Blackford to Gleneagles

[Clagmeister]

Base now 96% complete. Electrics next week and then wait for the shed to be delivered in the new year.

 

[pH]

21 hours ago, Clagmeister said:

There were three day time Perth-London/Crewe/Manchester turns, the locos listed on shed doesn't seem to reflect engines working in from the South.  Usually only one or two engines from Kingmoor or Crewe.  Very interesting.

‘British Railways Illustrated’ did a two-part article in January/February 2006 on ‘The Perth Black 5s’ (there was a maximum of 75 shedded there, at the end of 1950).

The February part contains a photograph which I think is relevant. It shows the 9AM Perth-Euston on the climb to Beattock, headed by two Stanier 5s, with 44924 of Perth as the pilot. The caption says that this train was usually powered by two Carstairs 5s. However, if either the down train carrying newspapers from Manchester, or the down West Coast Postal was late into Perth (which implies those were powered by the Carstairs engines used on the 9AM), Perth shed would to have to provide substitute(s).

 

If the engines for the 9AM arrived in the early hours of the morning, and left at 9 o’clock, a spotter would have to have been up pretty early to record them during their short turnaround on Perth shed!

 

Incidentally, there’s no date shown for that photograph, but 44924 has the early emblem on the tender.

[Clagmeister]

4 hours ago, pH said:

‘British Railways Illustrated’ did a two-part article in January/February 2006 on ‘The Perth Black 5s’ (there was a maximum of 75 shedded there, at the end of 1950).

The February part contains a photograph which I think is relevant. It shows the 9AM Perth-Euston on the climb to Beattock, headed by two Stanier 5s, with 44924 of Perth as the pilot. The caption says that this train was usually powered by two Carstairs 5s. However, if either the down train carrying newspapers from Manchester, or the down West Coast Postal was late into Perth (which implies those were powered by the Carstairs engines used on the 9AM), Perth shed would to have to provide substitute(s).

 

If the engines for the 9AM arrived in the early hours of the morning, and left at 9 o’clock, a spotter would have to have been up pretty early to record them during their short turnaround on Perth shed!

 

Incidentally, there’s no date shown for that photograph, but 44924 has the early emblem on the tender.

Fantastic stuff.  Its like putting a giant 3d jigsaw puzzle together.  All of these details start coming together.  Carstairs appears to be a much more important shed than I thought.

[Clagmeister]

 

3 Arch Bridge at MP135 which happens also to be the summit of the line between Stirling and Perth.

 

Its a bought kit, weathered and altered.  Really struggled to get the right redish sandstone colour.  Fairly happy but will see when there is a railway for it to sit on.  The bottom 5 cm will be buried in the foam i intend to use.

 

[Clagmeister]

First clip from this excellent upload shows virtually my plan in full.  Two appropriate locomotives too!

 

[Largechris]

(Golf related) I think the golf course closest to the line as shown on the map is unfortunately the Centenary course which was only built a few years ago, the magnificent Kings course is further up the hill and I imagine too far away for you to include.
Stunning area and I often wondered if someone would model it. We enjoyed the Glenturret distillery last year and have a bottle put aside. 

[Clagmeister]

On 17/11/2020 at 15:17, scottystitch said:

You won't find a 47 in our timescale I shouldn't think, but plenty 26s and I've seen 40s somewhere fr Dundee but most of those would have been on the Aberdeen trains.

 

Best

 

Scott.

 

 

Hmmm.  I was of the same opinion.  Here is a pic though of one working the UP postal at Carmont in 1965, suggesting possibly that Ferryhill and Perth men signed them....  I think I will be covering the dates from 55-67 so should be ok

 

Photo credit P. Hoquard, from the Scottish live journal site

[scottystitch]

33 minutes ago, Clagmeister said:

 

Hmmm.  I was of the same opinion.  Here is a pic though of one working the UP postal at Carmont in 1965, suggesting possibly that Ferryhill and Perth men signed them....  I think I will be covering the dates from 55-67 so should be ok

 

Photo credit P. Hoquard, from the Scottish live journal site

Well I sit corrected. I’d never seen that image before. Is it definitely the West Coast Postal though?  I know 47s reached Haymarket around 65 so I wonder if it is a filling in turn from there up the east coast route?

 

I admit I know next to nothing about whether There were postal trains that took that route. 

 

best

 

Scott. 

[scottystitch]

47 minutes ago, Clagmeister said:

 

 

 

Photo credit P. Hoquard, from the Scottish live journal site

 

It looks like D1547 or D1647.

 

D1647 was a Cardiff and Landore machine at that time so seems unlikely

 

D1547 was a Gateshead and Finsbury Park engine in 1965 so seems more likely.

 

If it is the West Coast Postal, I'd surmise that the engine would have come off at Perth, so it could return south to it's home via Edinburgh and the ECML, possibly on the overnight car train from Perth.

 

All the images I've seen so far of 47s at or apporaching Perth have been 1966 and on, and they've been from/to the Glenfarg route, mostly on the Angle Scottish Car Carrier, via the ECML, but also on fitted freight vans.  I haven't seem them on the Caley route south of Perth.

 

The fly in that ointment is that for the West Coast Postal, my understanding was that the train engine took the mail vehicles on to Carstairs after the train was split at Perth, a new engine attaching to the passenger portion for Glasgow BS.  It's entirely possible I'm wrong though and the 47 took the mail to Carsatirs and then made its way back to Edinburgh from there...

 

Either way, it's a great image and very interesting.

 

Best

 

Scott.

[Clagmeister]

Yes just adds to the intrigue.  All probably correct assumptions I would imagine.  We'll never know if it followed the steam diagram to Carstairs or not.  I imagine it would be down to who signed them and who didn't.  The photograph may exist because it was a 'rare' cop.  More digging required.....

 

One of my colleagues owns 47712 and works on the others in the fleet, he's a bit of an oracle on these things, i'll ask him.

[scottystitch]

Alright, I'm clearly wrong.  My humblest apologies.

 

This is D1843 on Beattock Bank with a train for Perth in June 1965, which must have passed through Gleneagles to reach it's destination.

 

http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_zoom_v3.php?img=0146020090000

 

EDIT:  And even more compelling, again June 1965 the west coast postal with D1633 at Beattock.

 

http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_zoom_v3.php?img=0146020091000

 

Best

 

Scott.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by scottystitch
Extra Information

[Clagmeister]

Good finds.  That would sort of suggest Perth and Carlisle men had them that early too.  Plot thickens.  No need to apologise, we're just working through a complicated period.  All good learning.

[Clagmeister]

As I'm only running plain line on the visible part of this layout i was think of using finescale track.  Are locos like the Farish Scot, Jub and possibly the Black Five ok to run on it?

 

I assume all of the Dapol stuff and the later Farish locos like the Duchess, Class 40 and A2/A1 are ok?

 

Any knowledge on this out there?

 

Thanks

 

Claggy

[MarshLane]

5 hours ago, Clagmeister said:

As I'm only running plain line on the visible part of this layout i was think of using finescale track.  Are locos like the Farish Scot, Jub and possibly the Black Five ok to run on it?

 

I assume all of the Dapol stuff and the later Farish locos like the Duchess, Class 40 and A2/A1 are ok?

 

Any knowledge on this out there?

 

Thanks

 

Claggy

Hi Claggy,

Yes with the more recent locos you should be fine with Code 40 Finetrax.

 

Rich

[Clagmeister]

On 25/11/2020 at 01:04, MarshLane said:

Hi Claggy,

Yes with the more recent locos you should be fine with Code 40 Finetrax.

 

Rich

 

Thank you for that.  Even more excited about it now.

[Clagmeister]

The sign highlighted in the pic is AWB (apply wagon brakes).  

Can anyone remember seeing class F or H freights stopping there to 'pin' down before continuing North?

[Clagmeister]

Still no shed so just getting on with weathering as and when stock arrives.  Pretty happy with how the weathering is going.

 

City of Liverpool of Kingmoor Depot works an afternoon Carlisle-Perth vans.  

 

[Clagmeister]

Not much to report. Have weathered 60027 Merlin in standard St Rollox all over filth.  60024 Kingfisher in fairly presentable Ferryhill grime.

 

 

[Clagmeister]

You see this colourised picture of 60026 on Flikr.  The TPO vans are red and that is what I'm modelling.  It seems though from a few other pictures that the West Coast Postal (Aberdeen portion) vans were maroon?  Or did they change colour from time to time.  The liveries and dates used of TPOs is a bit sketchy.

 

 

Thanks 

 

Claggy

Edited January 31, 2021 by Clagmeister

[ScRSG]

During your period (and mine) the TPO vans were all ex-LMS vehicles and were always in Maroon. Only very much later did Mk1 TPO's have red livery.

 

 

Seen here going through Plean, a bit further South from You.

 

Chas

[Gibbo675]

31 minutes ago, Clagmeister said:

You see this colourised picture of 60026 on Flikr.  The TPO vans are red and that is what I'm modelling.  It seems though from a few other pictures that the West Coast Postal (Aberdeen portion) vans were maroon?  Or did they change colour from time to time.  The liveries and dates used of TPOs is a bit sketchy.

 

 

Thanks 

 

Claggy

Hi Mike,

 

The TPO vehicles carried various shades of red through the 50's and 60's both the carmine of secondary passenger stock and Post Office red were used in the earlier period and later passenger maroon.  It was after the great train robbery in 1963 that all the TPO stock was painted to match passenger stock which at the time would have been the later passenger maroon and green on the Southern. It would seem that you would have to research the actual vehicles to get the actual liveries absolutely correct. Blue grey, which is after your period, came into use after 1970 for TPO vehicles for the same reason.

 

Despite all of the above I painted my latest Mail Coach blue:

 

 

 

 

Gibbo.

 

[Clagmeister]

43 minutes ago, ScRSG said:

During your period (and mine) the TPO vans were all ex-LMS vehicles and were always in Maroon. Only very much later did Mk1 TPO's have red livery.

 

 

Seen here going through Plean, a bit further South from You.

 

Chas

 

Ferryhill Thompson A2 on the turn.  Nice!  I have 60527 booked for it as soon as it can run.  Thanks for the info and picture.  Grafar do a red POS, i'll probably stick with them for now.

 

Cheers

[Clagmeister]

So weathered 60528 'Tudor Minstrel' today. Weathered as if the cleaners have had a decent go at it with paraffin cotton waste.  Evidently the cleaners at Dundee Tay Bridge 62B can't be bothered stretching up to do the top of the barrel.  The foreman won't look up there I guess.  The more you look the more evident the 'can't be arsed' line is in pictures. A4s particuarly.  Anyway hope to make a start on the layout soon, but weathering it is for now.

Edited February 6, 2021 by Clagmeister

[Clagmeister]

Sheds here, have now made some progress with the boards and Ochill Hills back scene.

 

[Gibbo675]

8 minutes ago, Clagmeister said:

Sheds here, have now made some progress with the boards and Ochill Hills back scene.

 

Hi Mike,

 

That explains why you haven't answered your phone, playing out in your fancy new shed !

 

Gibbo.