Bodiam Station on the Kent and East Sussex Railway

[Hal Nail]

13 hours ago, FulhamTim said:

I was conscious that we spend hours checking where each rivet should be but do we spend as much time researching the permanent way?

I would argue yes! Theres a whole section of the forum on track and most of the layout builds I read discuss the merits of handbuilt track, point rodding and prototypical safety features etc.

[FulhamTim]

3 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

I would argue yes! Theres a whole section of the forum on track and most of the layout builds I read discuss the merits of handbuilt track, point rodding and prototypical safety features etc.

Absolutely agree about point rodding etc, but the bit it all sits on (ballast) seems to be a bit forgotten.  Happy to be wrong, but spent ages on line and there seems to be very little information about how the track bed is made.  I was surprised how small the diameter of the ballast is in real life.  In reality you could hold quite a lot in your hand so on that basis the ballast must be quite fine at scale dimensions.  In reality it doesn't really matter.

[FulhamTim]

I have started to lay the track.  I have printed off the specific Templot templates for this board.  I have laid the track using the C&L Finescale parts (3 bolt chairs and 8 feet 6 inch timbers) with the chair keys alternated in direction on the basis that the track operates in both directions.  It is 60 feet lengths as the line was re-laid around 1948 (with track recovered from the Elham Valley Railway) so I am assuming standard BR practice.

 

 

Track laid on Templot template

 

 

Track ballast detail (station area).

 

I was not sure whether it was ballast or ash (apparently this was used until the demise of steam and the loss of this source of material)  Checking various sites ballast was around 2” in diameter (paragraph 4 and 5 of "Rail_ballast_technical_data.pdf") so is a scale 1.2mm.  Interestingly this dimension seems to be the one used for 4mm rather than 7mm.    Woodland Scenics Medium ballast is graded to 1.6” to 2.4” and Fine is 0.5” to 1.6”. The deatils are in the Woodland scenics Table. I could not find the Woodland Scenics Fine ballast easily in any decent quantities so I purchased some War World Scenics Extra Fine ballast.   I compared this to the Woodland Scenics Medium ballast and it is finer so I am using this as the basis for the ballast.  I have laid the ballast using dilute PVA applied with a dropper pre sprayed with water and washing up liquid to break the surface tension and allow the PVA to flow. 

 

When I get to the station/sidings I will user finer ballast material that is available from War World Gaming.  This site has a wide range of materials that I could be useful.

 

As you can see I have also started on the landscape.  

 

 

SculptaMold laid over the foam base.

 

I have used Sculptamold over the foam base.  It is a strange mix of fibres and plaster.  I have washed over this with Acrylic Burnt Umber and then with Vallejo Model Color Earth Textures - Dark Earth and Earth Texture Sand.  That provides the base before I tidy up the ballasting, apply flock, paint the track, add the fencing telegraph poles etc etc. 

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by FulhamTim
spelling; missing links

[FulhamTim]

I thought that today I would align the first two baseboards ready to start work on Baseboard 2's landscape.

Irritatingly the ends of the board don't form a tight join (obviously I messed up when I made them).  I am not too worried as Board 1 was always intended to try out materials and techniques and was actually just to add some length and perspective for the layout.  I don't have space to build all the baseboards in one go so I have prepared the end of baseboard 3, so I can cut the profile and it will then be an exact match.  I can build the rest of baseboard 3's structure when I have space and because of the ladder construction and as it is quality ply it will retain the correct shape (the room that I had been allocated at home is now being used by my wife while she works from home during the Covid lockdown)

 

 

@Dmudriver thread has given me an idea.  The "allocated" room at home has a small escape door between it and my son's bedroom.  He is away so I am going to see if I can set up the boards so they go between the two rooms.  It would mean the baseboards would sit on the floor (or very short legs) in his room.  I may get away with this after COVID lockdown because my wife does not go up into the loft extension.

Edited November 7, 2020 by FulhamTim
grammer

[FulhamTim]

I have finally found a use for the weight my son bought about 15 years ago.   It has made gluing the foam down much easier on board 2.  

 

 

On a serious note I need to work out how to align the track ends between the boards.

 

My idea is to cut a small piece of steel, drill a countersink slot in the top and slide a countersink bolt through.  Weld a washer onto the bolt underneath the metal.  This will lock the bolt in place but allow it to rotate and slide.  

 

Then drill a hole through the baseboard and fit T nuts above and below the hole with the bolt through.  This will then allow the bolt to move up and down, and the metal plate to move left to right. I can then glue the last three sleepers to the metal plate.

 

[FulhamTim]

Making slow progress. Board 1 and 2 joined together (the track in the distance gives an idea of the perspective I am after).  Once the SculptaMold has dried - it takes a few days I can start the painting.  I also have to fit the track alignment plates at each end of the 2nd board; stick down the templot template for the next length of track.   

 

 

This is what I am aiming for (but from the other end of the baseboards).

 

 

I realised today that I have got further today than any other time before.  My wife bought me a Badger air brush and compressor for a Christmas present.  I took it out of the cardboard box today to start painting the track etc.  The compressor was wrapped in newspaper to protect it - frightening on two levels:  1) it was the Daily Mail ; 2) it was dated 25 November 1991.  

 

 

 

Obviously the spray kit was purchased for Christmas 1991 and never used!!!  After twenty nine years plugged it in; added paint to the pot and it sprayed "perfectly" - well that will be for you all to decide when I post some close up pictures  - but as you can see above no splatter and a nice even coating (Vallejo acrylic grey primer).

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by FulhamTim
Extra unneeded picture

[whart57]

Well I've clicked the "follow this topic" button.

 

I based a 3mm scale layout on the track plan of Bodiam. Never finished it but handed it on to another 3mm Society member who did exhibit it under the name of "Wimblehurst Road". As a result though the 3mm Society had an etched brass kit of Bodiam station to go with the Ford railbus kit Worsley Works produced. As you can see:

 

[Richard Thomas]

On 06/11/2020 at 18:29, FulhamTim said:

I have started to lay the track.  I have printed off the specific Templot templates for this board.  I have laid the track using the C&L Finescale parts (3 bolt chairs and 8 feet 6 inch timbers) with the chair keys alternated in direction on the basis that the track operates in both directions.  It is 60 feet lengths as the line was re-laid around 1948 (with track recovered from the Elham Valley Railway) so I am assuming standard BR practice.

 

 

Track laid on Templot template

 

 

Track ballast detail (station area).

 

I was not sure whether it was ballast or ash (apparently this was used until the demise of steam and the loss of this source of material)  Checking various sites ballast was around 2” in diameter (paragraph 4 and 5 of "Rail_ballast_technical_data.pdf") so is a scale 1.2mm.  Interestingly this dimension seems to be the one used for 4mm rather than 7mm.    Woodland Scenics Medium ballast is graded to 1.6” to 2.4” and Fine is 0.5” to 1.6”. The deatils are in the Woodland scenics Table. I could not find the Woodland Scenics Fine ballast easily in any decent quantities so I purchased some War World Scenics Extra Fine ballast.   I compared this to the Woodland Scenics Medium ballast and it is finer so I am using this as the basis for the ballast.  I have laid the ballast using dilute PVA applied with a dropper pre sprayed with water and washing up liquid to break the surface tension and allow the PVA to flow. 

 

When I get to the station/sidings I will user finer ballast material that is available from War World Gaming.  This site has a wide range of materials that I could be useful.

 

As you can see I have also started on the landscape.  

 

 

SculptaMold laid over the foam base.

 

I have used Sculptamold over the foam base.  It is a strange mix of fibres and plaster.  I have washed over this with Acrylic Burnt Umber and then with Vallejo Model Color Earth Textures - Dark Earth and Earth Texture Sand.  That provides the base before I tidy up the ballasting, apply flock, paint the track, add the fencing telegraph poles etc etc. 

 

 

[Richard Thomas]

During the early/mid 60's I spent some time helping at the KESR on infrastructure clearance and maintenance and am sure that the yards at Northiam and Bodium were laid with lightweight (probably original) FB rail.  Bodium is such a lovely prototype to model and I shall certainly be following your progress with interest.

[FulhamTim]

39 minutes ago, Richard Thomas said:

During the early/mid 60's I spent some time helping at the KESR on infrastructure clearance and maintenance and am sure that the yards at Northiam and Bodium were laid with lightweight (probably original) FB rail.  Bodium is such a lovely prototype to model and I shall certainly be following your progress with interest.

 

@Richard Thomas thank you.  I will make sure I check.  There are some 1975 pictures which show 3 bolt chairs both for the main line and sidings at Bodiam but I suspect they may not be original as the track layout changed with preservation.  The biggest change was to move the coal yard siding slip toward Tenterden so it sat on the road crossing instead of about 8 feet from the road.  I am hoping to get to the Museum at Tenterden and see what information they have.  At the moment it is all internet and Odd books I have been able to buy which is not ideal.  I am hoping to get to my parents at some point (we are being v careful about infection) and see what pictures my father has as he was always snapping away on cycle rides and I cannot imagine he would not have some of Bodiam in the 1950s

[FulhamTim]

@Richard Thomasdug out an early photograph that shows a small part of the coal siding (I have a copy without the wording but copyright agreement precludes me using it).  

 

 

I am certain the picture is pre closure as it has a full sidings and the station itself is well maintained.  Certainly photographs that I can date that are close to and post closure show a station very rundown and overgrown.

 

Zooming into the bottom corner

 

 

It looks as if there is 3 bolt chairs for the first part and then I assume it is flat bottomed rail fixed directly to the sleepers.  The points at the end of the station are definitely fixed to the sleepers with three bolt chairs (all the photographs I have are the same) so I assume they ran a length of bulhead rail from the points and finished the siding with flat bottomed.   The sidings at the back of the station are not clear as the rails are covered, although I am tempted to think that this is not fixed with chairs.

 

 

I have a feeling this project is going to get very complicated 

 

 

[bécasse]

The first photo is pre-WWII.

 

[pwr]

14 hours ago, FulhamTim said:

 

@Richard Thomas thank you.  I will make sure I check.  There are some 1975 pictures which show 3 bolt chairs both for the main line and sidings at Bodiam but I suspect they may not be original as the track layout changed with preservation.  The biggest change was to move the coal yard siding slip toward Tenterden so it sat on the road crossing instead of about 8 feet from the road.  I am hoping to get to the Museum at Tenterden and see what information they have.  At the moment it is all internet and Odd books I have been able to buy which is not ideal.  I am hoping to get to my parents at some point (we are being v careful about infection) and see what pictures my father has as he was always snapping away on cycle rides and I cannot imagine he would not have some of Bodiam in the 1950s

 

 

Have you got the Wild Swan history of the line by Brian hart?

[FulhamTim]

2 hours ago, pwr said:

 

 

Have you got the Wild Swan history of the line by Brian hart?

Thanks to @bécassefor the date.  That would fit as subsequently the siding became a coal drop.  

 

I have Brian Hart's book, although oddly I cannot find it today when I looked.  I also have Mitchell and Smith's Branch Line to Tenterden.   That has a better photograph of the siding.  It appears to have been taken at a similar time to the one above as the pump trolley is still sitting in the siding, although there is a pile of different "stuff" waiting on the platform.  This is much clearer and shows all the sidings as flat-bottomed, and confirms this siding was flat bottomed rail just after the middle of the platform.  

 

I have cropped another image to just show the sidings at the rear of the platform.  This was taken in 1958, my time period.  They are no obvious 3 bolt chairs.

 

 

 

 

This has been really helpful because my initial thought was that when they relaid the track (apparently twice).  Once in 1939 (Kidner - Standard Gauge Light Railways - 1965 Edition) and again in 1949 post Nationalisation (with track from the Elham Valley Railway - Wikepedia)  they would have relaid the sidings - obviously they continued their penny pinching by just doing the mainline.

 

I have plenty of time to sort out the finer details as I won't get to building the next two baseboards that have the road and first part of the station until after Christmas now - my wife is kindly making are I don't become bored in my retirement so modelling is restricted to about an hour a day at the moment.

[pwr]

It wouldn't be unusual to simply replace the 'main line and leave the sidings. Does that man you will have to make your own track for the sidings. Soldered rail to copper clad is relatively easy - I think Marcway sell in by the yard. I used some in my level crossing and for the inset track in my yard although in this case I used two together to have a full check rail in which the concrete sits.

 

Unfortunately I couldn't find my gauge when I laid the yard and in places its tight. Some wagons will not run to the end of the siding and its too late to do anything about it without ripping up what's down. I guess I will get used to what I can shunt there and what not!

 

Paul R

[FulhamTim]

8 minutes ago, pwr said:

It wouldn't be unusual to simply replace the 'main line and leave the sidings. Does that man you will have to make your own track for the sidings. Soldered rail to copper clad is relatively easy - I think Marcway sell in by the yard. I used some in my level crossing and for the inset track in my yard although in this case I used two together to have a full check rail in which the concrete sits.

 

Unfortunately I couldn't find my gauge when I laid the yard and in places its tight. Some wagons will not run to the end of the siding and its too late to do anything about it without ripping up what's down. I guess I will get used to what I can shunt there and what not!

 

Paul R

 

Yes, homemade track - and the sidings make up almost 50% of the total!!  I will have to make up a test board to see what works best - perhaps an opportunity for a poll on here.  Oh, and a quick scan shows a variety of styles of fixings for flat bottomed rail so another area of research, although I am assuming (Assume make an ASS of U and ME) that the rails would just be spiked.

 

Marcway do Code124 flat bottomed - dare I assume that this is similar to C&L code 125 rail.  Unfortunately only a phone number (I hate talking to people and I will need to find a quiet time when the two female home workers are out and ring and check).

 

Copper clad and soldered sounds the most straightforward.  Although, perhaps I ought to make up spikes and fit them to plywood sleepers.   It might also be possible to glue rail straight to the C&L sleepers - something else to have a look at.  

[kitpw]

Peco do railspikes - https://peco-uk.com/products/rail-spikes.  I guess the trick if using ply sleepering and spikes is to pre drill the sleepers and make sure that the sub-base is relatively easy to spike into! As you say, copper clad and solder is probably the most straightforward but unless the sleepers are pretty much covered (ballast, ash etc) the gapping required for electrical isolation is not always acceptable, particularly when seen against sleepering without the gaps on the same layout.  I did make some (7mm narrow gauge) track years ago using ply sleepers with the rail soldered to flat headed brass pins for alignment and spikes to hold it more firmly in place.  Your suggestion of some test pieces to see what suits you best would be well worth while!

 

Kit PW

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blogs/blog/2502-swan-hill/

 

[FulhamTim]

@kitpw thank you about the spikes.  That really simplifies what I have to do cosmetically.

[FulhamTim]

 I have completed making the track end adjusters for baseboard 2.   I amended the design so that I sandwiched the countersunk bolt between two pieces of 3mm 2" flat steel, and then welded them together.  If this works then I will dig out the metal saw and cut the flat steel to length so it is square and make up the 8 sets that I will need.

 

 The final result in primer is shown below mocked up how they will look once installed as they are not accessible.

 

 

 

The middle bolt adjusts vertically, and the slot allows lateral movement.  The bolt has a slot cut to enable a screwdriver to adjust the screw from beneath the baseboard.  The other two bolts enable the plate to be tilted and also locks it in place.  I have used 6mm insert nuts in the baseboard:

 

 

The next stage is to install the plates and fit craftfoam so there is a base to attach the sleepers and ballast etc.  Then it is fit the template ready for the next length of track.

 

As you can see I have done the basics for the landscape on board two and the Templot template is ready to fit.  As I am using contact adhesive it can be a bit hit and miss placing the template.  This time I will spray the glue onto the craftfoam and the paper template and then use the cocktail sticks to accurately align the paper as I fit it.  I am hoping this will give a neat and strong join.  I intend to fix the sleepers to the template (using double sided tape and work on the basis that the ballast will keep everything in place) on the board and ballast before fitting the rail and chairs.  For board 1 I preprepared the track and fitted the whole length but it was difficult to get the sleepers aligned and to accurately place where it should go.

 

 

You can see the hole (at the end of the piece  track that has been fitted) is where the adjuster plate will go.

 

 

 

 

[Tricky]

I have very fond memories of Bodiam Station as we 'unearthed' it sometime early 80s before Anika Rice got hold of it. I was mid teens at the time and we had great fun thrashing through the brambles to uncover a bit more track and a turnout. The magic of it all made an indelible mark on my memory. We often visit Tenterden, and Rye - where during our journey from Tunbridge Wells - pass by the Northiam Station. Fond, fond memories. 

[Jon R]

Not sure about the sidings at Bodiam, but in 1966-67, one of the sidings at Northiam was original spiked flat-bottom and the other was chaired bullhead.

Jon

[FulhamTim]

Thought I was making real progress until I realised as I fixed the last fishplate that I had glued the rail down the wrong way around so that all the keys were on the inside.  Thankfully I have managed to remove the chairs from the sleepers, which are already firmly fixed to the base board, and without damaging the rail that is correctly fitted.  As punishment I threaded the 50+ chairs on to a new piece of rail and will have another go tomorrow at gluing it down the right way around.

[Richard Thomas]

22 hours ago, FulhamTim said:

Thought I was making real progress until I realised as I fixed the last fishplate that I had glued the rail down the wrong way around so that all the keys were on the inside.  Thankfully I have managed to remove the chairs from the sleepers, which are already firmly fixed to the base board, and without damaging the rail that is correctly fitted.  As punishment I threaded the 50+ chairs on to a new piece of rail and will have another go tomorrow at gluing it down the right way around.

Yes......I have also managed to do this 

[FulhamTim]

It only seems a few days ago when I was fixing the track.  Progress has been very slow since as my wife decided that I should fit the new blind she bought about six years ago in the kitchen.  At the same time she handed over 5 litres of the wall colour as the paint has peeled in one corner because of the steam from the kettle - apparently it is all the cups of tea I make.   So major project to redecorate the kitchen (I have some unfinished plumbing; two decorative panels to remove and replace (they are butted up to the glass backsplash and granite worktop).  Oh and  I also had to reorganise the shed to make working on the track more sensible - I now have a nice rubber floor over the concrete and better organised shelving.  

 

I have painted the track and ballast on the first two boards and am now ready to start flocking.   I'll post photos once I make some more progress - hopefully before Easter