Blackford to Gleneagles

[Clagmeister]

I'd thought about 47s, 40s and 26s but Peaks hadn't crossed my mind.  I'll have to look into it.  Looks like more £s going out of the door.

 

Excellent fot.  I looked at all those archive pics on Flikr.  Some fab stuff on my curve.

[scottystitch]

You won't find a 47 in our timescale I shouldn't think, but plenty 26s and I've seen 40s somewhere fr Dundee but most of those would have been on the Aberdeen trains.

 

Best

 

Scott.

 

[scottystitch]

On 14/11/2020 at 12:46, Clagmeister said:

 

Meanwhile i have to content myself with assembling stock and looking at it on the table.

 

Kingfisher on the closest i can get to a 3hr formation

 

cheerio

 

Claggy

The 1964  carriage marshalling tables have the 3 hr express formations as:

 

0825 Glasgow BS to Aberdeen BSK SK SK RMB FK BSK SK (Balance was the 1330 Aberdeen to Glasgow BS)

0710 Aberdeen to Glasgow BS BSK FK RB SK SK BSK (Balance was the 1405 Glasgow BS to Aberdeen)

 

1715 Aberdeen to Glasgow BS BSK FK RU SO SK SK BSK  (Balance was the 1000 Glasgow BS to Aberdeen)

1730 Glasgow BS to Aberdeen BSK SK SK SK RU FK BSK (Balance was the 0930 Aberdeen to Glasgow BS)

 

EDIT: These trains must not exceed 275 tons.

 

I hope that is helpful.

 

Best

 

Scott.

Edited November 17, 2020 by scottystitch
Clarity

[Clagmeister]

2 minutes ago, scottystitch said:

The 1964  carriage marshalling tables have the 3 hr express formations as:

 

0825 Glasgow BS to Aberdeen BSK SK SK RMB FK BSK SK (Balance was the 1330 Aberdeen to Glasgow BS)

0710 Aberdeen to Glasgow BS BSK FK RB SK SK BSK (Balance was the 1405 Glasgow BS to Aberdeen)

 

1715 Aberdeen to Glasgow BS BSK FK RU SO SK SK BSK  (Balance was the 1000 Glasgow BS to Aberdeen)

1730 Glasgow BS to Aberdeen BSK SK SK SK RU FK BSK (Balance was the 0930 Aberdeen to Glasgow BS)

 

I hope that is helpful.

 

Best

 

Scott.

 

Superb thanks.  Have a little bit to do looking at that.  Unfortunately BSKs and SKs are hard to come by, will have to keep a look out.  I'll try and get it as accurate as possible eventually.  Those carriage marshalling tables look very interesting.

[scottystitch]

1 minute ago, Clagmeister said:

 

Unfortunately BSKs and SKs are hard to come by, will have to keep a look out. 

If you let me know what you need, I might be able to help out on that front.

[Clagmeister]

Just now, scottystitch said:

If you let me know what you need, I might be able to help out on that front.

 

I will don't worry.  Muchly appreciated.  What happened to yours??

 

  Funds at the minute going towards the building and base etc.

[Clagmeister]

6 hours ago, scottystitch said:

The 1964  carriage marshalling tables have the 3 hr express formations as:

 

0825 Glasgow BS to Aberdeen BSK SK SK RMB FK BSK SK (Balance was the 1330 Aberdeen to Glasgow BS)

0710 Aberdeen to Glasgow BS BSK FK RB SK SK BSK (Balance was the 1405 Glasgow BS to Aberdeen)

 

1715 Aberdeen to Glasgow BS BSK FK RU SO SK SK BSK  (Balance was the 1000 Glasgow BS to Aberdeen)

1730 Glasgow BS to Aberdeen BSK SK SK SK RU FK BSK (Balance was the 0930 Aberdeen to Glasgow BS)

 

EDIT: These trains must not exceed 275 tons.

 

I hope that is helpful.

 

Best

 

Scott.

 

On a similar note, does the document cover the Midland region turns to the South and North from Perth?  I would be very interested in what the formation of the Royal Highlander was 9.50pm ex Perth, the 4.15pm Inverness (8.15pm) ex Perth to Kensignton Olympia and the 9.00pm Perth to London Euston.

 

from what i can make out of the trains around my Division at Carlisle there were a right mish mash of staniers, Mk1s etc etc.  

 

Thanks

 

Claggy

[scottystitch]

10 minutes ago, Clagmeister said:

 

On a similar note, does the document cover the Midland region turns to the South and North from Perth?  I would be very interested in what the formation of the Royal Highlander was 9.50pm ex Perth, the 4.15pm Inverness (8.15pm) ex Perth to Kensignton Olympia and the 9.00pm Perth to London Euston.

 

from what i can make out of the trains around my Division at Carlisle there were a right mish mash of staniers, Mk1s etc etc.  

 

Thanks

 

Claggy

Hi Claggy,

 

Yes they do.  I’ll dig them out this week for you. 
 

best

 

Scott. 

[scottystitch]

Carriage info sent by PM.

 

Scott.

 

 

 

 

 

[lmsforever]

 This is shaping up to be a great project once your shed is built it will be a great place to go to and escape this horrible world .The area you are modeling is indeed a lovely part of the the world and will make a great model like you I now model Scotland albeit the south west .I have a dvd of the Tesco train and its journey north a wonderful line to model.Will look out for your posts.

[scottystitch]

Mike, Diesel Days Scotland reveals the following:

 

P47 D6127 & D6135 "passenger Train from Glasgow (to Dundee West) - April 1961

 

P51 D5124 BR Sulzer Type 2 16.00 Dundee W to Glasgow BS - 12th September 1963

 

P55 D6114 NBL Type 2 09.15 Glasgow BS to Dundee - 3rd June 1966

 

P56 D132 BR Sulzer Type 4 12.00 Dundee W to Glasgow BS 27 June 1964

 

Best

 

Scott

 

 

[Clagmeister]

Excellent, I only really want a smattering of diesels ideally.  I was putting my allocations together and I had a 40 booked for the Royal Highlander.  I had to take it off, I just couldn't do it.  Back rightfully to a Carlisle Duchess now.  I've now stuck it on the down Granite City 

 

By the way Scotty that marshalling document has filled in some amount of time over the last couple of days.  Fascinating reading.  Certainly improved the accuracy of the formations in my head.

[scottystitch]

17 minutes ago, Clagmeister said:

Excellent, I only really want a smattering of diesels ideally.  I was putting my allocations together and I had a 40 booked for the Royal Highlander.  I had to take it off, I just couldn't do it.  Back rightfully to a Carlisle Duchess now.  I've now stuck it on the down Granite City 

 

You can't beat a Duchess on the Euston train, although in your timescale it would have come off at Perth for a diesel (I can't remember the exact date steam was eliminated from the Highland Main Line - which is shameful, it should be etched in my brain...)  You could also use a Brit.

 

I have seen 40s on the Aberdeen trains.

 

Glad the documents helped.

 

Best

 

Scott.

Edited November 19, 2020 by scottystitch

[Clagmeister]

Yes what happens North of Perth is for someone else to model.  Yes North of Perth was very early 62 ish at a guess.

[pH]

54 minutes ago, Clagmeister said:

I was putting my allocations together and I had a 40 booked for the Royal Highlander.  I had to take it off, I just couldn't do it.  Back rightfully to a Carlisle Duchess now.  

I thought the Royal Highlander was worked by a Crewe North Duchess and crew from Crewe to Perth. It would appear to have been in the 1950s, but looking at the “shed bash” website, it seems only Kingmoor Duchesses were making it regularly to Perth in your timescale.

[Clagmeister]

11 minutes ago, pH said:

I thought the Royal Highlander was worked by a Crewe North Duchess and crew from Crewe to Perth. It would appear to have been in the 1950s, but looking at the “shed bash” website, it seems only Kingmoor Duchesses were making it regularly to Perth in your timescale.

 

I think latterly although only going from anecdotal evidence in railway books etc that the Oban/Perth had a Crewe Duchess throughout sometimes right up to the end.  These were the 1019 ex Crewe and the 1040 on Friday nights.  The 1019 changed engines at Carlisle or so they say.  Crewe North men who I work with say their colleagues were still sweeping the tenders out at Forteviot.  Mind you the Perth turns are all Crewe men ever talk about, there must have been a hundred of them on the footplate every night!!

 

PS whats the shed bash web site

 

Cheers

 

Claggy

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Clagmeister

[pH]

4 minutes ago, Clagmeister said:

PS whats the shed bash web site

It’s a collection of spotters’ notes from shed visits. 
 

Here’s the home page:

http://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/

 

And here’s the information for Perth(South) shed, which was the only Perth shed at the time you’re interested in:

http://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2016/01/perth-south-1938-1967.html

 

 

 

 

 

[Clagmeister]

12 minutes ago, pH said:

It’s a collection of spotters’ notes from shed visits. 
 

Here’s the home page:

http://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/

 

And here’s the information for Perth(South) shed, which was the only Perth shed at the time you’re interested in:

http://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2016/01/perth-south-1938-1967.html

 

 

 

 

 

WoW!  What a resource, thank you.  45 and didn't know that existed, doh!!

 

Seems that Duchess's were fairly rare until they started getting displaced from the Glasgow work.  It appears Kingmoor preferred to send Jubs and Clans North.  There were three day time Perth-London/Crewe/Manchester turns, the locos listed on shed doesn't seem to reflect engines working in from the South.  Usually only one or two engines from Kingmoor or Crewe.  Very interesting.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Clagmeister

[scottystitch]

 

11 hours ago, Clagmeister said:

WoW!  What a resource, thank you.  45 and didn't know that existed, doh!!

 

Seems that Duchess's were fairly rare until they started getting displaced from the Glasgow work.  It appears Kingmoor preferred to send Jubs and Clans North.  There were three day time Perth-London/Crewe/Manchester turns, the locos listed on shed doesn't seem to reflect engines working in from the South.  Usually only one or two engines from Kingmoor or Crewe.  Very interesting.

My Grandfather fired and drove out of Perth South in both directions, North and South, in the 60s (he even made the local rag following an incident with a type 2 between Perth and Inverness).  Unfortunately there is no record of what turns he was involved in, but my Father remembers that he had two layover locations regularly, Inverness and Carlisle.  This suggests Perth crews dealt with at least some of the England trains on the old Caledonian route during that period.

 

I have pictures of Clans, Duchesses, Jubilees and Royal Scots on parcels workings as well as passenger trains from/to Carlisle.

 

Best

 

Scott.

Edited November 20, 2020 by scottystitch

[Clagmeister]

1 hour ago, scottystitch said:

 

My Grandfather fired and drove out of Perth South in both directions, North and South, in the 60s (he even made the local rag following an incident with a type 2 between Perth and Inverness).  Unfortunately there is no record of what turns he was involved in, but my Father remembers that he had two layover locations regularly, Inverness and Carlisle.  This suggests Perth crews dealt with at least some of the England trains on the old Caledonian route during that period.

 

I have pictures of Clans, Duchesses, Jubilees and Royal Scots on parcels workings as well as passenger trains from/to Carlisle.

 

Best

 

Scott.

Fantastic stuff.  Yes Perth men made Carlisle quite a bit.  The UP postal all the way to Carlisle was Perths top turn I'm led to believe.  They even continued to work this into the electric era when the Perth top link signed leckys when the engine change was moved to Mossend.  Apparently this didn't go down well with the Motherwell men.  Perth men were offered a balancing turn with the Crewe men which would have entailed i presume a night run to Crewe and lodge.  They, probably quite wisely, turned it down!!  The coal consumption on a Duchess is hard to get your head round!  A week of night shifts firing one of them would turn you into a pro athlete.  No wonder the fireman looked the  way they did.

 

Its such a shame all the diagrams, driver names, workings and all the other records from these top sheds appears to be lost.  The people and the workings they were asked to do i find is the only thing that really brings pictures to life.

 

I thought that Perth would have featured high up in the tails of Kingmoor men but it seems not to be the case.  Their engines made Perth and Aberdeen a lot but whether they went with them i'm not sure.

[scottystitch]

1 minute ago, Clagmeister said:

Fantastic stuff.  Yes Perth men made Carlisle quite a bit.  The UP postal all the way to Carlisle was Perths top turn I'm led to believe.  They even continued to work this into the electric era when the Perth top link signed leckys when the engine change was moved to Mossend.  Apparently this didn't go down well with the Motherwell men.  Perth men were offered a balancing turn with the Crewe men which would have entailed i presume a night run to Crewe and lodge.  They, probably quite wisely, turned it down!!  The coal consumption on a Duchess is hard to get your head round!  A week of night shifts firing one of them would turn you into a pro athlete.  No wonder the fireman looked the  way they did.

 

Its such a shame all the diagrams, driver names, workings and all the other records from these top sheds appears to be lost.  The people and the workings they were asked to do i find is the only thing that really brings pictures to life.

 

I thought that Perth would have featured high up in the tails of Kingmoor men but it seems not to be the case.  Their engines made Perth and Aberdeen a lot but whether they went with them i'm not sure.

I only have two contemporary records of my Grandfather on the railways, that newspaper clipping referenced above and a photograph I found on Flickr of him in the cab of a Black 5.  He always used to go on about how good the "Hikers" were on the Highland Main line.

 

It's a shame that he didn't keep a record of the locomotives or turns that he took charge of.  But then again, maybe it was just a job to him and the details didn't interest him.

 

My Great Grandfather was on the railways too, signalman on the ECML north of Montrose. Craigo and Fourdon are two I know of. He was also at Hilton Junction (how good would that have been in the 60s?!) and, just before retirement, Perth Power Box.  Again, he didn't appear to record much for personal purposes.  I've always meant to try and find out if I could get access to the signalbox diaries for when he would have been on duty....

 

Sorry for the thread wander.

 

Best

 

Scott.

[scottystitch]

12 minutes ago, Clagmeister said:

The UP postal all the way to Carlisle was Perths top turn I'm led to believe. 

 

That's interesting.  I always assumed it would be the Glasgow portion crew that would take the train from Carstairs to Carlisle after they joined up.  Was there an Edinburgh postal section that was incorporated at Carstairs too?

 

Best

 

Scott.

[Clagmeister]

This isn't thread wander!  It's nice to know a bit about the workings i'm modelling.  When my City of Leeds or City of Birmingham wheels around the curve in the early morning it will be nice to think that that would have been a very tired pair of Crewe men.  Likewise it will be nice to think that the A4 on the postal has Perth men on it and so on and so on.

[Clagmeister]

3 minutes ago, scottystitch said:

 

That's interesting.  I always assumed it would be the Glasgow portion crew that would take the train from Carstairs to Carlisle after they joined up.  Was there an Edinburgh postal section that was incorporated at Carstairs too?

 

Best

 

Scott.

 

That i don't know.  Its also a shame all the signal box registers and men who worked them are lost.  You can glean a lot of superb information from those records too.

[scottystitch]

1 minute ago, Clagmeister said:

 

That i don't know.  Its also a shame all the signal box registers and men who worked them are lost.  You can glean a lot of superb information from those records too.

I didn't know they were lost. I naivly assumed they'd be in an archive somewhere...