Colas HST Power Cars

[TomScrut]

I was wondering what the main purpose of 43050 and 43060 is now they are with Colas.

 

Is it that they would normally be stand ins for NMT power cars (given they are run by Colas AFAIK), or are they going to be spending most of their time on MK2/1 test trains as they have been this weekend?

 

If they are to be predominantly on the MK2/1 trains what are they replacing? 37s, 67s or fulfilling a shortfall of locos?

 

Are they getting reliveried long term? Wikipedia suggests so but obviously that's not always accurate!

 

Sorry if this has already been discussed on here, I did search to no avail.

 

Would be quite cool if Hornby did some to suit whatever they end up like.

[nightstar.train]

There’s a photo today on the HST enthusiast Facebook group showing the 2 colas power cars on a shakedown run. They’re sandwiching one of the Plain Line Patten Recognition trains. Appears to be a Mk1 BG generator van and 3 Mk2s. Presumably it’ll be limited to 90 or 100 mph because of the Mk1 vehicle. But then I don’t know what speed the PLPR train can operate at whilst still scanning, so that might not be a problem. 

[TomScrut]

14 minutes ago, nightstar.train said:

There’s a photo today on the HST enthusiast Facebook group showing the 2 colas power cars on a shakedown run. They’re sandwiching one of the Plain Line Patten Recognition trains. Appears to be a Mk1 BG generator van and 3 Mk2s. Presumably it’ll be limited to 90 or 100 mph because of the Mk1 vehicle. But then I don’t know what speed the PLPR train can operate at whilst still scanning, so that might not be a problem. 

 

Yes I have seen photos of them with this train, which is why I am asking as I had assumed they were NMT stand ins but this suggests otherwise and that they'll be replacing something.

[TravisM]

They might have to run with a generator car between them as HST power cars have a non standard 3-phase electrical supply which obviously was to supply power to the Mk 3’s A/C, lighting and in the buffet, cooking facilities.

 

It would be too expensive to convert them to standard, so they will probably have to use a generator car for Mk1’s and 2’s, and restricted to 90/100 mph.

Edited October 19, 2020 by jools1959
Typo

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

Allegedly to replace Class 37's, they need something with a "go anywhere" RA Index of 5 that isn't 60-odd years old. I suppose they will relivery them if they prove to be better than the Class 37's for what they are using them on.

[nightstar.train]

14 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Allegedly to replace Class 37's, they need something with a "go anywhere" RA Index of 5 that isn't 60-odd years old. I suppose they will relivery them if they prove to be better than the Class 37's for what they are using them on.

 

I thought the class 73/9 Minions were being designed for this? Maybe their RA is too high, or the project was too hard in other ways. 

[TomScrut]

How many test trains are there? There seems to be quite a lot and yet NR have 2 73/9s and several 37s, which are/have been going through some tidying up AFAIK.

[TomScrut]

Looks like they are going to Scarborough tonight so might go for a look

[black and decker boy]

5 hours ago, nightstar.train said:

 

I thought the class 73/9 Minions were being designed for this? Maybe their RA is too high, or the project was too hard in other ways. 

They have never done much work. The GBRF 73/9.  Variants are obviously more in number and a lot busier too but GBRF have the monopoly on the rest of the class.

 

the ex MML HST PCs are more suited to this ad-hoc, stable anywhere use than the MTU fitted PCs which need shore supply if you want to shut them down 

[black and decker boy]

20 hours ago, jools1959 said:

They might have to run with a generator car between them as HST power cars have a non standard 3-phase electrical supply which obviously was to supply power to the Mk 3’s A/C, lighting and in the buffet, cooking facilities.

 

It would be too expensive to convert them to standard, so they will probably have to use a generator car for Mk1’s and 2’s, and restricted to 90/100 mph.

The test trains already run with generator cars as the 37fleet is all non-heat fitted.

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

21 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

They have never done much work. The GBRF 73/9.  Variants are obviously more in number and a lot busier too but GBRF have the monopoly on the rest of the class.

 

the ex MML HST PCs are more suited to this ad-hoc, stable anywhere use than the MTU fitted PCs which need shore supply if you want to shut them down 

All of the "new boy" operators have wised up to this, Locomotive Services and DATS both using VP185's. The cold start thing is an issue, although it can be over-ridden but at the cost of 100 hours added to the engine hours clock if you do that to an MTU under a service contract, but the bigger issue is that after a few days of being stood the MTUs tended to drop all their coolant, and it's a reliability and cost headache to recover from that each and every time- ask EMR for details!!

[adb968008]

23 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Allegedly to replace Class 37's, they need something with a "go anywhere" RA Index of 5 that isn't 60-odd years old. I suppose they will relivery them if they prove to be better than the Class 37's for what they are using them on.

Are there many HST Drivers on the Southern ?
 

Plenty of 37/67/73 on NMT down here, but its a long way from exclusively a 73 domain, theres generally 2-3 class 37’s here each week on this work, from Hither Green or Tonbridge.

 

[TravisM]

15 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

The test trains already run with generator cars as the 37fleet is all non-heat fitted.

Except those hauled by 37421.  I’ve got pictures of a Network Rail test train top and tailed by 37’s without a generator car, one set in the middle of winter.

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

11 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Are there many HST Drivers on the Southern ?
 

Plenty of 37/67/73 on NMT down here, but its a long way from exclusively a 73 domain, theres generally 2-3 class 37’s here each week on this work, from Hither Green or Tonbridge.

 

Probably not, but elsewhere lots of Colas people sign HST power cars including all the infrastructure monitoring people that TUPE'd in and many from previous employments where poached from long distance passenger TOCs. They generally don't use HST vehicles on the Southern as most of it isn't cleared for either the power cars or the Mk3's so I would assume the other locos would still have a role down there.

 

[TomScrut]

2 hours ago, jools1959 said:

Except those hauled by 37421.  I’ve got pictures of a Network Rail test train top and tailed by 37’s without a generator car, one set in the middle of winter.

 

Won't the DRS 37/4s that have been doing a bit of test train work also have heat?

 

421 is the only Colas /4 though isn't it?

[TravisM]

3 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Won't the DRS 37/4s that have been doing a bit of test train work also have heat?

 

421 is the only Colas /4 though isn't it?

DRS have pulled the plug on test train work so that could be one reason Colas have got the HST power cars?

[TomScrut]

4 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

DRS have pulled the plug on test train work so that could be one reason Colas have got the HST power cars?

 

Yeah I knew they packed it in a few weeks ago didn't they. I wonder what that holds for their 37s?

[ColinK]

Any idea why DRS pulled the plug?

[TomScrut]

2 hours ago, ColinK said:

Any idea why DRS pulled the plug?

 

I think it was a short term thing anyway over the summer wasn't it?

[black and decker boy]

2 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

I think it was a short term thing anyway over the summer wasn't it?

Rumour elsewhere is more long term than that. The IM contract renews next year too IIRC so maybe Colas + PCs = winning bid?

[PaulRhB]

10 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

They generally don't use HST vehicles on the Southern as most of it isn't cleared for either the power cars or the Mk3's

The Wessex area has a restriction on the coaches with long swing links and on some curves they have OPPOS restrictions, we do get HST’s occasionally on specials and when there was major engineering at Paddington thru to Waterloo. They were also on the XC services for many years  
Photos Copyright Matt Hurst with permission. 
 

2009

 

2013

 

2015

 

and regularly on the NMT every three months. 

[keefer]

I take it that all NMT mk3s are SSL?

[newbryford]

On 20/10/2020 at 11:10, jools1959 said:

Except those hauled by 37421.  I’ve got pictures of a Network Rail test train top and tailed by 37’s without a generator car, one set in the middle of winter.

 

Some of the test vehicles have on-board generators and do not require a dedicated generator vehicle.

e.g. I think 977974 and 977977 have gennies. (and there maybe a couple of others.)

There are the generator fitted RTOV (DBSOs) 9701/8/3 as well. (These are sometimes used in top n tail formation with 37s.)

 

The NMT power cars do not supply power to the test vehicles. The NMT set has 975984 and 977984 fitted with generators

Edited October 21, 2020 by newbryford

[PaulRhB]

26 minutes ago, keefer said:

I take it that all NMT mk3s are SSL?

Sorry no idea, I think it’s only a restriction on 3rd rail areas, but it’s from word of mouth I’ve not seen a formal reason and the restriction on curves used to only be on SSL coaches but was widened to include all as a precaution, so those designed purely for OHLE monitoring wouldn’t be in formations on the Southern. 

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

8 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Sorry no idea, I think it’s only a restriction on 3rd rail areas, but it’s from word of mouth I’ve not seen a formal reason and the restriction on curves used to only be on SSL coaches but was widened to include all as a precaution, so those designed purely for OHLE monitoring wouldn’t be in formations on the Southern. 

They must be SSL to get onto the Southern, but the Southern is a vast region and the NMT will probably only be passed for a very limited number of lines as no HST has ever gone East of the line Waterloo-Woking-Havant and there will be slices of the lines West and North of that which are not fit for them, such as Fareham-Southampton direct as well as twiddly bits usually served by SWR Class 455's!