Proceedings of the Castle Aching Parish Council, 1905

[Welchester]

11 hours ago, MrWolf said:

You lucky dog. Over here, if you weren't obsessed with football from the minute you could walk you were seen as queer in every sense and became an absolute pariah.

 

My experience was different. We were made to play rugby at school (single sex grammar). Once a boy asked, 'Sir, sir, please sir, can we play soccer instead of rugby, sir?' The head of games, a  Welshman - Illtyd Pearce (can you see where this is going?) replied, 'What you want to play soccer for, boy? Bloody p**fs' game.'

[alastairq]

These days, eating more food of a plantish nature, at a basic level, is down to cost....or, rather, income, IMHO.

The trouble with vegetarianism and veganism these days is the sheer cost of the food, in an easily assembled [IE making some sort of palatable meal?] lies in the realms of the comfortably off, financially. Like, saving the planet...fine if you can afford it, a real pain if living on a minimal income!

I have no real idea why there is such an almost antagonistic feeling towards so-called 'fast' food?

After all, it has been around for many hundreds of years, all over the world! [If not, thousands of years?}

 Another description I have heard it called is 'street food'...

 

By extension, we can posh it all up by extending fast food into restaurant food.....in respect of the fact we know, sat at the table, very little about what has gone into that gucci plate of stuff thrust in front of us? In return for an astonishing amount of money[The cost, to me, of an average restaurant lunch or supper, especially  down south, would  in fact feed me comfortably for more than a week!]

As for 'processed' food?

Pot noodles are but the tip if the iceberg.....We also need to include sausages [which may, or may not, contain any animal products?]....bacon, etc.

Mushy peas? Pickles purchased [or otherwise?] from supermarkets?

FAst food is the world's answer to feeding those populations that, due to their [chosen or otherwise] lifestyle, cannot go out and feed themselves [foraging in Hyde Park?}

Good old fish n chips?  Fast food if ever there was!

Then there's the whelk stalls, jellied eels, cornflakes, gucci health foods packaged to appeal to those with more money than they know what to do with...

 

Crikey, there's even a Nandos advert appearing at the bottom of my screen as I type...[I am not too sure what Nandos  sells, or why it is so popular?]

Unless one has the means to have a fire burning locally sourced burny stuff...maybe outside in one's garden, then buying or scrounging raw food materials and creating a meal  is actually a more expensive way of feeding than one might imagine...and, apparently, it will get worse.

Electricity? Gas?

Factor in the sheer cost of buying a stove to cook on?  

The  anti fast food brigade were also noted for shunning microwave cookery before.....Yet that has possibly got to be the cheapest way of cooking food these days[aside from the fire outside?]?

 

On the meat side of things, I had an aunt [once] who developed severe arthritis in her hands/fingers...a bit of a bind for her as she was  an artist of sorts.

She discovered that by excluding red meats from her diet, the effects of arthritis became less pronounced....

Personally, I find these days I eat more in the way of vegetables than I used to......a symptom of older age perhaps? Also a means of 'surviving' on a very restricted income.  But, i still eat meat......as & when I can afford it.....locally sourced, ie from field to fridge...rather than anonymous supermarket trays...

I pay almost double the price for a chicken by buying locally from a farm butchers'....so I know where & when the raw material came from.

None of this stuff being imported from foreign climes, then being repackaged and sold as ''British'....

Due to the cost of my preferences, I try to eke the chicken out through my dietary week a bit more than I'd bother if I'd bought from Tescos [as an example....chose mass retailer of choice]

It takes time & effort though....and a lot of onions.

But then, luckily, I don't have to be anywhere else, doing stuff for others in return for a meagre pittance...

 

 

[Nearholmer]

6 minutes ago, alastairq said:

The trouble with vegetarianism and veganism these days is the sheer cost of the food, in an easily assembled [IE making some sort of palatable meal?] lies in the realms of the comfortably off

Not true, if you can afford to put a bit of time into the job. In fact, very untrue indeed.

 

Vegetables aren’t expensive, nor is rice, lentils, or dried split-peas, or pasta, neither are spices (if you buy big bags from Indian grocers). Tinned tomatoes are cheap etc.

 

It is possible to eat well and cheaply if you use mainly the above, use meat very sparingly to add protein and flavour if you aren’t vegetarian,  and cook it yourself. 
 

It does take a bit of time, which I think is where things crash-out for a lot of two-parents-working-on-low-wages families, but for pensioners it’s perfect, cheap and better than watching daytime telly!

 

TBH, I’m no great cook, but can manage to make tasty and edible things, even if the menu gets a bit repetitious. My good lady is a very good cook, and can make cheap meals, or fancy expensive ones, both of which taste great. 

 

The people to study are Indian vegetarians. They know how to make really tasty stuff, cheaply, using spices to lift otherwise boring ingredients. Simple risotto is another easy cheapie that is really tasty (stock, rice, onions, garlic, Parmesan grated-in at the end …. Not complicated).

 

 

[Andy Hayter]

Nothing wrong with fast food per se.   

Take the pizza as a classic example.  Flour, water, yeast as a base and topped with tomato and possibly a bit of cheese.  Except perhaps for the cheese, nothing could be simpler nor could you say anything was unhealthy.

Now look at a frozen pizza - in addition to the above, you will find anti-oxidant xyz, colourant abc, acid stabiliser vuw and so on.  What was simple street food/fast food is now a chemical factory.

[Nearholmer]

Yep, we have pizza maybe once a fortnight, but make the dough, and chop up all the bits to go on top. There’s nothing wrong with it.

[drmditch]

Re: Milk and calves

I do try to be aware of the real world around me, and I did study Biology at 'O' Level.

However, is it now allowable, post BSE, for animals from the 'dairy' industry to enter the human food chain?

[Andy Hayter]

I don't think there are any controls now in place to prevent dairy cows entering the human food chain.  There are controls to avoid BSE/CJD.

 

https://www.food.gov.uk/safety-hygiene/bovine-spongiform-encephalopathy-bse

 

 

 

[rocor]

18 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

At least it was played during summer. The real horror was cross country running, when the fields surrounding our school were either like the Somme or Stalingrad. Yet another opportunity to reinforce the adolescent heirachy. 

"You need the excercise!" (Then why can't we run around the outfields of the school? ) Besides, I cycled five miles to get here this morning!

I'm certain that they could have found a more enjoyable method of us getting exercise (Which I am all for considering the state of subsequent generations.) than either getting caked in mud or feeling your lungs freeze.

Then they stopped us playing proper rugby on safety grounds and turned it into a game of tag! I might not have been able to run as fast as some of the others, but I could sure stop them!

 

Cross-country running was the only school sport that I had any aptitude for. I usually managed to finish the run within the first half dozen runners. An advantage of this was that the water in the showers was still reasonably warm, unlike the hyperthermia inducing temperatures that the late finishers would suffer. Once I was induced to signing up for an interschool run, I finished somewhere in midfield, and remember feeling profoundly disappointed. 

 

 

 

 

[Regularity]

Cross-country struck me as one of the most mindless ideas in PE. I understand the need to get people to try out and learn different athletic activities, and to see to what they are suited, but it’s fairly easy to get children to run twice round a running track to see who I suited to the event, and weed out those who - like me - become part of a straggling and drawn-out line of kids who are simply cold and bored.

On the other hand, there was the memorable incident when the route was being outlined for our very first run, and Mr. Spencer (as unlike the archetypal bully-turned-PE teacher as you would find) described going around a fallen tree - useful as a marker - only for Paul N to chirp up from the back of the group with, “I went for a c@ck behind that in the summer holidays!”

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

Nothing wrong with fast food per se. 

Except when it is full of nasty chemicals.

 

Oh, and when it is slow, and cold…

[MrWolf]

56 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Except when it is full of nasty chemicals.

 

Oh, and when it is slow, and cold…

 

Exactomundo.

 

Back in the 80s, fish and chips (the most basic and least messed with fast food) was relatively cheap and of a similar quality, at least in the Midlands it was.

Now it is difficult to find good fish and chips and virtually impossible to find it cheaply, average being £6-8 around here.

We probably have it two or three times a year, usually when we've been out for the day. 

There is a simple way to find out if a chippy does good fish and chips though.

If the establishment offers kebabs and pizzas as well, walk away. Chances are there's a lot of hydrogenated vegetable oil about.

If that stuff can block a main sewer, who knows what it can do to your insides?

[Nearholmer]

2 hours ago, rocor said:

Cross-country running was the only school sport that I had any aptitude for.

I was alright at it too, but more because it required no aptitude than because I had any. Provided you were ‘walking fit’, which our family was because because we had no car, the only quality required was bloody-minded determination, which I’ve never lacked. I get on OK with cycling, even now, for the same reason: I’m a poor athlete, and a slow cyclist, but am fairly good at just plugging away at it. Games of skill and athleticism always defeated me completely.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Nearholmer

[MrWolf]

The problem that I and a good number of others had with cross country was the time of year. I was and still am walking fit, did and still do a lot of cycling,* even some time trialling back then as well as a good amount of outdoor work.

The problem was the cold air, some of us became breathless with it and because we could run perfectly well in summer, were just considered lazy. Those who had full blown asthma had a terrible time with it.

If you didn't get back within a certain time you were made to run the course again. 

 

* I'd just like to point out that most of my bicycles are older than I am and I can ride plenty fast in everyday clothing.

To quote Miss Riding Hood: "The first time you dress up like some weird sex toy to ride a bicycle, I'm leaving."

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by MrWolf
Typing with hind paws again...

[alastairq]

4 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Not true, if you can afford to put a bit of time into the job. In fact, very untrue indeed.

 

Vegetables aren’t expensive, nor is rice, lentils, or dried split-peas, or pasta, neither are spices (if you buy big bags from Indian grocers). Tinned tomatoes are cheap etc.

 

It is possible to eat well and cheaply if you use mainly the above

 HAs anybody priced up the various veggy-based products currently being advertised on TV?

 

Pulses do take a deal of preparation.  Big bags of spices, etc are also costly enough, when one factors in the expense of travelling to these outlets, parking, etc?  For one person they also don't make sense from a  storage viewpoint.

I now avoid tomatoes due to their acidity. Not that I don't 'like' them....

But, at the end of the day, there is an expense involved when 'stocking' one's kitchen cupboard.

 

What's all this veggy lookalike thing all about, then?

Why make a vegetable look like a piece of chicken?

 

[alastairq]

2 hours ago, Regularity said:

Except when it is full of nasty chemicals.

 

Oh, and when it is slow, and cold…

 

No more nasty chemicals than in  any of the pre-packed, pre-ordained, meals or foods we see being hungrily snapped up  off every supermarkets' cabinets every day?

[alastairq]

My issue with fish n chips lies mainly with the stuff they cook it all in?

Still , cannot be any worse than the average kebab of a night-time?

 

The only so-called 'fast' food I really enjoyed, I cannot find any more....Even in Morrisons [a supermarket I am most reluctant to patronise]

That was, the freshly roasted belly pork that a Bridlington butcher used to sell.  Crisp crackling, really tasty...far superior to a corned beef sarnie come lunchtime [10 o'clock in the morning sometimes, for me as a bus driver!]   About a three or four inch square, best purchased whilst still fresh & hot.

As far as I was concerned, rabbit food could remain as such!

[MrWolf]

6 minutes ago, alastairq said:

 HAs anybody priced up the various veggy-based products currently being advertised on TV?

 

Pulses do take a deal of preparation.  Big bags of spices, etc are also costly enough, when one factors in the expense of travelling to these outlets, parking, etc?  For one person they also don't make sense from a  storage viewpoint.

I now avoid tomatoes due to their acidity. Not that I don't 'like' them....

But, at the end of the day, there is an expense involved when 'stocking' one's kitchen cupboard.

 

What's all this veggy lookalike thing all about, then?

Why make a vegetable look like a piece of chicken?

 

 

It's an attempt to recruit the eaters of "regular" food. I suspect that it's more to do with profits than any real altruism regarding health or saving the planet.

 

We do eat well, we don't eat a disproportionate amount of meat, same as our ancestors, but a lot of the recommended foods ARE expensive and for the two of us, you either pay more for a small quantity or buy cheap and allow for wastage.

I have a number of friends who are quite preachy about nutrition, obscure foods and doing your bit for spaceship earth. They're all employed in public sector arts and education and earning £30,000 plus.

I might be able to join them when the memsahib has her PhD! 

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

We do eat well, we don't eat a disproportionate amount of meat, same as our ancestors, but a lot of the recommended foods ARE expensive and for the two of us, you either pay more for a small quantity or buy cheap and allow for wastage.

 

The economic conclusion is to join a vegetarian commune, where you would enjoy the benefits of scale and only have to do the washing-up once a week.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Compound2632

[Andy Hayter]

2 hours ago, Regularity said:

Except when it is full of nasty chemicals.

 

 

I thought I made that clear with my pizza example.  

[rocor]

25 minutes ago, alastairq said:

 HAs anybody priced up the various veggy-based products currently being advertised on TV?

 

Pulses do take a deal of preparation.  Big bags of spices, etc are also costly enough, when one factors in the expense of travelling to these outlets, parking, etc?  For one person they also don't make sense from a  storage viewpoint.

I now avoid tomatoes due to their acidity. Not that I don't 'like' them....

But, at the end of the day, there is an expense involved when 'stocking' one's kitchen cupboard.

 

What's all this veggy lookalike thing all about, then?

Why make a vegetable look like a piece of chicken?

 

 

There is also an attempt to make them taste like meat. This is vegetarianism for people who don't like vegetables. 

[Nearholmer]

42 minutes ago, alastairq said:

Big bags of spices, etc are also costly enough, when one factors in the expense of travelling to these outlets, parking, etc?

 

That may be one of the advantages of living in a fairly cosmopolitan place, in that "travelling" from here consists of a ten minute bike ride, and "parking" consists of locking the bike to a post.

 

This place seems to sell decent sized bags of spice at fairly sensible prices, exactly the same makes that Indian and Halal grocers sell, and posts them at no extra cost https://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/

 

We store them in old jam jars, and if kept tightly-lidded, in the dark, they last a long time without losing their pzazz. Definitely works out a lot better value than buying those daft little sachets or tiny jars from supermarkets.

 

As to "processed" vege stuff, I personally can't see the point. Some of it is just as over-processed as other 'fast' food. Plain Quorn is OK, if you like it, because that isn't really processed, its "brewed mould". Personally, I don't rate it much, because it lacks texture, but it is a good protein for people who are vegetarian, which we aren't.

 

If you delve into the cost of ingredients, the things that it is most difficult to buy cheap is protein, but good value sources are beans, peanut butter, eggs, and tinned fish, and you actually don't need masses of protein anyway, maybe 60g each day. If you eat more of it than that, it goes in one end and out the other.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Nearholmer

[MrWolf]

23 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The economic conclusion is to join a vegetarian commune, where you would enjoy the benefits of scale and only have to do the washing-up once a week.

 

That reminds me of art college... 

Where there was one. They had a tendency to lecture about your shoes, motorcycle jacket and the fact that you had a car.

It never stopped them asking for lifts when they'd drunk their taxi money though.

Neither of us really do groups, it's mostly to do with not liking agendas and with both of us suffering CPTSD, not being able to trust too many people.

[MrWolf]

14 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

That may be one of the advantages of living in a fairly cosmopolitan place, in that "travelling" from here consists of a ten minute bike ride, and "parking" consists of locking the bike to a post.

 

This place seems to sell decent sized bags of spice at fairly sensible prices, exactly the same makes that Indian and Halal grocers sell, and posts them at no extra cost https://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/

 

We store them in old jam jars, and if kept tightly-lidded, in the dark, they last a long time without losing their pzazz. Definitely works out a lot better value than buying those daft little sachets or tiny jars from supermarkets.

 

As to "processed" vege stuff, I personally can't see the point. Some of it is just as over-processed as other 'fast' food. Plain Quorn is OK, if you like it, because that isn't really processed, its "brewed mould". Personally, I don't rate it much, because it lacks texture, but it is a good protein for people who are vegetarian, which we aren't.

 

 

 

Quite agree. Have you been round here before?

We do quite well, given health issues on a mixture of traditional English and Indian fare.

Another reason for not doing takeaways is we try to avoid anything halal on moral grounds.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by MrWolf

[MrWolf]

27 minutes ago, rocor said:

 

There is also an attempt to make them taste like meat. This is vegetarianism for people who don't like vegetables. 

 

I remember one place I lived in, going to the corner shop in search of onions. The shop keeper said that the only vegetables he'd ever been able to sell were potatoes. Even then, they went off, so he gave up.

But, he said, being Indian, I eat properly. He went and fetched a bag of onions from his own kitchen and wouldn't take a penny.

[Regularity]

1 hour ago, alastairq said:

 

No more nasty chemicals than in  any of the pre-packed, pre-ordained, meals or foods we see being hungrily snapped up  off every supermarkets' cabinets every day?

Yeah, but I don’t eat them very often, either!