Tri-ang Railways and Tri-ang Hornby "Smoking" Locos.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Tri-ang Railways and Tri-ang Hornby "Smoking" Locos.

 

Tri-ang Railways first marketed Smoke Unit fitted model locomotives in 1961, using patented technology from Seuthe in Western Germany.

 

These early smoke units, sold separately as R.520, later as RT.520 when also fitted to some TT Gauge locos, were brass tubes, with a heating element inside. A wire from the bottom of the element was wired in parrallel to the loco motor, so the amount of voltage, and therefore heat was governed by the speed control setting.

The "Smoke Pipe" (which is a very thin tube, a bit like a hyperdermic needle) takes the vaporised oil (smoke) up and out of the top of the unit, and the chimney.
The smoke was expelled by the smoke pipe in "puffs" that were not synchronised to the driving wheel speed, and continued for a short time after the loco was stopped.

 

These Smoke Pipes can get blocked.
 

3 Amp Fusewire is said by Tri-ang Railways to be the right diameter to rod out a Smoke Pipe, if the special cleaning tool S.5995 isn’t available.

 

I have used a strand of electric wire...

 

Removing the Smoke Pipe from Seuthe type units and cleaning it every so often is a good idea, though you have to be careful to get it the right way up putting it back!...

The angled end is the bottom end...

The Smoke Pipes can also fall out of the unit if the locomotive is turned upside down! So be aware!

New locomotives had a label over the chimney to stop this happening in transit...
 

 

 

 

 

Seuthe are still trading today, and make a wide variety of smoke units for locomotives, and buildings, etc.

 

 

They also still make the Smoke Oil...

 

In 1964, the Seuthe units were mainly replaced by the introduction of Synchrosmoke. (Earlier known as various spellings, Synkro-smoke, etc...)

 

This was Tri-ang Railways own design, and was designed after seeing a Mr. Fry of Ireland's smoking locomotives. He wanted a good up-front payment  to disclose his design, so the "men from Margate" went away and came up with their own design.

 

This used a cast metal box, with a piston in a cylinder, driven by a gear wheel by the motor worm, to push air into the box.

The box contained a wadding material, and on top of this was a heating element, that looks a little like a fuse, with a metal conducting cap on each end.

The element was wired in parallel to the loco motor, so the amount of voltage, and therefore heat was governed by the speed control setting.
The forced air expelled the smoke in "puffs" that were synchronised to the driving wheel speed by the gear drive.

 

Complicated to describe, but it works!

 

There were two main "Box" castings" Long" X.391, and "Short", X.392.

 

The long one was used in the 4-6-2 locos, with different holes in the lid for the different chimney positions.

 

 

The short one was used in the tank locos, and the R.150S B12 4-6-0, with different lids and extensions.

 

 

 

 

The smoke oil has come in a variety of plastic tubes and sachets over the years. The last Hornby issue I have seen was a small plastic "pot" with a screw lid (R.8111).

 

 

Hornby earlier supplied Smoke Oil as R.521 in a white sachet.

 

 

For the ultimate in originallity... the Tri-ang branded Seuthe oil can be found for sale on the internet...

 

Most of the smoke oil plastic tubes were marked in various colours:-

Tri-ang Seuthe Smoke Pat. Made in W. Germany. 
 

 

Until the Hornby "Pot", the various packs of Smoke Oil had the part number R.521, including the sachets sold by Hornby to go with the later Smoke fitted locos, that use a plastic smoke unit, including the 4-4-0s (Schools, Midland Compound, County, Hunt) and the GWR 2-8-0 Goods Loco. These plastic units are prone to overheat if run without oil for any length of time...

 

 

These used a syringe with a plastic spout to transfer the oil to the unit.

 

 

Some Tri-ang Railways locomotives came with a real glass "pipette" to be used as a filling "funnel".

 

Some locomotives came with a plastic funnel. These came in a variety of colours.

 

Some Examples of Seuthe Type smoke unit fitted locomotives.

 

R.52S B.R. "Jinty" 0-6-0 Tank Locos (1961-1963)

 

R.53S B.R. Green Princess Royal class 8p 4-6-2 Tender Locos (1961-1962)

 

R.54S "T.C. Series" Transcontinental Pacific Tender Locos.(1961-1963)

 

R.59S B.R. Class 3MT 2-6-2 Tank Locos (1961-1963)

 

R.150S B.R. B12 4-6-0 Tender Locos (1961-1964)

 

R.251S B.R. Lined Black "Deeley" Class 3F 0-6-0 Tender Locos (1961-1964)

 

R.258S B.R. Lined Maroon Princess Royal class 8p 4-6-2 Tender Locos (1961-1963)

 

R.259S B.R. Britannia Class 7 4-6-2 Tender locos (1961-1964)

 

R.350S B.R. Class L1 4-4-0 Tender Locos (1961-1963)

 

R.354S "Lord Of The Isles" 4-2-2 Tender Loco (1961-1962)

 

R.356S B.R. Battle of Britain Class 4-6-2 Tender Locos (1961-1963)

 

R.358S "T.C. Series" "Davey Crockett" Western 2-6-0 Locos (1962-1965)

 

R.651S  "Rocket" locomotive. (1963-1966)

etc...

 

 

Some Examples of Synchrosmoke fitted locomotives.

 

R.51S G.W.R. 0-6-0 Pannier Tank Locos (1972)

 

R.051 G.W.R. 0-6-0 Pannier Tank Locos (1973-1974)

 

R.52S B.R. "Jinty" 0-6-0 Tank Locos (1964-1972)

 

R.052 B.R. "Jinty" 0-6-0 Tank Locos (1973-1975)

 

R.52AS L.M.S. Maroon "Jinty" 0-6-0 Tank Locos (1970-1973)

R.52RS L.M.S. Maroon "Jinty" 0-6-0 Tank Locos (1970-1973)

R.54S  "T.C. Series" Transcontinental Pacific Tender Locos.(1964-1970)

 

R.54NS  "T.C. Series" Transcontinental Pacific Tender Locos. "1542" late production models with 8-wheel "Gresley" "Flying Scotsman" Non Corridor Type tender fitted with Exhaust Steam Sound (1971-1973)

 

R.59S  B.R. Class 3MT 2-6-2 Tank Locos (1969-1972)

 

R.150S  B.R. B12 4-6-0 Tender Locos (1964-1969)

R.150NS  N.E. Black "7476" B12 4-6-0 Tender Locos (1976-1978)

 

R.251S  B.R. Lined Black "Deeley" Class 3F 0-6-0 Tender Locos (1964-1965)

 

R.259S  B.R. Britannia Class 7 4-6-2 Tender locos (1964-1970)

 

R.259NS  B.R. Britannia Class 7 4-6-2 Tender locos with Exhaust Steam Sound (1971-1972)

R.258S  B.R. Lined Maroon Princess Royal class 8p 4-6-2 Tender Locos (1964 & 1969)

 

R.258S  L.M.S. Maroon Princess Royal class 8p 4-6-2 Tender Locos (1970)

R.258NS  L.M.S. Maroon Princess Royal class 8p 4-6-2 Tender Locos (1971-1974)

 

R.356S  B.R. Battle of Britain Class 4-6-2 Tender Locos (1964-1969)

R.377S  G.N.S.R. Brown "Jinty" 0-6-0 Tank Locos from  “The Railway Children Train Set”. (1970-1972)

 

R.452  L.M.S. Maroon "Jinty" 0-6-0 Tank Locos (1973-1974)

R.558S  Battle Space Khaki "Jinty" 0-6-0 Tank Locos from Train Sets. (1966-1967)

R.661S  Weathered B.R. Lined Black "Deeley" Class 3F 0-6-0 Tender Locos from the “Old Smokey” Train Set.  (1965)

R.653S  "T.C. Series" Continental "Prairie" 2-6-2 Tank Loco (Red frames and wheels, two domes) (1969)

 

R.866S  L.N.E.R. Green B12 4-6-0 Tender Locos (1970)

R.866NS  L.N.E.R. Green B12 4-6-0 Tender Locos with Exhaust Steam Sound (1971-1974)

R.869S  S.R. Battle of Britain Class 4-6-2 Tender Locos (1969-1972)

etc...

 

 

From the instruction leaflet supplied with Synchrosmoke (Post 1964) smoke fitted models, 1969 edition...

 

——————————————————————

 

Tri-ang Hornby

Model Railways

SYNCHROSMOKE
(British Patent No. 961630)

OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS

Pierce the narrow end of the capsule of smoke oil with a household pin.
Place the filling funnel in the chimney of the locomotive.
Hold the capsule over the funnel and squeeze the capsule so that seven or eight drops of smoke oil pass through the hole in the cover of the smoke generator beneath. DO NOT OVERFILL.

It is important that the fluid enters the generator and does not run over the body or chassis of the locomotive.
In the case of locomotives R.259S, R.356S, and R.869S the reservoir is longer and four or five more drops may be added, if so desired, in order to give a longer run between refills.

Blow gently into the top of filling funnel and then remove it from the chimney. Replace pin in oil capsule.

Start the locomotive and run in the usual way.
After the train has been in motion for a few seconds, smoke should appear and continue to be discharged from the chimney, while the model is travelling, until the supply of oil in the generator is exhausted.
Best results will be obtained if the locomotive is run at a good speed.

Additional supplies of smoke oil are available under reference number R.521.

MAINTENANCE

If, after a period of use, the smoke generator fails to operate when supplied with smoke oil, the element may need replacing.
Elements are available as spare parts under reference number X.549.
To fit an element, the body of the locomotive should be removed from the chassis. Next the lid of the smoke generator must be lifted off. In the case of models R.259S, R.366S and R.869S the screw in the centre must be withdrawn to release the lid, but in other models it is only a press fit. The screw (where fitted) retains the complete smoke generator in position on the chassis and care must be taken not to dislodge the unit whilst the screw is removed. For locomotives R.59S and R.653S the complete top section of the smoke unit must be removed.
The cartridge-type element may be lifted out and the replacement inserted in its place.
Any filling material, which may have been removed with the old element, should be repacked below element level before the new element is inserted. The element should be well pressed down into position, to make good contact at both ends, before refitting the lid. In R.259S, R.366S and R.869S the screw and the brass tag eyelet must be replaced correctly, before refitting the body.

SPARE PARTS

Spare Parts may be obtained either from Tri-ang Hornby model railway stockists or direct from the factory.

Made in Great Britain by

ROVEX TRI-ANG LIMITED WESTWOOD, MARGATE, KENT

 

 

——————————————————————

These days, spare parts, sometimes including the X.549 Elements, can be found on Ebay, and other places... 

 

 

The last "Hornby Railways” smoke unit was made from plastic (!) and is the one that can cause most damage if run too long without oil. The unit itself can melt, and the heat can damage the body.

The other Tri-ang Railways and Tri-ang Hornby Units are made from metal, and are more robust.

The Seuthe type can get hot, as the whole unit gets warm.

The Synchrosmoke units are more likely to burn out the element (which is removeable) if run too long without oil.

So, if you are worried about running without smoke oil, you can wire a switch in the loco to turn the smoke unit off...or with the Synchrosmoke unit, remove the element...

Cleaning the oil out is not really neccesary, as the Synchrosmoke unit has a fibre wadding for the oil to soak into...

 

Smoke Oil for these units is available from various retailers. (Including Gaugemaster who are Seuthe Stockists...)

One Brand Name to look for is Seuthe, who made the Smoke Oil used by Tri-ang Hornby for many years (Sold as R.521).

Old Stock Smoke Oil, R.521, is also sometimes available on Ebay...

 

 

There were also some items in the Minic Motorways range fitted with the Seuthe Type smoke units.

 

M.1807  Bungalow with Automatic Garage and smoking chimney.

 

M.1564S  Steam Lorry with smoke.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Ruffnut Thorston
Housekeeping / more added

[russ p]

The early Hornby 25s if not all of them had a space on the glazing unit for what looked like a Seuthe

smoke unit 

[Silverfox17]

As a child when these first came out I enjoyed the gimmick but soon stopped as I did not like the residue of oil on the  coach roofs etc afterwards. I soon disconnected then and still do to this day if I buy a loco with one fitted. 

 

One problem with the original was the wire was prone to breaking at the end of the resin on the base of the tube and you could not file the resin down to get to the wire end to resolder. 

 

Garry 

[Il Grifone]

Thanks Sarah, that's very informative! 

 

The smoke oil attacks the plastic and the unit can overheat and melt it.

 

I was very annoyed when this gimmick first appeared, as I needed a Tri-ang R.59 2-6-2T chassis to motorise a Kitmaster Prairie kit*. It resulted in a roughly 50% increase in the cost of the project (the  thing added about £1 to the price of the locomotives). IMHO the effect is nothing like the exhaust of a real steam locomotive which is normally dense and white (or black if you are American!)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrxPpKzsDn8&ab_channel=airailimages

 

You could possibly use a Tri-ang unit to represent this (both train engine and diesel ballast weight), but she is not working very hard and its still not quite the same. They obviously had to include the diesel to make sure she didn't go too fast!

There's even a Tri-ang 2nd series observation car in the consist.

 

* I could have saved money and bought a Farish one ready made, especially since the finished model was a failure....

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Il Grifone

[Brit70053]

Thanks for posting this Sarah, I found it very nostalgic reminding me of when I got my R259S Britannia for Christmas 1964.  It was fitted with the Seuthe Smoke Unit as detailed above and I think I spent more time reading and re reading the detailed instructions for the smoke unit than I did running the loco at first, trying to avoid causing any damage to the model.

Capsules of smoke oil were available from two local toy shops, but I found it quite expensive to fund out of  my pocket money (2/- [10p] a week).  The element was of course the part most vulnerable to loss and damage, but the demise of the smoke unit after about 2 years was due to experimenting with oil other than the Seuthe product. Not a wise move  and a false economy as the element eventually burned out, though fortunately no damage to the loco body shell was sustained (at that time). The loco continued in service minus the 'S' and I still have it  though 'Trigger's Broom' applies - only the chassis block and pony truck are now from the original model due to accidental damage and upgrading over the years.

                 Happy days and memories.

 

                  Regards,

                                     John

 

[GoingUnderground]

My "Princess Elizabeth", bought in 1961, came with a red plastic plug/cap covering the chimney to stop the smoke pipe falling out if the new owner, me, turned it upside down. The plug was held in place with an elastic band which was kept in place on the plug by the slot in the top of the plug, like a screw head.

[roythebus]

when the Hymek first came out I got one as I worked in Patricks Toy Shop in Fulham. I was jsut getting into "doctoring" things so did some mods on it.

 

I fitted it with Trix AL1 driving wheels on the motor bogie complete with rubber tyres on one side, a Triang X500 inside to make a diesel engine noise, and a Suethe Triang smoke unit. that of course made smoke come out of the exhuast, the X500 would run on very low volts so ran when the main motor didn't.

 

With the rubber tyres it would pull the house down. The trouble then with a very heavy train on the MRC's test track was the smoke effect. Originally we thought it was the smoke unit, but found it was the plastic brush holder on the motor that was melting! I sold the loco to  friend many years ago but re-acquired it a few years after. I sold it about 8 years ago on ebay, still running but with a standard Hymek wheel set!

 

[GoingUnderground]

On 24/10/2020 at 21:48, Ruffnut Thorston said:

Tri-ang Railways and Tri-ang Hornby "Smoking" Locos.

 

 

 

........The first Seuthe type used a real glass "pipette" as a filling "funnel".

 

Later a platic funnel was used.......

 

 

The above comment that Seuthe smoke units used a glass funnel does not appear to be correct.

 

Triang locos with the Seuthe smoke unit were supplied with a plastic funnel, as shown in the above service sheet. This is borne out by my own personal experience of buying a New R.52S Princess loco factory fitted with a Seuthe smoke unit in May 1961. The loco may well have been made before the above service sheet was published. The loco was equipped with a Seuthe unit and had a black plastic funnel of the type shown in the service sheet.

 

Posts from other members in this topic https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/159163-triang-Hornby-smoke-element/page/2/

who bought/received locos equipped with the Triang designed Synchrosmoke unit from 1964 and later confirmed that the glass funnels were supplied with their locos.

[sandwich station]

2 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

 

The above comment that Seuthe smoke units used a glass funnel does not appear to be correct.

 

I have a glass funnel somewhere which came with a Triang loco.

 

My Triang Hornby locos with synchrosmoke units came with plastic funnels or light blue or yellow plastic.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

11 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

 

The above comment that Seuthe smoke units used a glass funnel does not appear to be correct.

 

Triang locos with the Seuthe smoke unit were supplied with a plastic funnel, as shown in the above service sheet. This is borne out by my own personal experience of buying a New R.52S Princess loco factory fitted with a Seuthe smoke unit in May 1961. The loco may well have been made before the above service sheet was published. The loco was equipped with a Seuthe unit and had a black plastic funnel of the type shown in the service sheet.

 

Posts from other members in this topic https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/159163-triang-Hornby-smoke-element/page/2/

who bought/received locos equipped with the Triang designed Synchrosmoke unit from 1964 and later confirmed that the glass funnels were supplied with their locos.

Fully covered in the linked topic....

[GoingUnderground]

6 hours ago, sandwich station said:

 

I have a glass funnel somewhere which came with a Triang loco.

 

My Triang Hornby locos with synchrosmoke units came with plastic funnels or light blue or yellow plastic.

That doesn't invalitate my contention that plastic came before glass.

 

The original statement by Ruffnut was that the sequence was glass then plastic. This was based on the discovery of a quantity of glass funnels with some other items acquired from a former service agent, which in the absence of information to the contrary, were then assumed to predate the plastic funnels as follows:.

 

"Well, it is possible that I am mistaken in the chronology...

The service sheet is from May 1961.

Seuthe smoke unit fitted locos were officially available from January 1961.

I would expect manufacturing of the Seuthe type chassis locos to have started in December 1959.

My reasoning is that a glass pipette is a dangerous thing to have as a part of a toy. Therefore I would think that it was quickly replaced by the plastic funnel.

But stock already at dealers would possibly not be recalled, and so the glass pipettes would still be out there?

I seem to recall that there is no mention of the glass pipettes in Pat Hammonds books?

Our books aren’t to hand just now. 

I was quite surprised to find a quantity of the glass pipettes in the parts we inherited from a retired Tri-ang Service Dealer. I hadn’t known of them before then."

 

However, personal experience of RMWebbers supports my view based on my own personal experience of buying a Princess Elizabeth with smoke in May 1961 that the glass funnels were very unlikely to have been used before the plastic ones, but were introduced sometime around the changeover from Seuthe to Synkrosmoke/Synchrosmoke units.

 

The changeover date between plastic and glass funnels may well not have happened at exactly same time as the change to Synkrosmoke/Synchrosmoke, that probably depended on the stock level of plastic funnels when production of locos with Synkrosmoke started unless glass was felt to be necessary for the Synkro units. Or glass could have been a temporary measure sometime in 64 or65 whilst the funnel tool was repaired.

 

Having a Triang Railways branded loco with a glass funnel is perfectly possible as those would have been produced from some time in 1964 through to around May 65 when the Triang Hornby branding was introduced. Again the change-over date won't be exact as it all depends on when Triang Hornby branded boxes were first used which may well vary between box sizes as existing Triang railways box stocks seem, judging from comments by Pat Hammond of Triang Hornby era locos being found in correctly labelled Triang Railways boxes, to have been used up first.

 

It seems clear that at some point after the introduction of Synkrosmoke/Synchrosmoke that the plastic funnels were reintroduced. The reasons for the change back to plastic, the timing of the change, and whether glass was for a time still used in parallel for certain models and for how long such parallel production might have happened are open questions. All contributions gratefully received.

 

And I would like to thank Ruffnut for the invaluable input into this debate over what is a very, very minor detail of the history of Rovex products.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Here is a thought.

 

Tri-ang marketed the Lionel Science Kits for a period around 1963.

 

 

I wonder if any of these sets included glass pipettes?

 

Possibly a source, as the sets didn’t sell very well, and maybe it was a way of using up the stock?

 

This would be around 1963-4, when Synchrosmoke units were being introduced...

 

Whatever, I am certain that later, certainly the 1970s,  Synchrosmoke fitted locos came with plastic funnels.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Ruffnut Thorston
Typo ...image added

[GoingUnderground]

2 hours ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

Here is a thought.

 

Tri-ang marketed the Lionel Science Kits for a period around 1963.

 

 

I wonder if any of these sets included glass pipettes?

 

Possibly a source, as the sets didn’t sell very well, and maybe it was a way of using up the stock?

 

This would be around 1963-4, when Synchrosmoke units were being introduced...

 

Whatever, I am certain that later, certainly the 1970s,  Synchrosmoke fitted locos came with plastic funnels.

Scavenged dropper pipettes from the Lionel sets is a possibility. But looking through the 1963 9th edition catalogue most of the Triang Lionel Science sets would not have contained a dropper pipette. The only ones that might have are the two plastics engineering sets, which look to have various glass vessels and containers. So the number of the Triang Lionel sets with the glass pipettes would be quite small compared to the number of locos with smoke being produced, and the labour cost of opening the box and removing the pipette would probably have been more than the cost of the pipette retrieved. With bits missing the sets wouldn't be particularly sellable.

 

Certainly Synchrosmoke locos did come with plastic funnels later in their lifespan, there's first hand accounts from RMWebbers that they did. No one is arguing that they didn't.

 

However, there is no evidence so far that shows that Seuthe equipped locos ever came with glass funnels, but plenty that the first Synkrosmoke locos did.

 

But let's move on.

Edited May 28, 2021 by GoingUnderground