3D Printed Pre-Grouping Wagons 4mm-7mm

[woko]

3 hours ago, JCL said:

Looking good there!  

Thank you sir, hows the Mono X going?

[woko]

23 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

What did you base the GN brake van on?   The well-known photo and the D & S kit are both of the prototype which had the verandah door at the extreme end.  All the other, production, vans, had it against the cabin partition.  I had more than one D & S kit, so I altered one:

 

 

 

Those are lovely models sir cracking job! And yes I believe you are right mine is based off the prototype now looking into it further, i shall swap the doors round, as it be an easy fix, im just finishing a later GNR 4 wheel brake that has the duckets and the door against the cabin, so can swap the parts over! I have to fix the bogies so they work better also!

 

Thanks I hope to sell a few kits to interested folks in the new year! 

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[woko]

Series of GNR Brakes 

 

Corrected 8 wheel GNR Brake with door moved to next to the cabin @jwealleans

4 Wheel GNR Brake

Tranship GNR Brake

 

[JCL]

Do you sleep?

[woko]

4 hours ago, JCL said:

Do you sleep?

Indeed it certainly looks that way chap, but once you get into it, these wagons, they really don't take that long to build, plus they share quite few parts with each other, once you have modelled a few of them in a particular railway company! I have a couple more I want to knock up for the GNR, though waiting for my paints to arrive so I can get cracking on painting them, which Is the most enjoyable part of the process I have found  

[jwealleans]

Looks like a part of the D & S catalogue.  I like that Tranship brake - I wonder how long they lasted after 1923?

[woko]

On 10/12/2020 at 09:36, jwealleans said:

Looks like a part of the D & S catalogue.  I like that Tranship brake - I wonder how long they lasted after 1923?

According to my LNER Wagons Volume 1 they where none in service by 1940, so whether they all got rebuilt or scrapped no idea chap sadly! But they are certainly a cool looking Brake, I had to eye some of the details on this as I didn't have the drawings just the sizes, but I noticed the duckets are wider/deeper than the 4 Wheel GNR Brake with Duckets, and 6 inches shorter! 

 

[thegreenhowards]

On 11/12/2020 at 14:30, woko said:

According to my LNER Wagons Volume 1 they where none in service by 1940, so whether they all got rebuilt or scrapped no idea chap sadly! But they are certainly a cool looking Brake, I had to eye some of the details on this as I didn't have the drawings just the sizes, but I noticed the duckets are wider/deeper than the 4 Wheel GNR Brake with Duckets, and 6 inches shorter! 

 

I’m loving the look of that Tranship Brake. Any idea what they were used for?

[woko]

8 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I’m loving the look of that Tranship Brake. Any idea what they were used for?

Morning Andy, yeah they are quite unusual the Tranship Brakes, according to my LNER Wagons book they where used for Passenger, most likely Mixed Passenger/Freight trains and Non Passenger stock, but cracking looking vans, I will print one for the new O gauge project  

Edited December 15, 2020 by woko

[thegreenhowards]

1 hour ago, woko said:

Morning Andy, yeah they are quite unusual the Tranship Brakes, according to my LNER Wagons book they where used for Passenger, most likely Mixed Passenger/Freight trains and Non Passenger stock, but cracking looking vans, I will print one for the new O gauge project  

I look forward to ‘playing’ with that!

[woko]

Adding a GN/GLC 19 foot Long Covered Goods Van and a 10 ton 6 plank open to the wagon mix!

 

[43078shildoncountydurham]

On 09/12/2020 at 20:36, woko said:

Series of GNR Brakes 

 

Corrected 8 wheel GNR Brake with door moved to next to the cabin @jwealleans

4 Wheel GNR Brake

Tranship GNR Brake

 

Are the 8 wheeled vans in 00 gauge available to buy? 
 

Regards

 

Craig

[woko]

On 19/12/2020 at 13:12, 43078shildoncountydurham said:

Are the 8 wheeled vans in 00 gauge available to buy? 
 

Regards

 

Craig

Hopefully once i get the bogies running smoothly enough

[woko]

Almost finished with the transfers on this little lot! Was quite a learning curve using methfix, And messing up several crucial transfers in the process, and a lot of profanities, im slowly getting the hang of it now! Whilst not perfect by a long way, they certainly start to add a finishing touch to these LBSC wagons! Hope to be better with the GNR stock next!

 

[BlueLightning]

I hope Rob doesn't mind me posting this here, but tonight my weekly YouTube livestream will be having a look at his Stroudley goods brake, my first impressions of it are very positive, so if anyone wants to have a look at it going together, then feel free to join me at 9pm (UK)

 

Gary

 

 

[woko]

2 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

I hope Rob doesn't mind me posting this here, but tonight my weekly YouTube livestream will be having a look at his Stroudley goods brake, my first impressions of it are very positive, so if anyone wants to have a look at it going together, then feel free to join me at 9pm (UK)

 

Gary

 

 

Looking forward to it dude  

[woko]

Despite the freezing cold I have managed to crack out a couple more 4mm GNR Wagon prints hoping to paint and number these up in the next few weeks after I have finished the print run! Made a few improvements adding in bracing to prevent some sagging of the walls of the  vans and the brakes! These wagons are just dry fitted and primed in red oxide. 6 plank, 4 plank, Lard and Butter Van, 16ft outside frame van

 

[woko]

Had some time today so thought I would crack on with some SECR Cattle wagons as I have always quite liked the look of these wagons, especially the Special Cattle Wagon with Stockmans compartment, though I doubt it was very comfortable in there!  

Wagons SECR Medium cattle wagon. SECR Large cattle wagon, and Special Cattle Wagon with Stockmans compartment.

 

[Nick Holliday]

20 hours ago, woko said:

Despite the freezing cold I have managed to crack out a couple more 4mm GNR Wagon prints hoping to paint and number these up in the next few weeks after I have finished the print run! Made a few improvements adding in bracing to prevent some sagging of the walls of the  vans and the brakes! These wagons are just dry fitted and primed in red oxide. 6 plank, 4 plank, Lard and Butter Van, 16ft outside frame van

 

Sorry to rain on your parade of excellent models, but have you got the brake gear on the four plank correct? The left-hand brake lever was introduced in the 1880's as the result of a Board of Trade injunction that all wagons should have brakes operable from both sides.  The commonest solution was to add a left-hand lever and a cross rod connected to the normal pair of brakes on the other side. The GNR did treat some in this rather knee-jerk way, but while most other companies seemed to have bitten the bullet and either provided sets of brake gear on both side, or introduced a mechanism to reverse the movement, such as the lift-link or the Morton devices, to keep both handles on the right.  The GNR seems to have embraced the left-handed approach more than most, and came up with an unusual scheme, in which single brake blocks were applied to diagonally opposite wheels. Hence the right-handed lever side had a brake block on the left hand wheel, rather as per normal, whilst the left-handed side also had the block on the left hand wheel, almost hidden behind the brake lever, with a central cross rod connecting the pair of brakes. I couldn't find any picture in Tatlow that showed the arrangement on the model. By 1904 the Board of Trade had discovered that the left-hand lever was potentially dangerous, and it was banned, so more orthodox arrangements had to be made, although it did seem to take quite a while before they were eradicated.

Is it possible to move the brake blocks more towards the wheels, as on this one at least it seems to be outside the axleguards?

[woko]

52 minutes ago, Nick Holliday said:

Sorry to rain on your parade of excellent models, but have you got the brake gear on the four plank correct? The left-hand brake lever was introduced in the 1880's as the result of a Board of Trade injunction that all wagons should have brakes operable from both sides.  The commonest solution was to add a left-hand lever and a cross rod connected to the normal pair of brakes on the other side. The GNR did treat some in this rather knee-jerk way, but while most other companies seemed to have bitten the bullet and either provided sets of brake gear on both side, or introduced a mechanism to reverse the movement, such as the lift-link or the Morton devices, to keep both handles on the right.  The GNR seems to have embraced the left-handed approach more than most, and came up with an unusual scheme, in which single brake blocks were applied to diagonally opposite wheels. Hence the right-handed lever side had a brake block on the left hand wheel, rather as per normal, whilst the left-handed side also had the block on the left hand wheel, almost hidden behind the brake lever, with a central cross rod connecting the pair of brakes. I couldn't find any picture in Tatlow that showed the arrangement on the model. By 1904 the Board of Trade had discovered that the left-hand lever was potentially dangerous, and it was banned, so more orthodox arrangements had to be made, although it did seem to take quite a while before they were eradicated.

Is it possible to move the brake blocks more towards the wheels, as on this one at least it seems to be outside the axleguards?

 

Hi Nick, its never raining on my parade sir when someone points out useful information on here, and is always welcome chap, which is one of the reasons I post this stuff up to get the much appreciated feedback. 

You are of course correct in that the brake gear in the latter years of the GNR was definitely on the right, but the earlier examples I took from Tatlows LNER Wagons Vol 1 page 18-19 show 2 examples of these 4 planks with the brake gear to the left, which I found most unusual! And as you say mostly this had been removed to the right side by the 20s! However the beauty of modeling this stuff on the computer is Its a simple swap, I could easily flip this, I also noticed my axle covers are actually the wrong way round to, so I can go in and amend the brake shoes by pushing these back a bit also, so I may do a run of right handed brake 4 plank wagons, as I need to print some more of these! 

 

Cheers Rob

Edited December 31, 2020 by woko

[wainwright1]

16 hours ago, woko said:

Had some time today so thought I would crack on with some SECR Cattle wagons as I have always quite liked the look of these wagons, especially the Special Cattle Wagon with Stockmans compartment, though I doubt it was very comfortable in there!  

Wagons SECR Medium cattle wagon. SECR Large cattle wagon, and Special Cattle Wagon with Stockmans compartment.

 

Hi Woko.

 

I haver built a couple of the SECR cattle wagons from the D & S kits.

These were built in batches and various details changed from one batch to the next, such as the brake gear and the plank gapping at the bottom and in the drop doors, horizontal/vertical etc. I also back dated one of the kits to have the earlier wooden stanchions on the ends of the wagons as opposed to the angle iron ones as cast on.

The one on the right hand end is the Maunsell/Lynes one.

All the best

Ray

[woko]

52 minutes ago, wainwright1 said:

Hi Woko.

 

I haver built a couple of the SECR cattle wagons from the D & S kits.

These were built in batches and various details changed from one batch to the next, such as the brake gear and the plank gapping at the bottom and in the drop doors, horizontal/vertical etc. I also back dated one of the kits to have the earlier wooden stanchions on the ends of the wagons as opposed to the angle iron ones as cast on.

 

The one on the right hand end is the Maunsell/Lynes one.

All the best

Ray

 

Hello Ray, thanks for sharing, those look great chap, I especially love the attention to detail with the variations you have here, im toying with the idea whether to make one of those later SECR cattle wagons you have with the solid doors and tiny port holes, I think they look fantastic!  And also super helpful when I come to paint these ones up as I noticed there seems to be a couple of wagon liveries for the SECR, but you have them in the dark grey which was the most common? 

 

For some bizarre reason I have enjoyed making the cattle wagons over any of the other wagons! I think perhaps it was as I was growing up there weren't many  rtr examples available, and they where my favourite wagon then, along with tank wagons, which I also think looked great behind a heavy goods loco

 

cheers

 

Rob

 

[Nick Holliday]

21 hours ago, woko said:

 

Hi Nick, its never raining on my parade sir when someone points out useful information on here, and is always welcome chap, which is one of the reasons I post this stuff up to get the much appreciated feedback. 

You are of course correct in that the brake gear in the latter years of the GNR was definitely on the right, but the earlier examples I took from Tatlow's LNER Wagons Vol 1 page 18-19 show 2 examples of these 4 planks with the brake gear to the left, which I found most unusual! And as you say mostly this had been removed to the right side by the 20s! However the beauty of modelling this stuff on the computer is Its a simple swap, I could easily flip this, I also noticed my axle covers are actually the wrong way round to, so I can go in and amend the brake shoes by pushing these back a bit also, so I may do a run of right handed brake 4 plank wagons, as I need to print some more of these! 

 

Cheers Rob

Just in case I may have not explained things as clearly as I should, I've found a couple of excellent drawings by Barry Lane which featured in Noel Coates book on Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway Wagons, which I have marked up to show the relevant bits.

This shows the arrangement, as also adopted by the Great Northern, with both levers at the same end of the wagon, and brake blocks diagonally opposite.  This was introduced to meet the 1886 edict that wagon brakes had to be operable from both sides.  Noel Coates describes the arrangement as "lopsided, cramped or awkward (call it what you will) idiosyncratic idea." A sentiment I can only agree with, although the GNR obviously thought the same way as the L&YR, presumably there was some complication arising from the simplistic addition of an extra lever to a single sided, double brake block arrangement.

During 1903 the laws changed again, and all brake levers had now to be at the right-hand end of the wagon, and capable of acting on at least two wheels. (Noel's words). The Morton system was adopted by the L&YR (Morton was an L&YR employee) but many other companies used it, including the GNR, although other measures, such as the lifting link, were available.

It is difficult to say how quickly the revisions were made, the railway companies were fairly notorious regarding the way the dragged their feet in implementing many of the changes demanded by the Board of Trade, often taking things to the wire, or ignoring them completely! The left-handed lever makes an interesting difference to the look of a wagon or the train that it is running in, and also makes a good talking point for those savvy enough to spot the difference, so I would be tempted to have a sprinkling of them, unless your operating period is post the Great War, when it might be stretching things a bit far.

 

[wainwright1]

19 hours ago, woko said:

 

Hello Ray, thanks for sharing, those look great chap, I especially love the attention to detail with the variations you have here, im toying with the idea whether to make one of those later SECR cattle wagons you have with the solid doors and tiny port holes, I think they look fantastic!  And also super helpful when I come to paint these ones up as I noticed there seems to be a couple of wagon liveries for the SECR, but you have them in the dark grey which was the most common? 

 

For some bizarre reason I have enjoyed making the cattle wagons over any of the other wagons! I think perhaps it was as I was growing up there weren't many  rtr examples available, and they where my favourite wagon then, along with tank wagons, which I also think looked great behind a heavy goods loco

 

cheers

 

Rob

 

Hi Rob.

 

With regard to the wagon grey colour, they used a lead grey colour in Wainwright days and a darker grey in the Maunsell period. The darker grey is available from Precision, but neither they (or anybody else) does the lead grey. I sampled various shades and opted to use Precision's roof grey for Mk1 coaches, crimson ones only, not the standard one.

 

I have been looking at your prints with interest and would be interested in ordering a few if you make them available.

Any chance you might do the converted ex LBS&CR cattle wagon modified to vans as used on the Isle of Wight. I think that there were four of them and one is preserved in Train Story at Haven Street.

 

All the best

Edited January 1, 2021 by wainwright1
Missed word out

[woko]

9 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

Just in case I may have not explained things as clearly as I should, I've found a couple of excellent drawings by Barry Lane which featured in Noel Coates book on Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway Wagons, which I have marked up to show the relevant bits.

 

This shows the arrangement, as also adopted by the Great Northern, with both levers at the same end of the wagon, and brake blocks diagonally opposite.  This was introduced to meet the 1886 edict that wagon brakes had to be operable from both sides.  Noel Coates describes the arrangement as "lopsided, cramped or awkward (call it what you will) idiosyncratic idea." A sentiment I can only agree with, although the GNR obviously thought the same way as the L&YR, presumably there was some complication arising from the simplistic addition of an extra lever to a single sided, double brake block arrangement.

During 1903 the laws changed again, and all brake levers had now to be at the right-hand end of the wagon, and capable of acting on at least two wheels. (Noel's words). The Morton system was adopted by the L&YR (Morton was an L&YR employee) but many other companies used it, including the GNR, although other measures, such as the lifting link, were available.

 

It is difficult to say how quickly the revisions were made, the railway companies were fairly notorious regarding the way the dragged their feet in implementing many of the changes demanded by the Board of Trade, often taking things to the wire, or ignoring them completely! The left-handed lever makes an interesting difference to the look of a wagon or the train that it is running in, and also makes a good talking point for those savvy enough to spot the difference, so I would be tempted to have a sprinkling of them, unless your operating period is post the Great War, when it might be stretching things a bit far.

 

 

Happy New Year Nick

 

This is fantastic, I wasn’t completely sure what you meant regarding your first message, but now I completely understand, thank you kindly for sharing these illustrations they are perfect.

incidentally I have the small thin paperback book of Noal Coates on the L&Y are the actual volumes worth acquiring?

 

I notice a lot of the drawings in the paperback book omit a lot of these under frame drawings, rather like the Midland wagons volume 1 & 2 which is frustrating as I find this detail invaluable when modelling these early wagons.

 

many thanks for this though Nick much appreciated sir