Cunningham Loco & Machine Works Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Precisely what the title implies: what were some of the smallest standard gauge steam locomotives used in the UK? I ask because I wish to build a Gauge One model of one of these "little fellows". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo675 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 19 minutes ago, Cunningham Loco & Machine Works said: Precisely what the title implies: what were some of the smallest standard gauge steam locomotives used in the UK? I ask because I wish to build a Gauge One model of one of these "little fellows". Hi There, I would take a guess at Peckett and Son's 1900: https://www.brc-stockbook.co.uk/1900.htm Gibbo. 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2O Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 There were the Aveling and Porter series of standard gauge locomotives based on traction engines. AFAIK these were a bit ligher than the one off Pecket design, but it depends if you measure size by height, length, weight etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Some of the very early locomotives were extremely small. Rocket for example is tiny. It was only just over four tons in weight. But I think The Flying Bufferbeam wins as it's compact. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 'Gazelle' from the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire Light Railway must come close with 2'3" driving wheels and 4" x 9" cylinders? https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/1-0-4-2wt-shropshire-montgomery/ Andy 2 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikcdab Posted October 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2020 Another vote for Gazelle as the smallest loco.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) This doesn’t look all that small in side elevation, but it was effectively a typical KS Brazil class 24” or 30” gauge loco on SG, so was in fact very tiny https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-60478 Ah, there’s a picture here that makes very clear how low the cab roof was (I’m trying to embed as a link, which won’t work, so apologies to the owner of the photo) Edited October 21, 2020 by Nearholmer 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted October 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) I'd say this one.. But then I think you're talking of Narrow gauge 4ft 8 1/2 inches.. I think you need to limit the question to 20th century built locomotives... there were many very small 19th century built locomotives that were very small.. Oh most of the small Sentinels would stand a chance in 4ft 8.5 inch gauge Edited October 21, 2020 by TheQ 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Some of the ex rail motor types were pretty small as well. The Southern C14 for instance. But the smallest conventional locos would surely have been 19thC Industrials. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 The Llanelly Steel Company (later Duport) had some specially built Barclays to work on the 'Landing' :- https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rcts.org.uk%2Fphotographs%2Farchive%2F380%2FFAI%2FFAI3487.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rcts.org.uk%2Ffeatures%2Farchive%2Fimage.htm%3Fimg%3DFAI3487%26jpg%3DFAI%2FFAI3487.jpg%26srch%3D%26page%3D2&tbnid=JxMavM9--X0KrM&vet=12ahUKEwjb6cb1msXsAhUPwoUKHRqsDXoQMygFegUIARCbAQ..i&docid=s0w0VUX0WjSZ2M&w=320&h=208&q=Llanelly Steel Locomotives&ved=2ahUKEwjb6cb1msXsAhUPwoUKHRqsDXoQMygFegUIARCbAQ 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Turnbull Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Sirapite is pretty small and still working today. This is it working on the Mid-Suffolk on 6th May 2019 Chris Turnbull 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, JimC said: The Southern C14 for instance. If you look at the vital statistics of a C14 it was a surprisingly large animal by the standards of the beasts under discussion here. They had a 12 Ton axle-load, which is light compared with many SG main-line locos, but by no means featherweight - a Terrier weighed only about 4 Tons more, and with three axles came in at c9 Ton axle-load, and even "big" Victorian contractors' engines were significantly smaller than a C14. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
soony Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Dougal , the Glasgow shunter working on the Welshpool Railway must be in the running . Looks like it could be picked up and dropped in a pocket. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Standard gauge ? ............ perhaps a visit to SpecSavers is called or ! 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Are we including tram engines? Some of those were tiny, especially the earlier ones. https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/beyer-peacock-company-works-no-2464-no-47-john-bull-0-4-0vb-tram/ 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Some of Mr Boulton's would fit here such as "Ant", "Little Grimsby", "Pugsy" and "Lion" https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112757-the-locomotives-of-boultons-siding/ Bagnall "wotton" Peckett "Teddy" https://locoyard.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/232-2013-national-railway-museum-york-the-great-gathering-peckett-and-sons-of-bristol-yorktown-class-2012-teddy.jpg Ruston 48DS https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_10_2016/post-14654-0-90172900-1477864262.jpg 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 ISTR some of the Neilson box tanks were pretty titchy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Nearholmer said: This doesn’t look all that small in side elevation, but it was effectively a typical KS Brazil class 24” or 30” gauge loco on SG, so was in fact very tiny https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-60478 Ah, there’s a picture here that makes very clear how low the cab roof was (I’m trying to embed as a link, which won’t work, so apologies to the owner of the photo) Talking of Kerr Stuart, when the 4'0" Saundersfoot Railway closed, its locomotive 'Bull Dog' was regauged to standard to work at a steelworks in Llanelli. That was even lower (having been designed to fit through the tunnel under Saundersfoot station). There was no rear pony truck, so the cab floor was as close to the track as it could be - IIRC the entire loco was only 6' tall! Edit: Pictures found online: h Edited October 21, 2020 by RJS1977 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Marsbar Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 This Andrew Barclay 0-4-0ST is fairly small as well... https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/andrew-barclay-works-no-1223-colin-macandrew-0-4-0st/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted October 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, RJS1977 said: Talking of Kerr Stuart, when the 4'0" Saundersfoot Railway closed, its locomotive 'Bull Dog' was regauged to standard to work at a steelworks in Llanelli. That was even lower (having been designed to fit through the tunnel under Saundersfoot station). There was no rear pony truck, so the cab floor was as close to the track as it could be - IIRC the entire loco was only 6' tall! I think that you would be right about that. The tunnel along the seafront does not have much headroom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said: I think that you would be right about that. The tunnel along the seafront does not have much headroom. Bull Dog wasn't used on the sea front section (the small, but not quite as small Manning Wardle 'Rosalind' was used there) - Bull Dog only ever operated above the incline, but this included the lengthy tunnel under the GWR station. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) Now we've wandered slightly and included a diesel, can I offer 'Titchie', a Motorail 40hp G series (I'm pretty sure, although the caption to the photo says 20hp) of typical 2ft gauge design expanded to standard gauge https://www.flickr.com/photos/36034969@N08/15347719448 I don't know if this mini-beast still exists, but I remember it almost brand-new being used to move single coaches about within Wolverton works yard. IIRC, it was sourced specially so that it and a coach would fit together on the traverser. It makes a Ruston 48hp look hooge. Mole Valley water Company had a ridiculously tiny but wide diesel loco too, for hauling covers out over filter beds IIRC. That i think was built by Alan Keef, but what the gauge was I can't be sure - I have a feeling that it might have been wider than standard gauge. Edited October 21, 2020 by Nearholmer 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w124bob Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, sir douglas said: Some of Mr Boulton's would fit here such as "Ant", "Little Grimsby", "Pugsy" and "Lion" https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112757-the-locomotives-of-boultons-siding/ Bagnall "wotton" Peckett "Teddy" https://locoyard.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/232-2013-national-railway-museum-york-the-great-gathering-peckett-and-sons-of-bristol-yorktown-class-2012-teddy.jpg Ruston 48DS https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_10_2016/post-14654-0-90172900-1477864262.jpg 416.35 kB · 0 downloads Teddy was actual named after the previous owner one Reverend Teddy Boston, it lived on a short length of standard gauge track at the vicarage in Cadeby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, RJS1977 said: Talking of Kerr Stuart, when the 4'0" Saundersfoot Railway closed, its locomotive 'Bull Dog' was regauged to standard to work at a steelworks in Llanelli. That was even lower (having been designed to fit through the tunnel under Saundersfoot station). There was no rear pony truck, so the cab floor was as close to the track as it could be - IIRC the entire loco was only 6' tall! Edit: Pictures found online: h This loco, along with Barclays and Pecketts of similar conception (though without cabs), worked on the 'landing', from which the open-hearth furnaces would be loaded with scrap, pig-iron and lime. Like pit-ponies, they only saw daylight for a couple of weeks a year, unless they needed repairs. At this time, the operator was the Llanelly Steel Company; a company called Duport took the works over in 1960. The steam locos were replaced by Clayton Equipment diesels in the late 1960s. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunningham Loco & Machine Works Posted October 21, 2020 Author Share Posted October 21, 2020 That little Barclay looks especially appealing, as does the Kerr Stuart, even if the latter is in an ugly-cute way*. The prospect of building standard gauge version of a narrow gauge design has given me the most perversely unorthodox ideas, i.e. a standard gauge version of Dougal. *Which somehow makes it even more appealing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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