I have so many ideas I don't know were to start.

[Newmodeller96]

Hi Everyone. I am very new to modelling but have had a Hornby set for about 10 years. I now have the space to build a layout in my loft. 

 

However I have had so many ideas that I don't know where to begin with putting it all together to create my layout. 

 

I have attached a picture of the size of the space that I have. I am modelling in OO gauge.

 

I think I have narrowed it down to the following that I want to include:

 

- Period - 1980s - modern south england 

- Mixture of small freight and passenger

- Medium Size TMD / Goods Yard

- Small station big enough for 2/3 car EMUs. 

 

In terms of location I am easy and just willing to learn all the modelling techniques that I might need. 

 

Maybe a multi level layout could work? 

 

Please help as my mind is scrambled at the moment with so many ideas. 

 

Many Thanks

Henry

 

[Zomboid]

Do you have access all round that whole space? Or does it have to house both the layout and you?

[Newmodeller96]

19 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

Do you have access all round that whole space? Or does it have to house both the layout and you?

I have attached another photo of the areas I can access from. The layout doesn’t have to fill the whole space as I haven’t yet made the baseboard.

[Chimer]

Given your reply to @Zomboid, the whole of the left hand side of the plan is completely out of reach, and there isn't enough room for a sensible operating well down the middle.  I would say the sensible max width for the boards down the left is 750mm ...... the obvious follow-up question is to enquire if there is any possibility of at least a narrow shelf down the far right hand side of the plan to enable you to complete a roundy-roundy, if that features in your thinking at all.  If not, we're looking at a fairly simple 3.3m x 2m L shape with an extra bit (1.1 x .3) tacked on in the hardest-to-reach top left corner.

 

Hope that makes sense ....

[Newmodeller96]

5 minutes ago, Chimer said:

Given your reply to @Zomboid, the whole of the left hand side of the plan is completely out of reach, and there isn't enough room for a sensible operating well down the middle.  I would say the sensible max width for the boards down the left is 750mm ...... the obvious follow-up question is to enquire if there is any possibility of at least a narrow shelf down the far right hand side of the plan to enable you to complete a roundy-roundy, if that features in your thinking at all.  If not, we're looking at a fairly simple 3.3m x 2m L shape with an extra bit (1.1 x .3) tacked on in the hardest-to-reach top left corner.

 

Hope that makes sense ....

Unfortunately I can’t add anything on the right hand side as that is the other side of the loft where we still have storage.

[The Stationmaster]

You won't be able to reach across 1.36 metres for either construction or maintenance.  So one thing you need to do is check your own comfortable length of reach and ability to work before deciding on the width of site you will actually be able to use.

 

What I would suggest is that having established what sort of site is available to you the next thing you need to do is think very carefully about what sort of railway you want.  You can study teh prototype world through books, magazines, and online to gain ideas or perhaps pick up themes.  And such study might influence the way you think about planning your track layout but is very likely to help you think clearly about what you want to model.  The next step is them to look at various layout plan books which can give you an idea on track layouts and, very imp[ortantly, how they fit into a given space.

 

But above all what you need to decide is what sort of railway you want and then check if you can fit it into teh space you jhave available.  If you don't have the space for it go through the process again to find another theme or idea which appeals to. 

[Zomboid]

I've posted this a couple of times already in other threads, but at about 3600 X 1200 it'll fit pretty well into your space.

 

It probably isn't exactly what you're after, but as a concept it might have legs.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Zomboid

[The Stationmaster]

2 minutes ago, Newmodeller96 said:

Unfortunately I can’t add anything on the right hand side as that is the other side of the loft where we still have storage.

Can you build part of your layout - storage sidings if nothing more - on a shelf above the storaghe area?

[Flying Pig]

18 hours ago, Zomboid said:

I've posted this a couple of times already in other threads, but at about 3600 X 1200 it'll fit pretty well into your space.

 

It probably isn't exactly what you're after, but as a concept it might have legs.

 

Very nice - I wouldn't have thought it would fit the space here but it pretty much does.  Could perhaps be reworked with cribs from Colin Parks' lovely Newhaven Harbour which had a relatively simple trackplan but loads of Southern character.

 

 

 

 

[Pete the Elaner]

21 hours ago, Newmodeller96 said:

 

- Period - 1980s - modern south england 

- Mixture of small freight and passenger

- Medium Size TMD / Goods Yard

- Small station big enough for 2/3 car EMUs. 

 

 

From another aspect, having a clear idea of what you want may help the plan to take shape.

What type of freight/goods yard do you want? The stereotypical mixed goods yard disappeared in the 1960s but dedicated facilities remain close to some stations, maybe for a coal merchants or oil suppliers, or maybe a fuelling point (the oil will have to be delivered).

If you want a fuelling point, you may want an excuse for the locos to re-fuel there rather than elsewhere.

[Newmodeller96]

22 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Very nice - I wouldn't have thought it would fit the space here but it pretty much does.  Could perhaps be reworked with cribs from Colin Parks' lovely Newhaven Harbour which had a relatively simple trackplan but loads of Southern character.

 

 

 

 

@Flying Pig this is definitely closer to what I was thinking in my head but with a medium sized TMD live on the layout. Thank you :) H

[Newmodeller96]

Have done a bit of work this week on how to fit the layout better in the layout. 
 

I have come up with this U shape board that has just enough space in the middle for me to move around. I guess I could also close off the bottom part of the board so that I have space for a full loop layout.

 

any ideas for how to use the space would be amazing. 
 

 

[Chimer]

In my opinion, it would be far better to have a single 800mm (ish) board than those two skinny ones with no room to breathe between them.  Which is of course no help to you at all .....

[Harlequin]

I think the shape of the space is too complicated to make full use of. You'd do better to think about simpler baseboards with more usable proportions. Here are two suggestions (although it's not a good idea to start any layout design from baseboard shapes!)

 

L shaped terminus to fiddle yard:

 

Roundy-roundy with the smallest practical width operating well (610mm) but no fiddle yard:

 

 

[DCB]

 

On 31/10/2020 at 12:29, Newmodeller96 said:

Have done a bit of work this week on how to fit the layout better in the layout. 
 

I have come up with this U shape board that has just enough space in the middle for me to move around. I guess I could also close off the bottom part of the board so that I have space for a full loop layout.

 

any ideas for how to use the space would be amazing. 
 

I am wondering if there is enough room to actually stand to operate in the operating slot/well.

The requirements, as in no steam just bogie locos and MU stock make a spiral or two doable in that width of baseboard so a low level FY is definitely on , or indeed a dumbell layout with two FYs one above the other, I am thinking Harlequins round roundy baseboard, thin side lifts and has station platforms on it, with EMU Carriage depot on the wider side with 2nd/3rd radius spirals both ends down to return loops, I haven't made it work in anyrail yet as I can't get enough  FY loop length.  Spiral for lower FY goes through middle of upper return loop.  Very weird but who wants something like 500 other people have?   OK bad analogy, but its 5am and kip time.   Edit, schematic drawing iof top and middle levels. Track to TMD (or Terminus) is level or climbs slightly spiral drops inside it.  Carriage washer. Short sidings for locos long for EMUs   Main operating position outside the lifting section hole in right spiral for duck under and up access to top RH corner as much for tracklaying as anything, LH spiralopen on inside for duck under access for derailments track cleaning etc.   Curves overlap end of baseboard slightly but corner can be rounded to compensate .  Should be fun to operate with Diesels and EMUs etc. Forget steam, they will never get up the spirals unless you buy a Wrenn WC or Bob.

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by DavidCBroad

[Glob-Ally]

Hi Henry, I’m also a relative newbie (you can see my own thread a page or so further down this board) and so other people are far better qualified than me to comment on your space. But your thread title jumped out at me! Mainly because I can empathise! That’s exactly how I felt a couple of months back. In case it helps the way I broke through feeling overwhelmed was to focus less on the list of features I wanted on my layout and more about how I wanted it to operate. I’ve then been able to work backwards from this in planning. In your posts I don’t think I’ve seen anything about what you think on this front. Will it just be you operating or with others? Do you want to set things rolling and then sit back and watch? Or be actively involved in driving/signalling/shunting? Does it matter to you if something doesn’t look prototypical? Do you mind seeing the same train repeatedly or do you want things to move on and off scene? Do you want a sense of trains going places? Even how long at a time do you want to operate for in one go will be relevant to how small a gap you’re willing to squeeze in to! Based on my own experience I think if you’re able to add a bit on these questions you’ll be better able to get the most out of the fantastic expertise on this forum. I hope that helps some. Good luck!

[Newmodeller96]

8 hours ago, Glob-Ally said:

Hi Henry, I’m also a relative newbie (you can see my own thread a page or so further down this board) and so other people are far better qualified than me to comment on your space. But your thread title jumped out at me! Mainly because I can empathise! That’s exactly how I felt a couple of months back. In case it helps the way I broke through feeling overwhelmed was to focus less on the list of features I wanted on my layout and more about how I wanted it to operate. I’ve then been able to work backwards from this in planning. In your posts I don’t think I’ve seen anything about what you think on this front. Will it just be you operating or with others? Do you want to set things rolling and then sit back and watch? Or be actively involved in driving/signalling/shunting? Does it matter to you if something doesn’t look prototypical? Do you mind seeing the same train repeatedly or do you want things to move on and off scene? Do you want a sense of trains going places? Even how long at a time do you want to operate for in one go will be relevant to how small a gap you’re willing to squeeze in to! Based on my own experience I think if you’re able to add a bit on these questions you’ll be better able to get the most out of the fantastic expertise on this forum. I hope that helps some. Good luck!

Thank you,  this has been a great help.

[Newmodeller96]

Ok so I think I have cracked what I want on the layout and where I want it. All it took was actually sitting in the space and a visualising it. 
 

so I am thinking of a 4 car EMU depot with 2 main lines next to it.

 

the top of the layout will have a TMD  and then on the other side of the U shape will be a small branch line terminus. The 2 lines next to the EMU will hopefully go of scene to a helix and under the board to a fiddle yard. 
 

would be great to hear what people think. 
 

thanks

Henry

[Chimer]

Well ..... a few things that leap into my mind .....

 

 

The tracks in the terminus are currently too close together to fit platforms between them (easy to fix).

 

A train arriving in the far right track at the terminus cannot then depart and cross to the correct (inner) line.  That needs another crossover which steals space you might not have.  I've scribbled the link needed, but to achieve it will need a major fiddle with the pointwork.  It might be simpler to make the line to this terminus single track.

 

Similarly, a loco leaving the TMD has to run wrong line until it reaches the next crossover.  Perhaps better accessed as per another scribble?

 

Where's this helix going to go?  Presumably starting "south" of the crossover where you've written "through track"?  That's going to put a big circle of track at the bottom of the plan (another scribble) and it's got to have 70mm of clearance to disappear under the terminus.  So you probably need the right hand board set higher than the left hand one, and try to lose the height round the curve at the top of the plan (and down the left hand side if you shift the TMD access - it'll still be steep).  And access to the tracks at the bottom of the plan is going to be made more difficult.

 

Finally, of course, I've already said (as have others) that that operating well isn't fit for purpose (even without the helix).  But it is your railway .....

 

And I really do wish you luck 

[Newmodeller96]

a few more tweaks to the layout have come up with this this. The writing is just me making ideas about scenery.

 

I know people say the well in the middle is too small but I’m not going to be operating from there just for access.
 

Any comments would be greatly appreciated!

 

H

[Zomboid]

You won't get 4 roads with trains on into the EMU shed like that. Stick to 3 and it'll fit.

 

Where do trains actually go? And I doubt the loco yard would have a facing point in the main line like that. A trailing point with the sidings kicking back would feel more likely.

[The Stationmaster]

I'm trying to work out how this latest plan would operate and I can see some problems.  While trains can arrive and and depart from any platform at the terminus. I can't see how the other end would work.  Trains can arrive on either line but unless I'm misunderstanding the scale they can only depart towards the terminus from one of those lines.  So effectively one of the lines is of very iimited use and the only way round that would be to add a new trailing crossover near the facing crossover.

 

But you are still going to have very constrained operation - have you thought that through?  it's not only about deciding what sort of railway you want as I posted back on 25 October but you need to think just as carefully about how you intend to operate it.  And in the case of this plan I can see some frustration setting in once you have built it and are trying to run trains.  Obviously it does depend very much on what you, and only you, want but do think carefully an bout what a layout will offer in the hopefully continuing attraction of running trains. 

[DCB]

The layout has some issues,  the Stationmaster' s post highlights the operational issues or lack of operating potential but the layout does not make best use of the space.

Set track is a waste of space on a narrow layout. I use it for curves but use streamline track spacing or less other wise saving   1/2" per track. It looks better and quickly adds up.

 I don't see any value in the space between track and baseboard edge . I just have a hardwood panel projecting between 13mm and 25mm above track level at the layout edge with track right up to it, 99% of the time you see the track side of it as you operate.  My controls are on a shelf below the layout. 

The TMD is a bit inaccessible I would put i around the end of the layout and move the mainline to the right a bit.

A connection so trains can arrive and depart simultaneously would be useful.

The real problem is the Siding side where trains can only arrive and depart from one road.  to me it just does not work as a concept.  I would do a rethink, especially operating well width wise, 

[JDW]

Looking at the plans, my question is "where do trains go?" If a helix is the desired solution, I'd be looking at moving the main lines to the back of the board - starting from where the curved red line is on the plan above, I'd have them cut across to the very rear and pass behid the EMU shed, descending alongside it down to the start of a helix. 

Alternatively, move the EMU shed to the front and have a couple of hidden sidings behind the EMU shed (accessible from the open end and over a low backscene immediately behind the shed if needed)

I'd be tempted to keep the stub at the bottom and use that area for the loco depot, coming off the outside of the curve via a trailing crossover so a loco could run from the station, in to a headhunt roughly where the "C" of Car Park is, then reverse down into the shed on the bottom stub board. That would mean the main line curves could move further towards the right, giving a slightly longer run and also make the depot more viewable rather than hidden at the back.

[Newmodeller96]

6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I'm trying to work out how this latest plan would operate and I can see some problems.  While trains can arrive and and depart from any platform at the terminus. I can't see how the other end would work.  Trains can arrive on either line but unless I'm misunderstanding the scale they can only depart towards the terminus from one of those lines.  So effectively one of the lines is of very iimited use and the only way round that would be to add a new trailing crossover near the facing crossover.

 

But you are still going to have very constrained operation - have you thought that through?  it's not only about deciding what sort of railway you want as I posted back on 25 October but you need to think just as carefully about how you intend to operate it.  And in the case of this plan I can see some frustration setting in once you have built it and are trying to run trains.  Obviously it does depend very much on what you, and only you, want but do think carefully an bout what a layout will offer in the hopefully continuing attraction of running trains. 

 

2 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

The layout has some issues,  the Stationmaster' s post highlights the operational issues or lack of operating potential but the layout does not make best use of the space.

Set track is a waste of space on a narrow layout. I use it for curves but use streamline track spacing or less other wise saving   1/2" per track. It looks better and quickly adds up.

 I don't see any value in the space between track and baseboard edge . I just have a hardwood panel projecting between 13mm and 25mm above track level at the layout edge with track right up to it, 99% of the time you see the track side of it as you operate.  My controls are on a shelf below the layout. 

The TMD is a bit inaccessible I would put i around the end of the layout and move the mainline to the right a bit.

A connection so trains can arrive and depart simultaneously would be useful.

The real problem is the Siding side where trains can only arrive and depart from one road.  to me it just does not work as a concept.  I would do a rethink, especially operating well width wise, 

Thank you for these. they have kind of confused me further but I will look onto them more and see what I come up with. I do get what you mean about the value of the spaces in red and removing them could give me more space in the central well. I think I might also look at what @JDW has mentioned as I was hoping for a helix off the end of the layout to a lower storage / fiddle yard and this could solve my ideas about that. In terms of operational use of the layout is something that I can enjoy as I will mostly be operating alone but have enough variability to the layout that as you say I don'y get bored too easily.