The future - ideas for the next generation

[Railpassion]

After reading a rather scathing piece in yesterday's Sunday Times about the demise of Ian Allen's Waterloo shop, my thoughts turned to the future. So many of the clientele at exhibitions have grey hair and whilst there are younger people the hobby is now dominated by the retired. They have the money, the expertise and the time. We are all heading for the grave but will the hobby go with us and become extinct? 

 

Having lived in France and Switzerland I was always struck by the number of families and men aged up to 40 at exhibitions and would say the average age was around 30. The Swiss do have a very positive view of their railway and interest is more mainstream with many female enthusiasts too.  In Britain many parts of the country are no longer near a railway and even fewer places see a freight train so there is less to see and spark people's interest. 

The model railway challenge on Channel 5 has helped bring some fun to the hobby and I hope it's begun to change perceptions. 

 

 

Can the hobby be revived for the young to help sustain its future? 

My cousin who is now 9 has a lego Eurostar layout with remote control operation and extensive track. It's so easy to operate and has no worries over live rails etc.  

Scaletrix has track but Mario has just released a toy car hybrid which is interactive and runs without track.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/technology-54663569

 

Is it time someone adapted this or created something similar for railways by using remote control and small cameras? 

Advantages would include: 

Dead rails - no need for clean track etc by using rechargeable batteries 

Simple scenery with digitally created enhanced landscapes

Story and  game interaction

Creating a buzz around railways 

Flexible layout plans and designs which are quick to build.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Phil Parker]

Is there a problem? This article in the Observer suggests not.

[Railpassion]

I'm reading the wrong paper! 

[Steven B]

I started going to exhibitions in the 1980s when I was still at primary school. I remember being surounded by a few other family groups and plenty of old men with grey hair.

 

Fast forward 30+ years and I now take my own daughter to local show (well, in a normal year!) and we're still surounded by a few other family groups and plenty of old men with grey hair.

 

What's wrong with accepting it's a hobby for older people? Do Bridge Clubs have similar fears about not being able to attract younger card players? Do Games Workshop store managers worry about attracting more over 50s into their shops?

 

Steven B.

[Big James]

I really don’t know. But I do know a lot of my friends have started modelling. Not just railways there’s been an explosion of warhammer to. I also have my end to end layout set up in the living room and it always gets commented on when people come round. I’ve even let some of my trusted friends operate it with supervision. 

Big James

[D9020 Nimbus]

Back when Ben Jones was editor of Model Rail, the two "Model Rail Live" events at Barrow Hill seemed to attract a fair proportion of younger people—the third, more conventional, at Newark less so. But that was 6 years or more ago…

[The Johnster]

Old ground; I’ve been reading letters to magazines and online posts like this for over half a century, and my hair is not completely grey yet...

 

The hobby, and the ‘trade’, are a little hidebound in their attitude to new tech, though.  DCC has been in the game for over 40 years, during which time DC has stagnated completely, and we still drive our locos with motors supplied from the track via pickup or split current collection and driving through gears to reduce the motor rpm to a reasonable driving wheel rpm.  
 

It is well established practice, dating back to the first 2-rail electric train sets of the late 40s, and it works, very well indeed with current Chinese built RTR, but this should not mean that there should not be serious thought of improvement for the future.  New tech and new materials are appearing all the time but we have not made any fundamental changes since the first DCC appeared.  2 rail supply through the track via pickups to a motor driving through reduction gears works despite itself, and cannot be further improved; the cost of volume production of precision engineered locos that run well  is increasing exponentially and new methods will have to be adopted if a mass market for such models is to be preserved. 
 

Two areas in which quantum advances have been made since that time are NFC and battery technology and efficiency.  It has been my view for many years that a power supply on board a loco is not only more realistic, as it’s what real locos have (ok, you can argue that electrics don’t), it is more reliable as current collection via pickups is no longer needed; the loco will happily

continue to run off the track altogether. 

 

As long as the battery lasts, and despite the improvements we are not there yet.  Back in the 80s I built an on board 9v battery powered Rovex Black Princess chassis controlled with servos and potentiometers driven by track power by a conventional controller.  It was quantum out of loading gauge, we are talking Breitspurbahn here, only went one way without derailing, and kept falling over, but it proved a concept to my satisfaction.  If it could have been developed to be small enough, it would have meant that locos would have needed to be driven ‘properly’, realistically, as the effectiveness of the braking depended on the servo gearing; it took about 10 seconds to bring to a stop from full 9v, and would set off backwards if you overcooked it. 
 

Given the standard of normal exhibition driving, this could have been a problem...

 

Something like this in principle, but with electronic on board control circuitry and smartphone NFC, perhaps improving the efficiency of the motor and drive system by using direct drive slow running miniature coreless motors whose drive shafts are the actual axles (direct drive hi-fi turntables were doing this in the 80s), and improving traction with wheels and track made entirely of non conducting material, might be a way to go.  
 

The motors might not develop much power, but there is no reason that every axle on a 100 wagon train cannot be a motor; already, the majority of passenger stock is in fixed sets suitable for this approach. Running, on track as dirty as you like and made of anything you like, would be absolutely reliable and virtually perfect, and truly smooth starts and stops could be made by the gear-less, almost frictionless, locos. As there is more room inside the loco bodies, bigger batteries can be incorporated as well as speakers and such.  
 

Batteries will be rechargeable via NFC beneath the track, perhaps it could even be the track; toothbrushes have been doing this for years.  The system requires the most efficient possible rechargeable batteries working with very small motors that can develop useful torque at very low speeds; for decent slow control with a steam outline loco with big driving wheels like a Gresley Pacific they need to be capable of single figure rpms.
 

If the batteries are continually recharged by NFC from the track, running life is much improved; they will discharge when the motors are under load and drawing more current.  While the train is running at a constant speed, the battery discharges less and may hold or even pick up a little charge when the train is on the overrun, slowing down or maintaining speed down a gradient.  The charge is ‘trickle’ but the overall effect of a continual charge will be to enhance battery performance, while still being able to run trains for a shorter time ‘off grid’. 
 

For newcomers to the fun, especially (but not exclusively) children, reliability is important and they will be put off the hobby if their trains don’t work or keep derailing.  The system I propose is well suited to the toy market, already using on board battery and remote control, but would I contend it is beneficial to the grown up ‘serious’ part of the hobby as well. 
 

Edited October 26, 2020 by The Johnster

[DK123GWR]

14 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Something like this in principle, but with electronic on board control circuitry and smartphone NFC, perhaps improving the efficiency of the motor and drive system by using direct drive slow running miniature coreless motors whose drive shafts are the actual axles (direct drive hi-fi turntables were doing this in the 80s), and improving traction with wheels and track made entirely of non conducting material, might be a way to go.  

And it would also reduce issues caused by careless track weathering/ballasting getting the track dirty.

[Vistisen]

I discovered that as a father of three boys, building a model railway together was a brilliant way of easing the movement from them being children to teens. Over several years we spent a lot of time together on this project. Now their interest is more sporadic (and most of them have left home) but even so when visiting it is not unknown for them to give a hand on some project. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Vistisen

[Mike Buckner]

 

What's  NFC ?

[GlenPudzeoch]

If x number of young people are introduced to model railways by the traditional train set way, whether it was a Hornby Dublo in the 1960s, a Airfix GMR in the 1980s or Thomas The Tank Engine by Hornby or Bachmann/ Harry Potter in recent years then y will fall by the wayside but the seed will have been sown in z.

 

They may be interested in other things as many do, but in ten, twenty or more years time there is something to come back to.   Not every modeller who starts/restarts in their 40s, 50s or 60s started with a train set : many did.

 

As long as newcomers /returnees are not discouraged then we are doing something right.

 

Media featuring positive stories and shows in the last few years are nothing but good for the hobby.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Johnster]

2 hours ago, Mike Buckner said:

 

What's  NFC ?

Near Field Communication, such as Bluetooth, basically line of sight.  

Edited October 27, 2020 by The Johnster

[rob D2]

Once I’m dead , I no longer care if the hobby continues ...

 

maybe Switzerland has younger enthusiasts becuase although all modern trains seem dull as hell, at least theirs run through nice scenery 

[Zomboid]

On 26/10/2020 at 17:46, The Johnster said:

 It has been my view for many years that a power supply on board a loco is not only more realistic, as it’s what real locos have (ok, you can argue that electrics don’t

I'd like to see the argument that electric locos and units *do* have their source on board...

 

Though I'm fully in agreement that remotely controlled trains with on board battery (with since kind of wireless charging standard) is the way things ought to head. I already use my phone to play trains, so getting rid of the pesky need to connect wires to the tracks is about the only hurdle left to getting the technology into the 21st century. I reckon we'll get there some time in the 22nd...

[The Johnster]

It’ll be long after my time, fo’ sho’, but I reckon it’ll come sooner than C22; about 20 years away I’d guess.  
 

Electric locos and mu trains are powered in much the same way as our models, and likewise depend on a reliable current pickup method, be it a pantograph or 3rd/4th rail skate.  But there is a fundamental difference; the control is on board the train, not at the power station or between it and the track/3rd/4th rail/OHLE.  There is solar power to consider, and of course if it's a dull Sunday afternoon and you’re locked down, you can consider that all power sources have their origin in the sun.  
 

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by The Johnster

[Derekstuart]

In 2018 I went to a bowling club, to lay flowers at the memorial for my late Grandmother who helped found the club in the 1930s.

I was really quite surprised to see the huge age range playing- from young children, maybe at primary school, to the retired and some who had been retired for some years. This is in Scotland and so I'm not sure how the culture translates over the rest of UK. But I would observe that French Boules games are likewise multi-generational.

My *perception* is that this move to encourage younger people in to the sport/ hobby is a relatively new- but quite successful- move.

 

I would like to offer the idea that perhaps it's the sense of skill/ achievement that 'hooked' them. MR needs a lot of skill. but most would start with a box of set track and just watch trains go round and round in circles. There needs to be some way of encouraging them to make the first step- even if the box set manufacturers had simple cut out and fold stations/ tunnels, perhaps (age dependent).

[HonestTom]

I don't know that technology is going to attract people to the hobby who would otherwise have no interest. I'm not saying that advances in technology are a bad thing, but I feel that unless you're already interested in railways, you're not going to take the plunge. At the end of the day, all you're really doing is finding new ways to run a train up and down a track.

 

I think Hornby's approach with their all-in-one hampers is a good one - aim at families. Mum and Dad can take care of the more difficult and delicate work and the kids get to help out where they can. I think, based on the kids I know, that there are plenty of young children willing to get creative and make models.

 

Based on this, I think the way to go is entry-level models that young kids can actually make themselves. The sort of thing that kids can take pride in having made themselves, but not so difficult that they get frustrated, or have to constantly ask for help. There are already a few models out there like that - a lot of Peco's lineside accessories, for instance. Dapol's kits for LMS coaches also nearly fit the bill, albeit with a few too many fiddly bits for small children.

Edited November 4, 2020 by HonestTom

[Steamport Southport]

4 hours ago, HonestTom said:

.Based on this, I think the way to go is entry-level models that young kids can actually make themselves. The sort of thing that kids can take pride in having made themselves, but not so difficult that they get frustrated, or have to constantly ask for help. There are already a few models out there like that - a lot of Peco's lineside accessories, for instance. Dapol's kits for LMS coaches also nearly fit the bill, albeit with a few too many fiddly bits for small children.

 

Depends on what you class as "small children".

 

I would consider the Dapol coach kits far simpler than some of the kits in the Airfix Starter range. ISTR there was only a few parts that needed gluing such as the vents, but I replaced those anyway.

 

For example this is aimed at eight year olds.

 

https://www.airfix.com/uk-en/shop/starter-sets-and-gift-sets/cromwell-mkiv-tank-starter-set-1-76.html

 

When I was eight I would think that was a bit basic as I was quite skilled at building them with virtually no supervision. Not surprisingly I moved swiftly on to the Airfix rolling stock kits and then things like Ratio kits as tanks and planes just weren't doing it for me.

 

There was the more complicated kits such as those by Tamiya, but they were far too expensive for pocket money. Whereas a Ratio kit was about the same price as Airfix. A tank to put on the shelf or a wagon? Easy choice for me.

 

I'm not saying they were fantastically made. But when you talk to people who want to make things and they haven't even built an Airfix Spitfire you kind of scream inside.

 

There's even a video showing you how to make it.

 

https://www.airfix.com/uk-en/shop/starter-sets-and-gift-sets/supermarine-spitfire-mkia-starter-set-1-72.html

 

I know it's not model railways, but great for learning relevant skills.

 

 

Jason