Proceedings of the Castle Aching Parish Council, 1905

[Edwardian]

RIP Christopher Plummer

 

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

Well just as an update from the antipodes (Victoria, Australia) we were just landed with a 5 day snap lockdown because some asthmatic in quarantine from returning from the UK dropped your version of the plague on us. He was using a nebuliser which in effect turned his hotel room into a vapour cloud of infection which got into the AC. Damn good thing we're use to lockdowns, however he may still be lynched. Nebulisers are on the banned list - he was offered other forms of treatment. Geez we'd been going well. 

[DonB]

Didn't know of a problem with Nebuliser use. Has this been discussed in UK ? No one in my family uses one as far as I know, but I do know a number of asthmatics from my working days.

[ian]

Meanwhile, on home soil, Monday sees the 50th anniversary of decimalisation.

 

Is anyone else feeling old all of a sudden?

[Hroth]

41 minutes ago, ian said:

Meanwhile, on home soil, Monday sees the 50th anniversary of decimalisation.

 

Is anyone else feeling old all of a sudden?

 

Oh lor!

 

 

I've still got the Decimalisation presentation folder, it definitely makes me feel old...

 

Of course, the 10p, two bob or florin was the first inkling of possible decimalisation, being introduced in 1849 as part of a Victorian initiative that failed to take hold.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florin_(British_coin)

The original, definitely pre-grouping!

 

 

[Hroth]

3 hours ago, DonB said:

Didn't know of a problem with Nebuliser use. Has this been discussed in UK ? No one in my family uses one as far as I know, but I do know a number of asthmatics from my working days.

 

Nebulisers are used by asthmatics who have episodes where attacks cannot be controlled just using conventional inhalers.

 

A nebuliser bubbles air through a solution containing (most commonly) Salbutamol. It delivers the drug over a period of time in a wet mist, giving more effective relief than doses from a metered inhaler.  The patient breathes the nebulised drug in through a non-sealing facemask and any excess (and exhaled air) can be seen being emitted from the sides of the mask.

 

The oxygen fed CPAP machines used to assist COVID patients work in a similar manner, though with a facemask that seals more tightly to the patients face.  However, the exhaled air has to go somewhere...

 

The nebuliser probably doesn't emit more viral particles than normal breathing, its just that its more visual.

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Hroth

[Nearholmer]

53 minutes ago, Hroth said:

The nebuliser probably doesn't emit more viral particles than normal breathing

 

Is the exhalation more bouyant and persistent than normal because it includes some of the intake-mist? And, is there a deliberate deep-breathing issue, digging exhalent from deep in the lungs?

 

The Aussie health authorities seem pretty worked-up about nebulisers, presumably for a reason.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Compound2632]

4 hours ago, Hroth said:

Of course, the 10p, two bob or florin was the first inkling of possible decimalisation, being introduced in 1849 as part of a Victorian initiative that failed to take hold.

 

The ten penny shilling was an obsession of Trollop's Planty Pall as Chancellor of the Exchequer.

 

There was at the same period (1850s) an attempt at currency union, with Great Britain, France, and Italy all issuing gold coins of the same weight. 

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

10 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

Is the exhalation more bouyant and persistent than normal because it includes some of the intake-mist? And, is there a deliberate deep-breathing issue, digging exhalent from deep in the lungs?

 

The Aussie health authorities seem pretty worked-up about nebulisers, presumably for a reason.

 

 

 

It basically turned his whole room into an airborne COVID cloud. This escaped when staff opened his door to deliver food. His family was in the room with him and they also caught it. The people who delivered the food got it as well - this new strain is super infectious.

[Annie]

So the Devil's child in the Kingdom of the Mad has got off free and clear, but we all knew that was going to happen.

 

 

(I feel so dirty I made a comment about American politics)

 

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Annie
Annoyed Cat Lady

[monkeysarefun]

Makes no sense, he's going to obviously start his own Maga party now and take a big chunk of Republican voters with him, why would they not convict him to stop him from running again and prevent this?

About the only thing I can think of is that they have been made aware that he has a stack of interesting video tapes courtesy of the  Russian secret service.

[Annie]

From what I read in the Washington Post the senate Republicans acknowledge that Trump incited the attack on the Capitol, but despite that they took the option to acquit  him.  That really doesn't make a lot of sense at all, but when has anything made any sense in the US over the past dozen or so months.

 

19 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

Makes no sense, he's going to obviously start his own Maga party now and take a big chunk of Republican voters with him, why would they not convict him to stop him from running again and prevent this?

Splitting up the Republican vote has to be a good thing,  but the risk is what the idiots who would join a Maga party will do, - or could be persuaded to do by Trump.

 

(Arrrrgggh I did it again, - I commented on American politics)

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

1 hour ago, Annie said:

From what I read in the Washington Post the senate Republicans acknowledge that Trump incited the attack on the Capitol, but despite that they took the option to acquit  him.  That really doesn't make a lot of sense at all, but when has anything made any sense in the US over the past dozen or so months.

 

Splitting up the Republican vote has to be a good thing,  but the risk is what the idiots who would join a Maga party will do, - or could be persuaded to do by Trump.

 

(Arrrrgggh I did it again, - I commented on American politics)

What is going to happen I think is that there will be two scenarios based on historical examples  -

 

1. In 1912 the sitting President Taft (Rep.) ran for re-election against Woodrow Wilson (Dem.). Theodore Roosevelt who had been Taft's predecessor as Rep. President decided to form a third party and ran against Taft and Wilson. He split the Rep. vote and Wilson got elected. 

 

2. In 1932 Hoover the incumbent President (Rep.) was defeated by Franklin Roosevelt* (Dem.). Hoover's defeat was because of his, and the Republican Party's lamentable record during the Great Depression and in the 1920s. They refused any sort of economic intervention. That led to a Democrat ascendency for 20 years. It lasted until 1952 when Eisenhower (Rep.) was elected President defeating Adlai Stevenson (Dem.). 

 

In the first scenario if Trump runs in 2024 he will have with him the thuggish MAGA and Proud Boy elements of the Republican base plus the idiot white Evangelicals. This is the ultra conservative lot. I suspect he'll form his own party while the Republicans will field a candidate who is not tainted by that impeachment farce. That will split the Republicans like in 1912. However the reality maybe that impending criminal suits launched in New York plus civil suits launched by the families of the people killed in that little insurrection incited by Trump will so damage the Trump name by then that he won't run. Either way the Democrats will win because after this episode the Republican Party has lost all credibility - except in that ultra right wing core group of Evangelicals, MAGA and Proud Boys.

 

In the second scenario (which I think more likely), Trump won't run in 2024 because the aforesaid law suits will have either rendered him ineligible, or simply unelectable. Plus Trump is not noted for long term persistency and his businesses are financially troubled. The Republicans will try to find a candidate not sullied by the Jan 6. insurrection. There are some, or it could be a state governor who has steered clear of the DC mess. While the Democrats probably led by Harris will win. Biden by then will really be too old. I think that such is the sour taste in the mouths of the majority of US voters that the Republicans will need years to rebuild their name. The acquittal was not a satisfactory response from the Republican Party.

 

20 years in the wilderness is unlikely but it will be some time. Bear in mind that the Republicans had a 12 year ascendency under Reagan (elected 1980) for two terms followed by George Bush Snr. Elected 1988) for one term. That ended in 1992.  

 

Just my thoughts, and I could be completely wrong ......

 

(I apologise  I'm a US politics junkie which is strange for an Australian I admit). 

 

* The two Roosevelts were actually distant cousins from different branches of the family. Which explains their political differences.

[Hroth]

6 hours ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

 

It basically turned his whole room into an airborne COVID cloud. This escaped when staff opened his door to deliver food. His family was in the room with him and they also caught it. The people who delivered the food got it as well - this new strain is super infectious.

 

I thought Australia was "hot" on people bringing things into the country, and that a nebuliser and associated drugs would have been picked up on entry.  If his asthma was so severe as to require a nebuliser, then the medical authorities might have kept a closer eye on the situation, given that he had entered the country with a nebuliser*. A difficult asthma attack should have been picked up, instead of leaving him gasping like a landed fish because he couldn't use his usual treatment.  And once an asthma attack has reached that stage, then hospitalisation is the only immediate response.

 

As for isolation, if he was infectious and his family were quarantined in the same room then they would have ended up being infected anyway, with or without the nebuliser.

 

* What I'm trying to say is that I'm surprised that he was allowed to keep the nebuliser!

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

10 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

I thought Australia was "hot" on people bringing things into the country, and that a nebuliser and associated drugs would have been picked up on entry.  If his asthma was so severe as to require a nebuliser, then the medical authorities might have kept a closer eye on the situation, given that he had entered the country with a nebuliser*. A difficult asthma attack should have been picked up, instead of leaving him gasping like a landed fish because he couldn't use his usual treatment.  And once an asthma attack has reached that stage, then hospitalisation is the only immediate response.

 

As for isolation, if he was infectious and his family were quarantined in the same room then they would have ended up being infected anyway, with or without the nebuliser.

 

* What I'm trying to say is that I'm surprised that he was allowed to keep the nebuliser!

 

 

We are - there is some dispute at the moment re the nebuliser. He is claiming that he was given permission, the state Health Dept. is denying that. He was offered other medication according to the Health Department.

 

Either way or not, there are a great many people (millions) pissed off by this episode. We had more less got the plague down for the count and then that is destroyed by this. His ID is confidential however there are cries in the media for his identity to be released that's how upset some are. I can't say I blame them in a way - we had basically from mid June to mid November in 2020 in lockdown and the economic damage is huge. Considering that lockdown was caused by idiot security guards who didn't have the brains to even follow basic rules.

 

Hopefully this coming Wednesday will see the end of it. Today I see that the number of confirmed cases is 14, just from this one person.  

[Annie]

I've just had a Civil Defense message come through on my new smartphone to tell me that here in the Waikato we're going up one alert level and in Auckland City they are going up two.  A airport worker and their family in Auckland have just tested positive for COVID-19 so NZ's well oiled response to a community outbreak has just rolled out.   So far all outbreaks have been traced back to the border but with the new highly contagious strains starting to show up in our quarantine facilities people here are getting worried.  Border staff and the medical staff at the quarantine facilities are worried as well as after a year of this they're pretty much exhausted and they know mistakes will happen.

 

I don't know if you get network wide Civil Defense cellphone messages in the Uk like we do here in NZ, but I'm a big fan of it.  My phone started up all by itself and a very clear audible message which can't be turned off until it's finished was transmitted.  I know not everyone is going to have a modern cellphone or a cellphone at all, but as of right now a good percentage of the population know whats happening.

[Northroader]

The phone would never stop ringing, Annie.

[DonB]

Being a Ludite and too tight to splash out, I don't have a smart phone, and my cell phone is about 15 years old and lives in the car for emergencies. Total outlay on mobile phone for last three years £20 in top up costs.

[Hando]

1 hour ago, Annie said:

I've just had a Civil Defense message come through on my new smartphone to tell me that here in the Waikato we're going up one alert level and in Auckland City they are going up two.  A airport worker and their family in Auckland have just tested positive for COVID-19 so NZ's well oiled response to a community outbreak has just rolled out.   So far all outbreaks have been traced back to the border but with the new highly contagious strains starting to show up in our quarantine facilities people here are getting worried.  Border staff and the medical staff at the quarantine facilities are worried as well as after a year of this they're pretty much exhausted and they know mistakes will happen.

 

I don't know if you get network wide Civil Defense cellphone messages in the Uk like we do here in NZ, but I'm a big fan of it.  My phone started up all by itself and a very clear audible message which can't be turned off until it's finished was transmitted.  I know not everyone is going to have a modern cellphone or a cellphone at all, but as of right now a good percentage of the population know whats happening.

The British Civil Defence Corps got disbanded as early as 1968. However, the Republic of Ireland and the Isle of Man still have their own Civil Defence organisations.

 

Unfortunately we don't have the phone alert system like you do in NZ, but it would be great if we did.

[CKPR]

1 hour ago, Annie said:

I don't know if you get network wide Civil Defense cellphone messages in the Uk like we do here in NZ

Heaven forbid there was a nuclear strike on the UK, the government emergency plan would be announced about week later and the initial response would be timed to begin in three weeks time when the contracts for dealing with initial firestorms and nuclear fall-out had been awarded to a hedge fund based in the Cayman Islands and an interior design company owned by someone who went to Oxford with the vice-chair of the Tory party. Following this, £100 billion would be allocated to an early warning system and world beating programme of blast-proof shelters to be built by 2034.

[rocor]

2 hours ago, Annie said:

I've just had a Civil Defense message come through on my new smartphone to tell me that here in the Waikato we're going up one alert level and in Auckland City they are going up two.  A airport worker and their family in Auckland have just tested positive for COVID-19 so NZ's well oiled response to a community outbreak has just rolled out.   So far all outbreaks have been traced back to the border but with the new highly contagious strains starting to show up in our quarantine facilities people here are getting worried.  Border staff and the medical staff at the quarantine facilities are worried as well as after a year of this they're pretty much exhausted and they know mistakes will happen.

 

I don't know if you get network wide Civil Defense cellphone messages in the Uk like we do here in NZ, but I'm a big fan of it.  My phone started up all by itself and a very clear audible message which can't be turned off until it's finished was transmitted.  I know not everyone is going to have a modern cellphone or a cellphone at all, but as of right now a good percentage of the population know whats happening.

 

The borders (airports and docks?), unless totally closed (impossible as they are required to be open for essential imports and nationals returning home), are always going to be the weak point in preventing the ingress of the virus. How extreme can the counter measures be taken?. Airports and Docks turned into biohazard level 4 facilities?. Workers required to wear ventilated pressurised suits their entire shifts?.

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

We're on stage 4 until Wednesday midnight unless more community cases pop up. The tracing has narrowed possible contacts with infected people down to half a dozen public localities - fortunately none near me. Bloody nuisance.

[monkeysarefun]

We've had a couple of lucky breaks with the scary UK strain so far, hopefully Melbourne is another one.

 

There was that hotel worker in Perth who caught it in a quarantine hotel - they still haven't found out how yet, since he had no contact with any positive guests. He was loose in the community travelling around and socialising for 6 days or something before he was diagnosed. Queue mass panic and a 5 day lockdown of most of the  populated bits of WA,  but not a single new case popped up, not in the 1200 or so identified close and casual contacts, not even his 3 housemates who had daily contact with him..

 

Similar in Brisbane, hotel worker gets infected, does socialising stuff in the week or so before being  diagnosed, lockdown of Brisbane,  only her partner catches it.

 

Australians -  maybe we actually are too slow to catch a cold.

 

Or covid in this case..

 

 

[Andy Hayter]

Regarding the Republicans and Donald, there is another scenario in that given that he is no spring chicken and has a life style that is tending towards a shorter rather than linger life span, the Republicans may well be hoping that he will be physically unable to run the race in 2024. 

 

 

 

[Regularity]

1 hour ago, CKPR said:

Heaven forbid there was a nuclear strike on the UK, the government emergency plan would be announced about week later and the initial response would be timed to begin in three weeks time when the contracts for dealing with initial firestorms and nuclear fall-out had been awarded to a hedge fund based in the Cayman Islands and an interior design company owned by someone who went to Oxford with the vice-chair of the Tory party. Following this, £100 billion would be allocated to an early warning system and world beating programme of blast-proof shelters to be built by 2034.

I find that post to be absurdly optimistic.