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Multiple EMU formations - help requested


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EPB formations also worked to Ramsgate on a few extended ‘62’ CX-Dartford-Gillingham semifasts around the early 80s. And yes they worked Strood-Maidstone West-Paddock Wood at various times. 
I spotted in Kent from about 1977 to 86, and never saw 2xMLVs on a boat train or any other for that matter. 

Edited by eastwestdivide
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On 11/10/2020 at 09:49, SRman said:

 

I disagree - see Olddudders' comment before yours and after my original post.

The speed of the train is always limited by the lowest speed of any vehicle in the train. The back emf on the traction motors of the slower speed unit will not permit that unit to run much faster than 75mph. It was drummed into us at Waterloo South Side training school for 6 months. :)

And in my time as a driver at Addiscombe, 1979-1980, we had regular EPB workings from CX to Gilligham.

If the electrical index exceeded that stated in the working instructions, the driver could always the control cut-out switch to isolate motors in one coach, hence a 12-whatever with 2xMLV could run with 1 MLV with the control switch cut out. But who know what happened in practice!

An easy way to work out what SR stock could run in multiple is the jumper cables. If they're the "standard" BR/SR type with 2 high level pipes each side and a pullman style rubbing plate then they can operate in multiple regardless. Older SR stock had low level air pipes and different jumper cables and could run in multiple with similar stock. It "could" run with BR stock but only in emergency with no through control and using the Westinghouse air brake. The SR stock did not have the EP brake, lights and control circuits were all line volts!

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There was a late night departure in the early years of the Bournemouth line electrification which consisted of a 33/1 + 2xTCs + 4-VEP. The train divided at Basingstoke with the 33/1 and TCs going to Salisbury and the 4VEP going down the Bournemouth line, but I think it only went as far as Eastleigh. 

 

There's also a classic picture in Colin Marsden's book about the 73s showing their versatility, showing a consist of 4-CEP + 73 + Bulleid 3-set, with the 73 converting the braking signals to vacuum for the Bulleid coaches. No doubt there are many other possibilities too.

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Regarding express geared 2-EPBs, was there any external indication that they were different from 'standard' 2-EPB units? I am guessing that if not then it is simply a matter of renumbering?

 

Also, I seem to recall that the those were all later builds based upon the Mk1 carriage profile, same as the Bachmann model?

 

Thanks again for all the information - being totally ignorant of such details, every nugget is pure gold to me!

 

Steve S

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A real novelty was the 8MIG, which I saw at Waterloo in July 1983.  It was made up of a 4CIG, Buffet Car, and a 3CIG.  The 3CIG may well have been a '4' with one car removed and the buffet looked like standard mark 1 hauled stock, no doubt through wired.  The set I think lasted for a short time and  I assume was put together due to a shortage of 'normal' catering equipped sets - I assume this would have been for overhaul of the latter.  I can only remember seeing it once

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On 13/10/2020 at 10:17, wasabi said:

A real novelty was the 8MIG, which I saw at Waterloo in July 1983.  It was made up of a 4CIG, Buffet Car, and a 3CIG.  The 3CIG may well have been a '4' with one car removed and the buffet looked like standard mark 1 hauled stock, no doubt through wired.  The set I think lasted for a short time and  I assume was put together due to a shortage of 'normal' catering equipped sets - I assume this would have been for overhaul of the latter.  I can only remember seeing it once

 

Thank goodness this is two decades out of my time frame! 🤭

 

Steve S

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2 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Regarding express geared 2-EPBs, was there any external indication that they were different from 'standard' 2-EPB units? I am guessing that if not then it is simply a matter of renumbering?

 

Also, I seem to recall that the those were all later builds based upon the Mk1 carriage profile, same as the Bachmann model?

 

Thanks again for all the information - being totally ignorant of such details, every nugget is pure gold to me!

 

Steve S

I don't know whether the two units had any additional markings, but read that they had B4 (5357) and B5 (5358) bogies. Visually they were just standard BR 4-EPBs. I think the M&EE types would call them '57 Stock' in contrast to the Bulleid-style EPBs known as '51 Stock'. When units run in a strict all-round-working, it is easier to keep an eye on them. They would have sat at Streatham Hill all day between trips, rather than being uncoupled from the mainline units and released into suburban service. For a lot of info, try bloodandcustard.com.

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4 hours ago, roythebus said:

An easy way to work out what SR stock could run in multiple is the jumper cables. If they're the "standard" BR/SR type with 2 high level pipes each side and a pullman style rubbing plate then they can operate in multiple regardless. Older SR stock had low level air pipes and different jumper cables and could run in multiple with similar stock. It "could" run with BR stock but only in emergency with no through control and using the Westinghouse air brake. The SR stock did not have the EP brake, lights and control circuits were all line volts!

 

The exception to that was the Diesel units, which couldn't run in multiple with the electrics - from what I remember, they were supposed to, but the jumper cables were wired up the wrong way around...

 

2 hours ago, wasabi said:

A real novelty was the 8MIG, which I saw at Waterloo in July 1983.  It was made up of a 4CIG, Buffet Car, and a 3CIG.  The 3CIG may well have been a '4' with one car removed and the buffet looked like standard mark 1 hauled stock, no doubt through wired.  The set I think lasted for a short time and  I assume was put together due to a shortage of 'normal' catering equipped sets - I assume this would have been for overhaul of the latter.  I can only remember seeing it once

 

There were 2 MIGs according to Wikipedia, used while the BIGs were undergoing asbestos removal. There was also the 8VAB, made from an assortment of VEP cars with a conventional buffet car in the middle, for Bournemouth line use.

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There were a few “wired buffets”, fitted with EMU jumpers, for use between TC units when loco-hauled.

 

I believe the DEMU-EMU jumper incompatibility was deliberate, because they had such different characteristics that in multiple they would have given one another hernias.

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  • 2 years later...

“Resurrecting” an old thread, there was an earlier mention of a TLV (trailing luggage van); does anyone know of any kit or 3D print for suchlike?

 

I’ve done a Google search for “TLV” and it didn’t return the results expected, so any help - kits, prints, drawings - appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Steve S

 

UPDATE

 

Having stumbled across the bloodandcustard.com website and read through the information therein about the MLVs and TLVs, it transpires that TLVs are well outside my period of interest, and so I need not after all worry about modelling one! 🤣

 

 

Edited by SteveyDee68
Discovered my query isn’t necessary!
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