Proceedings of the Castle Aching Parish Council, 1905

[Compound2632]

11 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

See ''Get BR---T done!''

 

Or, how to become a lawless rogue state.

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

the proposed course of action would be in breach of maritime law

 

23 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

See ''Get BR---T done!''

I thought the English wrote most of maritime law, as well as English Common Law being the basis for most international trade and commerce. Not sure why we would want to ditch that, but there you go. 

[Edwardian]

16 minutes ago, Regularity said:

 

I thought the English wrote most of maritime law, as well as English Common Law being the basis for most international trade and commerce. Not sure why we would want to ditch that, but there you go. 

 

Yeah, only a complete idiot would want to do that.

[Regularity]

22 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Yeah, only a complete idiot would want to do that.

Apparently there are about 17million of them.

[Compound2632]

27 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Apparently there are about 17million of them.

 

I think that's a little harsh on most of the 17 million. Lied to and seduced by nostalgic fantasies, maybe. Unscrupulously manipulated for the benefit of a bunch of carpet-baggers.

[Regularity]

I think most of the warnings made 5 years ago about Boris’s “promises” turned out to be true.

[Caley Jim]

It is my understanding that the French are always trying to 'get one over' on everyone else, even their own.  I've seen it said that the old ladies selling 'Home Made Jam' in the village markets buy it in large tins from the wholesalers, put it in jars, stick fancy labels on and then sell it on the stall for twice the price!

 

Jim

[Compound2632]

11 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

It is my understanding that the French are always trying to 'get one over' on everyone else, even their own.  I've seen it said that the old ladies selling 'Home Made Jam' in the village markets buy it in large tins from the wholesalers, put it in jars, stick fancy labels on and then sell it on the stall for twice the price!

 

That would never happen with home-made Dundee marmalade, I'm sure.

[alastairq]

10 hours ago, Regularity said:

Apparently there are about 17million of them.

 At last, I have achieved success in my long & miserable life!

I am [according to popular opinion] now a ''complete'' idiot!

I think my one saving grace over the past  half decade must have been, refusing to listen to any of the arguments...none of which got past my front door!

Or convinced me, my long-held views needed modifying!

 

 

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

11 minutes ago, alastairq said:

 .... refusing to listen to any of the arguments...none of which got past my front door!

Or convinced me, my long-held views needed modifying!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh dear! So, no excuse then 

[alastairq]

5 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Oh dear! So, no excuse then 

 Well, perhaps an 'indeed' is needed there?

 

Not much in the preceding 36 years has convinced me my  initial vote was wrong,either.

 

Markets and trade are one thing.

Political interference is something else entirely.

 

What really does amuse me [it would amaze others, but merely amuses me!]....is the stance taken by Her Majesty's Opposition?

Given how the EU,  as an institution, was so completely in opposition to the basic views of the Labour party?

 

But then I have long suspected the Labour party has become only slightly to the  left of the staunch conservatives....only slightly.......

 

As for political promises?

To me, they are like marriage!

 

In other words, very rare that they work out as intended!

[Nearholmer]

I prefer to speak as I find regarding French people, and I’ve come across really charming and kind people, as well as people who have honed dismissive rudeness to a degree where they do it with such style that it is actually a pleasure to be put down by them.

 

Anyway, a lot is forgivable in a country that puts such high emphasis on good quality bread and coffee.

[monkeysarefun]

7 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I prefer to speak as I find regarding French people, and I’ve come across really charming and kind people, as well as people who have honed dismissive rudeness to a degree where they do it with such style that it is actually a pleasure to be put down by them.

 

Anyway, a lot is forgivable in a country that puts such high emphasis on good quality bread and coffee.

Your Mother was a Hamster, and your Father smelt of Elderberries!

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

11 hours ago, Regularity said:

 

I thought the English wrote most of maritime law, as well as English Common Law being the basis for most international trade and commerce. Not sure why we would want to ditch that, but there you go. 

 

Yes but that was when

 

"Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves ..... " 

 

And if you didn't like it they'd send a gumboot to sort you out. Now things have changed a little ...... 

[Edwardian]

Sovereignty is an abstract concept. Every international treaty a country enters is a partial surrender of it. Once you overcome the amorphous and essentially meaningless emotive view of sovereignty, you realise that it is merely a tradeable commodity, like anything else, rather than some 'mystic soul of the nation' tosh. That realisation enables us to understand how Britain has recently exchanged a relatively good bargain for a relatively bad one.  I fear the Scots are on the verge of doing likewise.

[alastairq]

33 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

a relatively good bargain for a relatively bad one.  I fear the Scots are on the verge of doing likewise.

 Relative....to what?

[alastairq]

36 minutes ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

"Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves ..... " 

  I suspect much of that wasn't down  to the ''actions'' of government, but the appropriate [or otherwise, as it might turn out] actions of individuals who were ''in command'' , on site, so to speak?

Given the length of time it took to communicate back in those days, micro management by government wasn't easy....Much reliance  was placed on the abilities of those in command, locally.

Nowadays, if a lowly military person is confronted with a decision to be made, they can refer back to the highest authority  in an instant.

 

I believe today, management [whether military or otherwise]  has descended into a policy of mediocrity.

 

Actually not being risk-averse is seen as a 'bad thing'.

 

Not that I blame management, which has been pushed towards that situation .  I mean, why bother taking a risk, when lying low is rewarded?

 

We all clamour for 'decisions', but in reality, we don't want decisions at all.  In case they prove to be unsuitable.

 

I must admit, when I first heard we were going to have a Referendum, my immediate reaction was....''AT LAST''

 

My next immediate fear was, were we not going to be asked the pertinent questions?

 

[Which is why I dislike surveys! I know what my answers will be, but I don't get asked the right questions that enable me to give those answers.  I dislike multi-choice  assessments either...simply because, none of the answers I have to choose from are, in my opinion, the right answers...just someone else's idea of what might be 'right!']

[Edwardian]

17 minutes ago, alastairq said:

 Relative....to what?

The alternative, obviously

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, alastairq said:

 

As for political promises?

To me, they are like marriage!

 

In other words, very rare that they work out as intended!

 

Channeling Ambrose Bierce:

 

Marriage /ˈmarɪdʒ/ noun: (As between a man and a woman) a temporary alliance of natural enemies

[Andy Hayter]

1 hour ago, alastairq said:

 Well, perhaps an 'indeed' is needed there?

 

Not much in the preceding 36 years has convinced me my  initial vote was wrong,either.

 

Markets and trade are one thing.

Political interference is something else entirely.

 

What really does amuse me [it would amaze others, but merely amuses me!]....is the stance taken by Her Majesty's Opposition?

Given how the EU,  as an institution, was so completely in opposition to the basic views of the Labour party?

 

But then I have long suspected the Labour party has become only slightly to the  left of the staunch conservatives....only slightly.......

 

As for political promises?

To me, they are like marriage!

 

In other words, very rare that they work out as intended!

 

 

An interesting perspective from the other side Alistair.

 

AS one who has lived under the complete tyranny of the EU and its constituents for 25 years, my perspective is rather different.

 

Politics and political parties in the main within Europe are far more socialist than in the UK.  There are exceptions of course often bolstered by British Brexit (and probably bankrolled by the same scallywags) AfD in Germany, FN in France being 2 examples.  Parties such as the CDU in Germany ( a right of centre German party currently in power but quite likely to lose it to a left wing party at the next election) are rather to the left of Labour in most of its policies over the time I have been on the continent.  

 

Many of the perceived interferences from Brussels in the UK were in  fact the British Governments' intransigence to do things they were always allowed to do under EU rules.

As examples:

 

Immigration - the UK always had the ability to eject (permanently if necessary) EU immigrants who were or became a burden on society.  That it failed to eject people ( whether criminals, those demanding social security payments or whatever) suggests that those people were in fact needed and contributing positively to the UK economy - something that maybe is now coming to light   with shortages of care workers, HGV drivers, fruit and vegetable pickers, abattoir workers etc..

 

Blue passports - they were always possible but never introduced until they became a symbol of "freedom from the EU".  There was never a mandated standard for EU passports in terms of the colour of the cover.  

 

Sovereignty - accepting Edwardian's comments about the impact of any treaty (and the UK is now rushing around the rest of the world getting new treaties), the UK never lost sovereignty - witness that it was able to leave the EU.  This was largely smoke and mirrors created to support the exit.  Witness also the number of derogations the UK had regarding other supposed imposed EU standards.

 

But I guess we will just have to disagree on this point.

[alastairq]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

Politics and political parties in the main within Europe are far more socialist than in the UK.  There are exceptions of course often bolstered by British Brexit (and probably bankrolled by the same scallywags) AfD in Germany, FN in France being 2 examples.  Parties such as the CDU in Germany ( a right of centre German party currently in power but quite likely to lose it to a left wing party at the next election) are rather to the left of Labour in most of its policies over the time I have been on the continent.

 I was referring to the 'social leanings' of the EU establishment , rather than the political leanings of parties within constituent EU members.

 

As such, many stalwarts of the UK labour party [and movement, including one J Corbin, when younger]....back in the1970's and 1980's, were politically against sidling up to the EU, due to the Obvious political stance of the EU establishment [nothing to do with individual member's politics]..The EU most definitely had an anti-socialist stance.

 

 

Personally, I think De Gaulle had it spot pon all those years when he blocked any attempts by the UK government to join his little club.

 

Perhaps history was being learnt-from, back then, in that, for France, it was 'better' to have an independant GB upon which to rely, should elsewhere in Europe get above themselves?

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

5 minutes ago, alastairq said:

As such, many stalwarts of the UK labour party [and movement, including one J Corbin, when younger]....back in the1970's and 1980's, were politically against sidling up to the EU, due to the Obvious political stance of the EU establishment [nothing to do with individual member's politics]..The EU most definitely had an anti-socialist stance.

 

"The Treaty of Rome enshrines capitalism", they would say.

 

But I think a lot of misunderstandings arose from the fundamental philosophical differences between the European and Anglo-Saxon political parties. The Christian Democrats were rooted in a paternalistic ideal of the Common Good - heavily influenced by Catholic social teaching - and the Social Democrats paid much more attention to socialist theory than the British Labour Party. The ideals of these parties were poorly-aligned with the British parties, which in the 50s and 60s still felt the influence of their roots in Anglicanism and Methodism.

[rocor]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 I fear the Scots are on the verge of doing likewise.

 

A push for further devolution, with the threat of another referendum being held, used to strengthen the case for it, would appear to be the safer bet.  

[Edwardian]

Just now, rocor said:

 

A push for further devolution, with the threat of another referendum being held, used to strengthen the case for it, would appear to be the safer bet.  

 

That, I think, would prove a much better outcome for both Scotland and the union as a whole, but it is a choice for those residing in Scotland.  One inevitably still has views, not least because it is not good to see a neighbour do something you believe is not in his (or your) interest.  But, that is, nevertheless, his business. It is rather, I suspect, a bit like the B-word; where there was a legitimate concern over the quality of 'rule' one got from Westminster (I am sure that was a big factor in, for instance, North-East England), in which case the diagnosis was reasonably correct.  It was the prescription that was totally wrong.    

[alastairq]

2 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

That, I think, would prove a much better outcome for both Scotland and the union as a whole, but it is a choice for those residing in Scotland. 

 I do wonder what sort of result might ensue, had everybody else had the choice about the future of Scotland, instead?