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Unknown (European?) locomotives


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Hi All

 

Two more mysteries from my collection:

 

No.23 looks like an 0-6-0T in some dockside location - France/ Austria?  See  the number 5?14 on the smokebox.

 

No.27 is a 2-6-0T (but a well tank?) with a German or Austrian looking  train. Seems to have a name on the  side of the smokebox?434076036_unknown23.jpg.24853730bc1b59329419bb50e4c7df93.jpg

 

Any ideas as to  what they are/ where they are/  when the photos might have been taken (many in this batch seem to be pre-war)?

unknown 27 2.jpg

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27 looks similar to an ELNA 2, a series of 1'C built around 1941 by Henschel.

 

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELNA

 

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELNA_2

 

Translation

 

"ELNA 2 is the name of a series of tank locomotives that were built according to the ELNA standards. The ELNA 2 have a 1'C axis arrangement. They are designed for light route service. With their output of 368 kW, they reach a top speed of 50 km / h.

At least 37 locomotives of this type have been built for various private railways, most of them in the superheated steam version. Most of the locomotives of this type (five) were on the Liegnitz-Rawitscher Railway. In 1949, 16 locomotives were taken over by the DR and mainly included in the numbering scheme as class 91.62.

An ELNA 2 locomotive is on display at the German Society for Railway History (DGEG). It is the former locomotive 146 of the Butzbach-Licher Eisenbahn (BLE), which was built by Henschel in 1941 and was in operation from 1960 to 1964 as the RRE 146 on the Reinheim-Reichelsheimer Eisenbahn."

 

Brian

Edited by brigo
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The width of the river visible in #23 rather suggests the Scheldt in the vicinity of Antwerpen, probably downstream rather than upstream and likely to be in the area which has changed totally today with the modern development of the port.

 

 

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15 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Yes! Look at this http://www.pfttsp.be/index.php/fr/46-sans-categorie/900-un-siecle-de-vapeur-tome-4  The photo appears to show SNCB serie 58, which I can't find details of on-line, but would bet was a batch of ex-ROD Baldwins.

It is indeed a NMBS (Belgian railways) type 58 from 1917, ex-american army:

http://www.bfoto.be/docu/hlv/58.php

Regards

Fred

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From what I can understand, they strictly weren't ex-US Army, but ex-British Army (Railway Operating Division), although it gets confusing because, unlike the 2ft gauge railways where there were demarked areas of operation, the standard gauge military operations during WW1 seem in places to have involved direct collaboration between units from the two armies.

 

ROD was suppled with three classes of Baldwin 'switchers' for SG: these 0-6-0T; a rather chubby type of 0-4-0ST; and, some 2-6-2ST that looked straight out of a logging railway. These were meant to provide a better fleet than the miscellaneous old crocks that WD gathered-up from industry and main-line at the start of WW1.

 

 

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i actually read through the book for the first time last night for this thread.

 

If we assume that the smokebox door handle is hiding a number for example 5X14  it would fit the 58 class as the number 5814 which was

 

Baldwin w/n 46674

ROD 672

Etat Belge 4574

5814 renumbered 1/10/1931

58.014 SNCB from 1/1/1946

withdrawn 25/3/1963 Mons.

 

the booklet was published in 2014, and at time of publishing they dont know if any of the 58 class were sold to industry after withdrawing in the 60's

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The closest I can find for 27 is loco No 141 of the Hohenzollerischen Landesbahn in Baden-Württemberg. This is the only photo I've found of an ELNA 2 with a number on the side of the smokebox (top right in the first group of pictures)

 

https://www.eisenbahnlehrpfad.de/lokomotiven/

 

" Locomotive 141, a triple-coupled standard locomotive (axle arrangement 1 C) built according to the guidelines of the Engerer Lokomotiv-Norm-Kommission (ELNA), was acquired in 1929 from the bankruptcy estate of Hohenzollern AG Düsseldorf. It was quite economical and was only scrapped in 1965 after the main inspection deadline. "

 

If you do a Google image search for "Henschel ELNA 2" it produces a number of photos and drawings, particularly of the preserved example BLE 146 of the DGEG.

There's further information on ELNA locos here

 

https://www.dampflokomotivarchiv.de/index.php?nav=1402971&lang=1

 

Brian

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On 27/10/2020 at 16:34, The Johnster said:

Austria has no coast.  Just saying...

Neither does Switzerland but they have a navy (actually the Lakes Flotilla) and a Swiss Merchant Marine.  They certainly have docks, and one would presume that Austria does too - on the lakes ;-)

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On 27/10/2020 at 17:55, carlwebus said:

Hi All

 

Two more mysteries from my collection:

 

No.23 looks like an 0-6-0T in some dockside location - France/ Austria?  See  the number 5?14 on the smokebox.

 

No.27 is a 2-6-0T (but a well tank?) with a German or Austrian looking  train. Seems to have a name on the  side of the smokebox?434076036_unknown23.jpg.24853730bc1b59329419bb50e4c7df93.jpg

 

Any ideas as to  what they are/ where they are/  when the photos might have been taken (many in this batch seem to be pre-war)?

unknown 27 2.jpg

 

Looking at this photo, I'd suggest it's a mogul tank. I also have a vague idea that I've seen an HO model of one, somewhere, and in the last couple of years.  Of course, I could be wrong. 

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23) is 0-6-0 and 27) 2-6-0

 

For clarity, just as many of these 0-6-0 side tanks went straight into industrial use after the first war as those that went into mainline ownership and some of them worked in the UK, the 5814 is just my guess based on the number visible

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Hi Guys

 

You never cease to amaze me!

 

Definitive answers for both locos!  Wonderful!

 

In my  defence I only suggested France / Austria because that's   where many other photos in this lot were taken.

 

Thanks again.

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Late to this thread, I can confirm the identities as SNCB 5814 (history as given by Sir Douglas) and an ELNA 2 type locomotive, yet to be identified specifically.

 

Regarding 5814 (photo 23), there were 38 of these locomotives acquired by Etat Belge, and were initially allocated primary to Antwerp South and Brussels Scaerbeek.  Given the backdrop, Antwerp seems the most likely and a date after 1931 (when reclassification and renumbering took place) can be ascribed.

 

Somewhere I have a monograph on the ELNA locomotives - which I'm trying to find in the chaos that constitutes a library.  In the meantime, here's a photo of another preserved example, no. 158 from Mariembourg (CFV3V) - also in Belgium - from 1997. (Henschel 24917/1940, it worked in German industry before being saved for preservation, initially in the Netherlands).

 

1023154819__K64P9728.jpg.aab4502d40bd96894354bb3bf35d5a1d.jpg

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