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Smallest Standard Gauge Steam Locomotives?


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19 minutes ago, Cunningham Loco & Machine Works said:

Precisely what the title implies: what were some of the smallest standard gauge steam locomotives used in the UK? I ask because I wish to build a Gauge One model of one of these "little fellows".

Hi There,

 

I would take a guess at Peckett and Son's 1900:

 

https://www.brc-stockbook.co.uk/1900.htm

 

Gibbo.

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There were the Aveling and Porter series of standard gauge locomotives based on traction engines. AFAIK these were a bit ligher than the one off Pecket design, but it depends if you measure size by height, length, weight etc.

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This doesn’t look all that small in side elevation, but it was effectively a typical KS Brazil class 24” or 30” gauge loco on SG, so was in fact very tiny https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-60478

 

Ah, there’s a picture here that makes very clear how low the cab roof was  

LONDON TRANSPORT - L34 - City & South London Railway 'Brazil' Class 0-4-2ST - built 1922 by Kerr Stuart & Co. to London Underground loading gauge - 1930 to LT No.L34 -  worked on the extension of the Piccadilly line to Cockfosters. It then moved to Drapers Field, Leyton, where seen in 1947, to work on the Central line eastern extension. This work was completed in 1949, and the locomotive was then scrapped.

(I’m trying to embed as a link, which won’t work, so apologies to the owner of the photo)

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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I'd say this one..

image.png.ab8ef6927f64f718da199f4ecf68350b.png

 

But then I think you're talking of Narrow gauge 4ft 8 1/2 inches..

 

I think you need to limit the question to 20th century built locomotives... there were many very small 19th century built locomotives that were very small..

 

 Oh most of the small Sentinels would stand a chance in 4ft 8.5 inch gauge

Edited by TheQ
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1 hour ago, JimC said:

The Southern C14 for instance.

 

If you look at the vital statistics of a C14 it was a surprisingly large animal by the standards of the beasts under discussion here.

 

They had a 12 Ton axle-load, which is light compared with many SG main-line locos, but by no means featherweight - a Terrier weighed only about 4 Tons more, and with three axles came in at c9 Ton axle-load, and even "big" Victorian contractors' engines were significantly smaller than a C14.

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6 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

This doesn’t look all that small in side elevation, but it was effectively a typical KS Brazil class 24” or 30” gauge loco on SG, so was in fact very tiny https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-60478

 

Ah, there’s a picture here that makes very clear how low the cab roof was  

LONDON TRANSPORT - L34 - City & South London Railway 'Brazil' Class 0-4-2ST - built 1922 by Kerr Stuart & Co. to London Underground loading gauge - 1930 to LT No.L34 -  worked on the extension of the Piccadilly line to Cockfosters. It then moved to Drapers Field, Leyton, where seen in 1947, to work on the Central line eastern extension. This work was completed in 1949, and the locomotive was then scrapped.

(I’m trying to embed as a link, which won’t work, so apologies to the owner of the photo)

 

 

 

Talking of Kerr Stuart, when the 4'0" Saundersfoot Railway closed, its locomotive 'Bull Dog' was regauged to standard to work at a steelworks in Llanelli. That was even lower (having been designed to fit through the tunnel under Saundersfoot station). There was no rear pony truck, so the cab floor was as close to the track as it could be - IIRC the entire loco was only 6' tall!

 

Edit: Pictures found online:

 

hSaundersfoot-Railway-Archive-Album-002.j

 

Saundersfoot-Railway-User-Album-006.jpg

Edited by RJS1977
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9 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Talking of Kerr Stuart, when the 4'0" Saundersfoot Railway closed, its locomotive 'Bull Dog' was regauged to standard to work at a steelworks in Llanelli. That was even lower (having been designed to fit through the tunnel under Saundersfoot station). There was no rear pony truck, so the cab floor was as close to the track as it could be - IIRC the entire loco was only 6' tall!

 

I think that you would be right about that. The tunnel along the seafront does not have much headroom.

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3 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I think that you would be right about that. The tunnel along the seafront does not have much headroom.

 

Bull Dog wasn't used on the sea front section (the small, but not quite as small Manning Wardle 'Rosalind' was used there) - Bull Dog only ever operated above the incline, but this included the lengthy tunnel under the GWR station.

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Now we've wandered slightly and included a diesel, can I offer 'Titchie', a Motorail 40hp G series (I'm pretty sure, although the caption to the photo says 20hp) of typical 2ft gauge design expanded to standard gauge https://www.flickr.com/photos/36034969@N08/15347719448

 

I don't know if this mini-beast still exists, but I remember it almost brand-new being used to move single coaches about within Wolverton works yard. IIRC, it was sourced specially so that it and a coach would fit together on the traverser.

 

It makes a Ruston 48hp look hooge.

 

Mole Valley water Company had a ridiculously tiny but wide diesel loco too, for hauling covers out over filter beds IIRC. That i think was built by Alan Keef, but what the gauge was I can't be sure - I have a feeling that it might have been wider than standard gauge.

 

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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1 hour ago, sir douglas said:

Teddy was actual named after the previous owner one Reverend Teddy Boston, it lived on a short length of standard gauge track at the vicarage in Cadeby.

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1 hour ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Talking of Kerr Stuart, when the 4'0" Saundersfoot Railway closed, its locomotive 'Bull Dog' was regauged to standard to work at a steelworks in Llanelli. That was even lower (having been designed to fit through the tunnel under Saundersfoot station). There was no rear pony truck, so the cab floor was as close to the track as it could be - IIRC the entire loco was only 6' tall!

 

Edit: Pictures found online:

 

hSaundersfoot-Railway-Archive-Album-002.j

 

Saundersfoot-Railway-User-Album-006.jpg

This loco, along with Barclays and Pecketts of similar conception (though without cabs), worked on the 'landing', from which the open-hearth furnaces would be loaded with scrap, pig-iron and lime. Like pit-ponies, they only saw daylight for a couple of weeks a year, unless they needed repairs. At this time, the operator was the Llanelly Steel Company; a company called Duport took the works over in 1960. The steam locos were replaced by Clayton Equipment diesels in the late 1960s.

 

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That little Barclay looks especially appealing, as does the Kerr Stuart, even if the latter is in an ugly-cute way*. The prospect of building standard gauge version of a narrow gauge design has given me the most perversely unorthodox ideas, i.e. a standard gauge version of Dougal.

 

*Which somehow makes it even more appealing

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