Original TOPS issue BR vehicle diagram books for wagons

[HGR]

BORAILs BR 001A & B are a bit of an anomaly ... why they would have been allocated design codes ahead of the B.R. examples, instead of being coded after them as was the usual practice.

 

Also, BR 001B has the AARKND used for the BORAILs that looked more like BOPLATE - curb rails (very low sides as seen on some BOGIE BOLSTERs, etc.) and no bolsters, however the vehicle depicted clearly fits neither ? I seem to remember the same confusion occurring with certain bogie SALMON in the engineers fleet that some diagrams showed bolsters, but the wagons themselves had sides / curbs and no bolsters or vice versa.

 

BR 005A I think was the later vac braked version of B.R. diag. 482 and 483 that picked up this modification, but not sure what they were then used for ?

 

[SED Freightman]

Just a few of the requested F series appear in my copy of Book 320 (Part 2), FV 003A & FW 001A (Boflat) were in the loose diagram pile.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SED Freightman]

I have only found three of the requested diagrams from series H to M, all from my copy of Book 320 (Part 2).

 

 

 

[HGR]

19 hours ago, SED Freightman said:

Just a few of the requested F series appear in my copy of Book 320 (Part 2), FV 003A & FW 001A (Boflat) were in the loose diagram pile.

 

That's interesting ... your loose pile appears to be the holder of later diagrams.

 

The FV 003 A that you have scanned is the revision ISSUE 1 that put it into the MOTORAIL fleed (AARKND changed to FVW-M). I think the original version of this diagram from before 1983 was FVW-D ?

 

FW 001 A as a BOFLAT was the second holder of this Design Code, which was initially allocated to the CONFLAT I.S.O. conversions of RECTANKs. Not sure how long these lasted, for example if long enough to carry TOPS codes in service. The BOFLAT appears to be the fate of BOPLATEs that didn't get converted into CONFLAT 'E'.

 

Incidentally, while in amongst the hoppers, would you have any diagrams for HYV ? These would have been for ANHYDRITE hoppers, post 1983 re-coding after the 'U' group was disbanded. Presumably HY 001 A & B if both plain and roller bearing types lasted into that period ? They are conspicuously absent in the 1986 listing though.

 

  

[SED Freightman]

What you (HGR) say about the loose diagrams being newer is interesting as I was starting to reach that conclusion myself, although some of my 'loose' diagrams are in the cover of a Freight Stock (B) Book, Part 1, these do appear to be old diagrams removed from Book 320.

 

I cannot find any copies of HY 001A & B.

 

So here are the last of the requested diagrams, those missing are missing, whilst ST 009N, VB 003C & VB 003E are from the loose pile.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HGR]

3 hours ago, SED Freightman said:

What you (HGR) say about the loose diagrams being newer is interesting as I was starting to reach that conclusion myself, although some of my 'loose' diagrams are in the cover of a Freight Stock (B) Book, Part 1, these do appear to be old diagrams removed from Book 320.

 

I cannot find any copies of HY 001A & B.

 

So here are the last of the requested diagrams, those missing are missing, whilst ST 009N, VB 003C & VB 003E are from the loose pile.

 

Thanks SED Freightman for all your help with these. 

 

The locomotive diagram books usefully had the issue date shown on each individual diagram page. Unfortunately the various carriage and wagon diagram books didn't. However there are some clues of the rough vintage of a diagram based on the layout of presentation of the information on it, as the style applied by the drawing office changed a few times over the years. By way of example, the diagram for ST 009N is in the last format to come out of BR.

 

Originally, the load or carrying capacity of a wagon was the quoted figure on diagrams and on the cast identification plates on the wagon solebar. For vehicles that carried no notional load - brake vans / runners, etc. the tare weight would be stated. Coaching stock is similarly plated by the tare weight, disregarding the potential weight of carried passengers and their luggage.

 

Originally, pre-1973 and thus just in time for TOPS, weights were in Imperial Tons (denoted by upper-case 'T'). We went Metric in around 1973 and the weights were recalculated in Metric tonnes (lower-case 't'). A Ton is slightly heavier, being 1.016 tonnes. The upshot of this is all of those seemingly obscure instances of the extra 0.5 t that appeared after many of the new vehicle weights. Up to and including 15 T, it's the same in Metric. From 16 T to 44 T you add 0.5 t to get the equivalent Metric, so 16 T  MIN became 16.5 t, brake vans became 20.5 t, etc. For 45 T upwards, add a whole tonne, so 50 T  STURGEON becomes 51 t. And so on, till finally, for 100 T, add two whole tonnes. There is a method this is based upon as the weights are always rounded up to the nearest half tonne. So far as I can find, all TOPS diagrams that were originally allocated codes in 1970 / 1971 and hence were given in Imperial Tons, but the diagrams themselves were not drawn up until 1973 / 1974 by which time they were Metric.

 

Later, there was a change from quoting load / carrying capacity to instead quote the gross laden weight (G.L.W.) of the vehicle, that being load plus tare weight. So more recent issues of diagrams list GLW in the title after the vehicle type. Most of the stock in the air braked number series are typically presented this way, as in the COV  AB  vans above. So looking again at what was originally a 22 T  TUBE wagon in diagram ST 009N, this would be plated 22.5 t in metric, but the diagram lists it now as 34 t GLW right up front before the vehicle type as it's quite a late variant of the wagon, though not had a look yet to see what change brought this particular variant about.

 

 

    

[HGR]

Just noticed, someone has added B.R. Freight Stock Diagram Book (B) parts 1 and 3 on Barrowmore MRG web-site. Initial look through these are that they have been updated to quite a late version so don't include the obsolescent diagrams. These two parts covering BA - CH and JA - SP.

 

[darren chpamn]

Do you have the later departmental diagram  book 

As looking for diagrams drawing on ex parrot cable drum carriers

Edited January 7, 2021 by darren chpamn

[HGR]

19 hours ago, darren chpamn said:

Do you have the later departmental diagram  book 

As looking for diagrams drawing on ex parrot cable drum carriers

The diagrams for the ex. PARROT conversions that were YV 503 and YV 504 were not drawn up and issued far as I know. The conversions were carried out just as the TOPS codes were being allocated, and would have been in Book 350, which covered the Departmental / Service vehicles.

 

There were two basic types - one had supports for two cable drums, the other had three, which could hold a larger cable drum on the middle support and smaller drums on the outer supports.

 

[jonhall]

On 26/11/2020 at 10:12, HGR said:

It's a MS Excel file, but noticed that the file attach on these posts includes them, so should be OK. Might do a 'print' of it as well as PDF in case there are people who don't have (or dislike) MS Excel.

 

What it does do is highlight some of the anomalies in the diagrams - see for example VV 009C ... AARKND is VVVV (not VVVC as you might expect given the type of vac brake fitted). This may well be a typo, as there was no VVV-V on the RSL vehicle type lists as far as I'm aware ?

 

I'm trying to get it up to the codes around in the '90s, which is about where my involvement in these sorts of things got to. Once it's pretty much done I'll post it.

 

 

HGR please can you post your XL index? I'm starting to think about indexing mine, and need a head start!

 

Thanks

 

Jon

[HGR]

On 13/02/2021 at 17:47, jonhall said:

 

HGR please can you post your XL index? I'm starting to think about indexing mine, and need a head start!

 

Thanks

 

Jon

Will do - should be able to get onto the right PC tomorrow.

 

I'm still in the middle of rearranging the lists for the B.R. books 1, 2 & 4. If it's the TOPS list you're mainly interested in, I have all the freight stock codes listed (that I'm aware of), but not put the coaching stock in yet.

 

[jonhall]

2 hours ago, HGR said:

Will do - should be able to get onto the right PC tomorrow.

 

I'm still in the middle of rearranging the lists for the B.R. books 1, 2 & 4. If it's the TOPS list you're mainly interested in, I have all the freight stock codes listed (that I'm aware of), but not put the coaching stock in yet.

 

 

Yes please - My interest is only in the wagons, but from all the eras of books.

 

Thanks

 

Jon

[HGR]

Ever set away to do something that on the face of it should be a fairly simple tweak to a spreadsheet, only for the 'computer says no' to fight back. Anyway, attached file lists the B.R. and TOPS Diagram Book pages. Be mindful it's most definitely a work in progress job, I will post updates when I put more info into it.

 

I will post a Word doc later that explains the colour coding and abbreviations / conventions used.

 

Please bear in mind it's taken me a while to collate this information, so do not use it for commercial gain. It's for personal research only.

 

 

Dia Bk Index.xls