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3 hours ago, cctransuk said:

In common with many other members, I am disinclined to pay a subscription for a forum that was acquired for commercial reasons.


The alternative being the forum would have folded!

 

Andy Y is entitled to a home life and RMweb was so successful it was beginning to become a significant burden and IIRC negatively affect his own work life balance. Going commercial eased the situation as the resources it unlocked enabled people to reclaim their home lives again.

 

NOTHING is free in life - and the more successful an venture is the more it costs to run. If you don’t like it go and set up your own forum and see how you like continual moans because you are not there 24/7 to fix it when it goes wrong.

 

Thats not to say certain things cannot be improved but it’s a fact that advertising which cannot be blocked is increasingly essential for ‘free’ websites to function. 

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20 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Simple - I like to discuss model railway related matters with like-minded individuals. I wouldn't pay a subscription to join a club to do this,

Clubs generally expect members to pay, so I assume you won't be joining one so won't get your discussion.

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9 hours ago, lyneux said:

Just had ads for the second time today on the same machine... is it tied to the server-side session?

 

If so, you will get ads again when the session expires.

 

Guy


Or is is something to do with cookies - many browsers are now starting to delete them whenever a new season is opened and quite logically If the server cannot see a cookie from the previous session then it will assume the 2nd season is actually the first.

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33 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Simple - I like to discuss model railway related matters with like-minded individuals. I wouldn't pay a subscription to join a club to do this, and if RMweb became subscription-only, I would rescind my membership.

 

If a model railway forum was run by a person with no commercial interest in the subject, I might well contribute to the running costs.

 

BRM did not acquire RMweb for altruistic motives - it saw commercial possibilities and made a commercial decision to become involved.

 

Fine - but now that they find that they have made a rather expensive acquisition, I do not feel under any obligation to subsidise them.

 

CJI.

I think that's a very bad attitude which strikes me as wanting something for nothing.  As many others have said, I'm not interested in most of the other stuff that comes with RMweb Gold and therefore haven't signed up but I would me quite happy to pay an annual subscription to access the core RMweb.  It is a huge resource and source of advice and inspiration (and frustration at looking at superb modelling I can't dream of matching!) and therefore why wouldn't you be prepared to make some support?

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22 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

Fine - but now that they find that they have made a rather expensive acquisition, I do not feel under any obligation to subsidise them.

You’re not being asked to ;)  the adverts are necessary, it’s a business as you note. 
 

To say there’s no altruism involved when it could be subs only is slightly off, the ads pay for those of us using the vast resource for free because it does cost to host all those pictures. If the concept of how the forum now works is so distasteful where are the ad free options of a similar scale?

It’s a compromise BRM gets the breadth of content they wouldn’t get from a closed subs forum and we get the same resource for the inconvenience of a few clicks to remove ads. 
When we noted the regular pop ups Steve could have said “sorry but that’s how it works”, instead he’s asked for examples by pm and replied fast and politely to say thanks for providing the info I’ll try to minimise it. 

You don’t want to join a club and you want all this to be ad free? I know you generously gave away transfers recently but you didn’t build your business on freebies because your time costs. BRM threw a lifeline to the forum when things were uncertain and Andy was looking at having to spend all his time looking for a job, aren’t you a little bit grateful for that?  

Compared to being forced to watch up to 2min of adverts on any monetised YouTube video or regular 3min ad slots on most catch-up tv channels it’s pretty easy to click close ;) 


If not do like a mate and I did and start a forum for our little niche of Swiss Railways. We did it free for members because he pays for all the hosting but we can’t afford to host anything but tiny images so are left at the mercy of hosting sites and their ever increasing prices. 

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  • RMweb Gold

There would be no problem with advertisements if that's what they were -- pictures and words which I can look at or ignore as I choose, just like the advertising in the printed copy of BRM.

 

But they are not. They install trackers and other tricks on MY computer without asking, to track my browsing activity and harvest information about my interests.

 

But it's easy to avoid them -- use Firefox as your browser and setting tracking protection to Strict. Hey presto, no adverts on RMweb. If RMweb loses out as a result, bad luck, it shouldn't have been up to such underhand tricks with MY computer in the first place.

 

Martin.

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The term "alienate" was used earlier. Possibly a rather strong term, but it would be nice to know in advance if & when things like this are going to be done.

If there was an anouncement banner pinned to the top of the board along the lines of " Expect full size pop-up ads from such-&-such a date" at least we'd be aware of it, instead of having to look for a Thread after the event and after wondering what's going on. 

Just a suggestion for next time. :scratchhead:

 

I'm sure there will be a next time.... :rolleyes:;)

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52 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

If there was an anouncement banner pinned to the top of the board along the lines of " Expect full size pop-up ads from such-&-such a date" at least we'd be aware of it, instead of having to look for a Thread after the event and after wondering what's going on. 

 

I agree and it's something I do when planned maintenance or updates will be taking place as I know when that will be done. I also place notes when I know that performance is being impacted.

 

The ad-serving systems sit outside the community software and are not within my control.

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The other issue which seems to negate the reason for them being there is that most of the ads are of no relevance to the audience and are simply closed. The advertisers surely make no money on those at all. So why bother?

 

Paul

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11 hours ago, cctransuk said:

Simple - I like to discuss model railway related matters with like-minded individuals. I wouldn't pay a subscription to join a club to do this, and if RMweb became subscription-only, I would rescind my membership.

 

So you want to use all the facilities, but someone else is expected to pay for the costs of providing them? I'm guessing that when you want to chat to your mates, you go to the pub, sit in the corner and refuse to buy a drink whilst using their heat, light and toilets.

 

11 hours ago, cctransuk said:

If a model railway forum was run by a person with no commercial interest in the subject, I might well contribute to the running costs.

 

"Might" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Basically, someone has to give their lives, and income over to you so you can use them for your own purposes. And you "might" drop a few pennies in the pot towards this?

 

Andy York runs forum - maybe a few coppers.

Andy York Ltd runs forum - evil commercial body, no money for him!

 

11 hours ago, cctransuk said:

BRM did not acquire RMweb for altruistic motives - it saw commercial possibilities and made a commercial decision to become involved.

 

Fine - but now that they find that they have made a rather expensive acquisition, I do not feel under any obligation to subsidise them.

 

Business does something businesslike - what a shock. However, if you want to make a lot of money, you don't set up a business in model railways, unless you know better.

And if someone doesn't contribute to running the forum in some way, it will close. And then you can go to those great altruists, Facebook.

 

 

If you would like to rescind your membership, Facebook is waiting for you and as Andy is on holiday this week (even though he has been looking at this) I will be perfectly happy to delete your account if that is what you want.

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Noticed the absence of the pop up ad obscuring all else last night and this morning, perhaps the nature of it hiding all other adverts, as well as forum content is being looked at ?

The suggestion about an 'advisory' notice when a new format of Advert is going to be introduced is certainly worth consideration by those who do control such things. 

That would save the likes of me wondering if it was something wrong with  my laptop etc.

 

Regards,

 

                 John

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1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

So you want to use all the facilities, but someone else is expected to pay for the costs of providing them? I'm guessing that when you want to chat to your mates, you go to the pub, sit in the corner and refuse to buy a drink whilst using their heat, light and toilets.

 

 

"Might" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Basically, someone has to give their lives, and income over to you so you can use them for your own purposes. And you "might" drop a few pennies in the pot towards this?

 

Andy York runs forum - maybe a few coppers.

Andy York Ltd runs forum - evil commercial body, no money for him!

 

 

Business does something businesslike - what a shock. However, if you want to make a lot of money, you don't set up a business in model railways, unless you know better.

And if someone doesn't contribute to running the forum in some way, it will close. And then you can go to those great altruists, Facebook.

 

 

If you would like to rescind your membership, Facebook is waiting for you and as Andy is on holiday this week (even though he has been looking at this) I will be perfectly happy to delete your account if that is what you want.

 

Nothing more than I anticipated.

 

BRM acquired RMweb - a non-subscription, non-advertising forum for commercial reasons; to raise the profile of BRM. Of course, such an acquisition would come with recurring costs over and above the deal reached with the former forum owner.

 

In order to offset these recurring costs, BRM introduced more and more adverts and a premium subscription service.

 

I do not believe that any of the above is other than a true reflection of fact.

 

A further fact is that some forum members object to the introduction of the latest tranche of intrusive advertisements, which are also displayed contrary to the conditions stated by the person responsible for their introduction.

 

I do not feel that, in the light of the above, it is unreasonable to express some dissatisfaction.

 

..... and no, I do not wish to rescind my forum membership; I clearly set down the condition under which I might do so.

 

John Isherwood.

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17 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

BRM acquired RMweb - a non-subscription, non-advertising forum for commercial reasons; to raise the profile of BRM. Of course, such an acquisition would come with recurring costs over and above the deal reached with the former forum owner.

 

In order to offset these recurring costs, BRM introduced more and more adverts and a premium subscription service.

 

I do not believe that any of the above is other than a true reflection of fact.

 

I believe the moon is made of cheese, that doesn't make it a fact.

 

Fundamentally, RMweb costs money to run. Server costs, bandwidth, staff to deal with outbursts from some of the members, it all costs money and that money has got to come from somewhere. You believe it should be run and paid for, by Andy. Well, Warners bought the forum when it was that or RMweb closing. It was undoubtedly a business decision, and like any business, they need to at least have it paying its way. I know a lot of people think BRM should fund it, but those same people often boast they don't buy BRM.

 

As an aside, if the aim was to raise the profile of BRM, why isn't the brand plastered all over the forum? Why is is not called "BRMweb"?

 

Anyway, the premium service and adverts are the way that the costs are largely met. Sorry if it offends you, but that's real life.

 

23 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

A further fact is that some forum members object to the introduction of the latest tranche of intrusive advertisements, which are also displayed contrary to the conditions stated by the person responsible for their introduction.

 

I do not feel that, in the light of the above, it is unreasonable to express some dissatisfaction.

 

Several members have taken the time to provide screen shots and information that can be fed back to the people implementing the adverts to solve problems. That's helpful as Steve says - and I've not seen a pop-up today, so assume some work in that direction has taken place. Their efforts are really appreciated.  You just rant every time any advert changes on the forum and fling grief around. This isn't the first time we've had this "discussion".

 

RMweb is free to use, and I'm not aware of any plans to change this in the future. Adverts are a fact of life. In this case, there has been an issue and it's being worked on.

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12 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

There would be no problem with advertisements if that's what they were -- pictures and words which I can look at or ignore as I choose, just like the advertising in the printed copy of BRM.

 

But they are not. They install trackers and other tricks on MY computer without asking, to track my browsing activity and harvest information about my interests.

 

But it's easy to avoid them -- use Firefox as your browser and setting tracking protection to Strict. Hey presto, no adverts on RMweb. If RMweb loses out as a result, bad luck, it shouldn't have been up to such underhand tricks with MY computer in the first place.

 

Martin.


You don’t get it do you.

 

I repeat advertisers are not going to be wasting cash on things that people won’t see because the have add blockers or trackers disabled.

 

That in turn means generalised and easily avoidable adverts don’t generate anything like the same revenues for website owners as they did just a few years ago.

 

However the owners of servers and those working for websites have unsurprisingly  not turned round and accepted lower payments. Thus websites are forced to embrace more intrusive advertising to retain the same standard of content.

 

 

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2 hours ago, SteveCole said:

A cheaper RMweb Gold-type membership.

Steve, as I've said before if there was a version of Gold linked to print subscriptions rather than digital I might be tempted.

 

Thanks.

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1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

You don’t get it do you.

 

I repeat advertisers are not going to be wasting cash on things that people won’t see because the have add blockers or trackers disabled.

 

I get it just fine. That's why I pay a subscription to the Gold/World of Railways thingy. I don't know exactly what it is, but I know the money goes to Warners.

 

But I'm NOT going to have advertisers placing trackers on my computer if I can avoid it. Adverts on the screen, fine. Tracking no. Full stop.

 

I'm not the only one who feels that way, otherwise Firefox wouldn't make it one simple click to block trackers in their browser. And note that I'm not blocking the advert, just the tracker. If advertisers want me to see their advert, they know what to do. Remove the tracker.

 

Martin.

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3 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Not had any full size pop-up ads today, yet. :good:

Until a hour ago, neither had I but since then I have had the full sized advert pop up twice. 

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1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

I believe the moon is made of cheese, that doesn't make it a fact.

 

Fundamentally, RMweb costs money to run. Server costs, bandwidth, staff to deal with outbursts from some of the members, it all costs money and that money has got to come from somewhere. You believe it should be run and paid for, by Andy. Well, Warners bought the forum when it was that or RMweb closing. It was undoubtedly a business decision, and like any business, they need to at least have it paying its way. I know a lot of people think BRM should fund it, but those same people often boast they don't buy BRM.

 

As an aside, if the aim was to raise the profile of BRM, why isn't the brand plastered all over the forum? Why is is not called "BRMweb"?

 

Anyway, the premium service and adverts are the way that the costs are largely met. Sorry if it offends you, but that's real life.

 

 

Several members have taken the time to provide screen shots and information that can be fed back to the people implementing the adverts to solve problems. That's helpful as Steve says - and I've not seen a pop-up today, so assume some work in that direction has taken place. Their efforts are really appreciated.  You just rant every time any advert changes on the forum and fling grief around. This isn't the first time we've had this "discussion".

 

RMweb is free to use, and I'm not aware of any plans to change this in the future. Adverts are a fact of life. In this case, there has been an issue and it's being worked on.

 

I shall not pursue the matter further - either at this time or in future; it's a waste of my time.

 

Suffice to say that, as I use Firefox, I have adjusted the setting to block trackers - which should also block the advertisements.

 

CJI.

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11 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

it's a waste of my time.

 

Quite happy to waste ours though by posting things that it's necessary for one or other of us to address to ensure others have balance to your opinion.

 

Anyway, end of - I'll remove your access to the topic so you don't waste any of your valuable time.

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4 hours ago, SteveCole said:

A cheaper RMweb Gold-type membership. This is something that Andy has been pushing for for quite sometime and I completely agree that it is needed.

 

Probably harder to implement, but could a pick and choose options could be available? e.g:

Silver membership - one magazine & ad-free use of RMWeb

Bronze membership - no magazines, just ad-free use of RMWeb

Or as an additional option for a few quid per year for those wanting a printed magazine subscription.

 

Steven B.

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35 minutes ago, Steven B said:

Bronze membership - no magazines, just ad-free use of RMWeb

 

No. Free bronze membership includes virtual Andy or Phil appearing at the bottom of your bed at 6am, loudly reading all the previous nights postings to you. For a large amount of money, you can upgrade to Bronze+ which give you access to an off switch. :dirol_mini:

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