is not unreasonable, however the 'trailer' is actually the Dinky hand cart, modified by removal of the tow handle. They never did a proper trailer despite the tow hook.

 

Here's a complete hand cart from Italy:

https://www.ebay.it/itm/DINKY-TOYS-105-C-4-wheeled-Hand-Cart-/164395842795

 

(Just the first one to come up on a Google search, no other connection.)

[dunwurken]

On 31/10/2020 at 11:33, Canal Digger said:

If you think that that the Dinky Silver Jubilee Coach was listed at an ambitious price, then try this: 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matchbox-Moko-Lesney-Train-Locomotive-Rare/114285509885

 

On 01/11/2020 at 10:59, Il Grifone said:

 

Now that is rare!* It makes the Dinky train common. I have never seen one in the metal!

I believe there was a motorised one on the Craig & Mertonshire Railway?

 

I assume it's based on this;

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_1101_Class

 

* Obviously a dealer, witness the prices asked.

You are correct David there was one on the Craig and Mertonford called 'Ian'.   The body is a commercial 3.5mm scale casting of a GWR ‘1101’ class dock shunter which was produced for the toy market in the late 1940’s / early 1950’s by Richard Kohnstram under his “Moko” label.  PD undertook his conversion in 1949/50 and details can be found in MRN Jun 1952 pages114 to 117 and Narrow  Gauge Adventure pages 64/5 & 68/9/70.  On p107 of the RM for May 1954 we learn that “Ian” has met with an accident having plunged a scale 300 feet onto the floor.   “Ian’s” woes continued because on p254 of the Nov 1955 RM we are informed that “Ian” is temporarily out of commission due to a crank working loose.  He/she was still out of commission in 1958.  [RM Feb 1958 p28].  Whether “Ian” ever worked again is open to question for whilst the body of the locomotive still survives in a box in an attic there is no chassis, it having been removed by PD, possibly cannibalised for any re-useable parts.  Photo below - 'Ian' when almost new.

Early Days - Ian by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

 

A few tribute/replica 'Ians' have been built including one by myself.   I bought my body shell for 99p +p&p!!!  It did not look good but then I was not looking for a model to stuff in a showcase.   I subsequently. for the showcase. acquired another loco and two wagons [there were at least 4 on the C&MR] for £27.   I have seen £60 to £70 being paid for a good one but £145 for one in that condition is cloud cuckoo land.   Photo of my 'Ian' attached. She/he is in the later yellow/green livery. 'Ian' never appeared in this livery in any published photos but there is an unpublished photo of her/him in this later livery. 

C&MR 'Ian' repica 'Iain' by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

 

Malcolm