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BR(S) Colour light signalling help please...


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17 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

If I do use these, I guess I can paint over the white LEDs with yellow nail varnish to give the yellow aspects. Has anyone done this?

Ian

It's the red aspect that needs changing to a yellow aspect, not the white ones. 

Edited by iands
Added missing word.
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9 minutes ago, iands said:

It's the red aspect that needs changing to a yellow aspect, not the white ones. 

Ah good job you mentioned that! In that case I am stuck so I'll go with the illuminated discs. I'll get some from MSE.

Thanks!

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11 hours ago, ikcdab said:

Thanks for your comments. Are you certain about this? My understanding (though I now cannot find the quote) was that as the next "signal" is the permanent red light on the buffer stop, then this signal should only show red/yellow. Of course, this might be a date thing where practice has changed.

 

 

Yes, I am absolutely certain about this, it was standard Southern Railway practice (no doubt derived from LBSCR practice with semaphores) from the installation of the very first colour light signals in the mid-1920s and it continued with the Southern Region right up until the installation of the emergency replacement box at Cannon Street in 1957. The later 1962 Kent schemes introduced position light (w/©-w) calling-on signals both in running situations (where motorised floodlit discs with a "C" on them had been used before including in the earlier 1959 Kent schemes) and at the approach to terminal platforms - in the latter case the running signal became R/G two-aspect - but there was no retrofitment of previous schemes. Finally, post-Moorgate so about 40 years ago, that two aspect became R/Y (and the preceding signal in 4-aspect areas became Y/R/Y instead of R/Y/G).

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3 hours ago, ikcdab said:

....., I guess I can paint over the white LEDs with yellow nail varnish to give the yellow aspects. ....

Do not forget that the 'pivot' light in the bottom RH corner has to show either red/yellow when 'on' or white when 'off'.

 

PS: no hats were worn in the making of  that statement :-)

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2 hours ago, bécasse said:

Yes, I am absolutely certain about this, it was standard Southern Railway practice (no doubt derived from LBSCR practice with semaphores) from the installation of the very first colour light signals in the mid-1920s and it continued with the Southern Region right up until the installation of the emergency replacement box at Cannon Street in 1957. The later 1962 Kent schemes introduced position light (w/©-w) calling-on signals both in running situations (where motorised floodlit discs with a "C" on them had been used before including in the earlier 1959 Kent schemes) and at the approach to terminal platforms - in the latter case the running signal became R/G two-aspect - but there was no retrofitment of previous schemes. Finally, post-Moorgate so about 40 years ago, that two aspect became R/Y (and the preceding signal in 4-aspect areas became Y/R/Y instead of R/Y/G).

I don't doubt that one bit.  It was standard practice on the LMS at one time so I don't find it unusual that the SR also used it although the LNER appears not to have and the GWR definitely didn't (on its very limited applications of multiple aspect signals) although I do wonder what aspect was used with GWR 3 position semaphores to enter a platform which was already occupied although i believe the 3 position semaphores on teh SE&CR/GWR joint side at Victoria used disc subsidiaries.

 

The idea of a the stop block red light effectively being the next signal aspect and thus requiring a single yellow to enter a dead end terminus platform is a comparatively modern idea standardised on BR following the Moorgate collision on the UndergroundD.  Prior to that in the 1960s there had still been some differences in practice between the BR Regions but there was a standardisation on green in the latter half of the 1960s prior to which the WR - for example - had used single yellow.

 

As I've mentioned elsewhere on RMweb the ultimate example of a succession of changes occurred on our local (WR)  branchline where a signal installed in 1961 was originally red/yellow but was then altered to red/green later in teh 1960s before being changed back to red/yellow post Moorgate - fortunately the signal had a 3 aspect head so the changes were simple.

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2 minutes ago, RailWest said:

Do not forget that the 'pivot' light in the bottom RH corner has to show either red/yellow when 'on' or white when 'off'.

 

PS: no hats were worn in the making of  that statement :-)

Not in the 1960s - pivot lights were always 'white' until a campaign change began in the 1990s to alter them to show two reds (or two yellows) when in the 'on' position in order to bring them into line with the new pattern 'Limit of Shunt'  ground signal.

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19 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Not in the 1960s - pivot lights were always 'white' until a campaign change began in the 1990s to alter them to show two reds (or two yellows) when in the 'on' position in order to bring them into line with the new pattern 'Limit of Shunt'  ground signal.

You are right of course. Ironically I was actually trying to talk specifically about the older arrangement, but somehow my brain seems to have scrambled to the two situations around chronologically <oops>.

Edited by RailWest
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46 minutes ago, RailWest said:

Do not forget that the 'pivot' light in the bottom RH corner has to show either red/yellow when 'on' or white when 'off'.

 

PS: no hats were worn in the making of  that statement :-)

Don't think so. The 'pivot' light is the one that is always illuminated, and is always white. The 'bottom left' (as viewed from the front) is either red or yellow, and the 'upper left' is white.

 

Apologies, RailWest and Stationmaster responded whilst I was typing my response. And to clarify my response, I am referring to 3-light GPLs before LED type GPLs came into use.

Edited by iands
Clarification.
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6 hours ago, ikcdab said:

Thank you all for your helpful replies. I now have some thinking to do.

I still quite like the idea of having working GPLs even thought they might be out of timeframe. I like the look of these:

https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/4x-2-wire-lms-br-ground-signal/

It says they have been in use since the 1930s, bit I guess not on the southern where you say they only appeared from 1960s.

If I do use these, I guess I can paint over the white LEDs with yellow nail varnish to give the yellow aspects. Has anyone done this?

Ian

You can get miniature yellow LEDS, we used them on New Annington in the mid 1980s.

 

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3 hours ago, RailWest said:

You are right of course. Ironically I was actually trying to talk specifically about the older arrangement, but somehow my brain seems to have scrambled to the two situations around chronologically <oops>.

 

Should have worn your hat ;)

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