6V53 clayliner question. Large logo class 50?

[andy stroud]

I am interested to know if anyone has any proof that this train was ever worked by a large logo class 50. I believe the vacuum braked trains ran until 1982 and given that there were large logo 50s around from 1981, it should have been possible. I have quite a large book collection and together with internet searches, I cannot seem to find a picture. Plenty of pictures of LL 50s on clayhoods, but that is not the same. I have recently completed a rake of these wagons, pictured below and I was wondering if my LL class 50 could be employed on the train occasionally.

Many thanks  in advance,

Andrew

 

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by andy stroud

[JohnH]

In John Vaughan's 'An Illustrated History of West Country China Clay Trains' book, Plate 53 shows Large Logo 50012 Benbow hauling 3 brake vans followed by a long rake of what looks like sheeted OWV's (with maybe a few UCV's?) into St Blazey yard.

 

Part of the caption reads as follows :-

 

"Just before the advent of the 'Tiger' 80 tonne wagons in 1982, No 50012 Benbow brings the wagons for what was once called the 'Clayliner' train into St. Blazey Yard"

Edited October 29, 2020 by JohnH

[TravisM]

I’m pretty sure that there would have been a cross over period with the Class 52’s finishing in 1977 and the un-refurbished Class 50’s taking over.  The large logo Class 50’s started to appear in 1980/81 after they had been through refurbishment and the clayhood’s disappearing in 1982.

 

I would check through which Class 50’s had gone through refurbishment prior to 1982, so you don’t model one that was done afterwards.  Also I think the first three or four were released in standard BR Blue, I know that 50017 “Royal Oak”, which I think was the second one done and my favourite Class 50 was released in standard BR Blue.

Edited October 29, 2020 by jools1959

[D826]

After the Westerns had gone, my memory is that the clay liner was a regular Class 46 and 47  turn.  Not to say it was never a LL50, but I don't remember it myself.  50s (unrefurbed), defo hauled the Milks to 1980.

 

Best regards

 

Matt W

[JohnH]

1 hour ago, jools1959 said:

The large logo Class 50’s started to appear in 1980/81 after they had been through refurbishment and the clayhood’s disappearing in 1982.

 

Clay hoods were not used (as far as I'm aware) on the 'Clayliner' service. This train usually consisted of various 5 plank wagons (including some very old)  OWV's and also later on, some UCV's.  Occasionally an OHV was pressed into service. The clay load was protected by a simple sheet or tarpaulin but without the support bar as used on the 'actual' UCV/OOV Clay hoods used on local traffic within Cornwall and Devon.

 

Hood fitted UCV/OOV's lasted in local traffic until 1987. 

[keefer]

According to Wikipedia:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_50 , the first 6 refurbished locos (starting with 50006 in 1979) came out in blue. The first Large Logo one was 50023 in 1980 and the last was 50014 'in the latter half of 1983'.

Others will no doubt be able to supply more detail as to when individual locos were released (and which 6 were in blue)

Edited October 29, 2020 by keefer

[Rivercider]

I have got quite a few books with WR/freight content (too many Mrs Rivercider might say), but can't see a large logo 50 on 6V53. I have seen photos of blue 50s on 6V53.

In 1980/81/82 it is quite possible a large logo 50 worked 6V53, most likely coming on at Exeter Riverside where the train was booked to detach and attach, I can't find one after a quick search of Flickr though.

 

cheers

[JohnH]

As I mentioned in my first post , Large Logo 50012 Benbow was definitely working 'clayliner' type wagons - however, the presence of three(!) brake vans at the front of the consist may suggest it was a trip working from one or more of the dries, destined for St Blazey. These wagons would then be added to other OWV/UCV's for the trip to the potteries on 6V53.

 

As D826 says in his post, most of the traction for 6V53 appears to have been class 46's or 47's although it wouldn't be impossible that a LL 50 worked from St Blazey to Exeter as Rivercider mentioned. Slightly unwell 50's were often used on local trip work around St Blazey so there's no reason why one couldn't be used on 6V53 for part of the journey to get the 'dodgy' 50 back to Laira for attention.

[andy stroud]

I would like to say thankyou for all the replies. I do find this train quite interesting. It's fairly distinctive and yet the formation can still vary slightly by the addition of a few different wagons, especially after Exeter, it seems.  For example a few coal wagons, tankers or presflows could often be seen in the formation. Sometimes at the front and sometimes seemingly random within the formation. I have even seen a picture of a blue and grey mark 1 included.

 

Most of my modelling time during  the summer has been spent assembling thirty various open wooden wagons of 10ft  wheelbase, some of which had corrugated ends and generally with roller bearings. Of course the 'clayoods' differed in that they were all end tippers of 9ft wheelbase.

 

I do have the book with LL  50 012 on the clay train with the brake vans and I had wondered if that counted and it is indeed a very interesting picture but it isn't really evidence of the 6V53 itself being hauled by a LL 50. I dont know why I am so 'concerned' as I have plenty of other suitable locos that I can use, including a recently aquired unrefurbished class 50, yet I still find it interesting. Many thanks once again for the replies. Perhaps somebody will unearth something in due course.

[Davexoc]

5 hours ago, keefer said:

According to Wikipedia:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_50 , the first 6 refurbished locos (starting with 50006 in 1979) came out in blue. The first Large Logo one was 50023 in 1980 and the last was 50014 'in the latter half of 1983'.

Others will no doubt be able to supply more detail as to when individual locos were released (and which 6 were in blue)

 

I believe the others were 001, 013, 017, 019, and 047, of which at least 001 and 017 were released without headlights, but a plate covering the hole. The first few also didn't have the outer sandbox fillers plated over initially.

 

Still no LL 50 on the clayliner....

[DY444]

8 hours ago, Davexoc said:

 

I believe the others were 001, 013, 017, 019, and 047, of which at least 001 and 017 were released without headlights, but a plate covering the hole. The first few also didn't have the outer sandbox fillers plated over initially.

 

Still no LL 50 on the clayliner....

 

All of the first 6 had the plate over the headlight hole.

[Pete the Elaner]

8 hours ago, Davexoc said:

 

I believe the others were 001, 013, 017, 019, and 047, of which at least 001 and 017 were released without headlights, but a plate covering the hole. The first few also didn't have the outer sandbox fillers plated over initially.

 

Still no LL 50 on the clayliner....

 

That's interesting. I always believed the Lima refurb bodyshell was wrong in this respect.

[Phil Bullock]

11 hours ago, andy stroud said:

I would like to say thankyou for all the replies. I do find this train quite interesting. It's fairly distinctive and yet the formation can still vary slightly by the addition of a few different wagons, especially after Exeter, it seems.  For example a few coal wagons, tankers or presflows could often be seen in the formation. Sometimes at the front and sometimes seemingly random within the formation. I have even seen a picture of a blue and grey mark 1 included.

 

Most of my modelling time during  the summer has been spent assembling thirty various open wooden wagons of 10ft  wheelbase, some of which had corrugated ends and generally with roller bearings. Of course the 'clayoods' differed in that they were all end tippers of 9ft wheelbase.

 

I do have the book with LL  50 012 on the clay train with the brake vans and I had wondered if that counted and it is indeed a very interesting picture but it isn't really evidence of the 6V53 itself being hauled by a LL 50. I dont know why I am so 'concerned' as I have plenty of other suitable locos that I can use, including a recently aquired unrefurbished class 50, yet I still find it interesting. Many thanks once again for the replies. Perhaps somebody will unearth something in due course.

Stick with a Western Andy.... you know it makes sense!!! 

 

 

[Flood]

1 hour ago, DY444 said:

 

All of the first 6 had the plate over the headlight hole.

Certainly 6 and 17 had the plate where the headlight later was when in traffic. No. 1 and 19 are shown at Doncaster with plated holes but gained their headlights very soon after. I'm not sure about 13 but no. 47 was definitely released from Doncaster with headlights.

 

See this photo from Stuart Jones

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by Flood

[keefer]

Noticed this on the Class 50 thread, 50013 still in plain blue in December '83 - after all the refurbs had been completed

 

[DY444]

8 hours ago, Flood said:

Certainly 6 and 17 had the plate where the headlight later was when in traffic. No. 1 and 19 are shown at Doncaster with plated holes but gained their headlights very soon after. I'm not sure about 13 but no. 47 was definitely released from Doncaster with headlights.

 

See this photo from Stuart Jones

 

 

Oops that's very odd .  I've got pictures of ex works Class 50s both annotated as being 50047.  One at Plymouth with the headlight and one at Newton Abbot with the plate.  Suspiciously you can't see the number or name of the latter.  I'm thinking that maybe it was 50017 and I wrote down the wrong number at the time.  I also think maybe the passage of time has played more havoc with my memory than I thought 

Edited October 30, 2020 by DY444

[The Pilotman]

I’ve had a trawl through all my books and couldn’t find any images of large logo 50s on the clayliner; the closest I got was one of the first refurbished locos still in blue. On a slight tangent I did discover, thanks to the Cornwall Railway Society website, that the very last milk train out of St.Erth was hauled by a refurbished 50; 50017, albeit still in blue. 

[andy stroud]

20 minutes ago, Western Aviator said:

I’ve had a trawl through all my books and couldn’t find any images of large logo 50s on the clayliner; the closest I got was one of the first refurbished locos still in blue. On a slight tangent I did discover, thanks to the Cornwall Railway Society website, that the very last milk train out of St.Erth was hauled by a refurbished 50; 50017, albeit still in blue. 

Thankyou for taking the trouble to have a look. Also, interesting to hear of the refurbished 50 on the milks.

[andy stroud]

11 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Stick with a Western Andy.... you know it makes sense!!! 

 

 

Not a bad shout, Phil. A scruffy Western at the front of that train really looks the business. I think a peak looks good too. I am working on a two tone green 47 with full yellow and tops numbers. Very scruffy!

[Phil Bullock]

4 hours ago, andy stroud said:

Not a bad shout, Phil. A scruffy Western at the front of that train really looks the business. I think a peak looks good too. I am working on a two tone green 47 with full yellow and tops numbers. Very scruffy!

All relevant power Andy. Got bounced by all of them when we used to turn out for a Wizzo on 6V06 in 76....

[andy stroud]

This morning I found  a picture of 6v53 at Ashchurch taken August 1979, hauled by 25 101, which I thought was rather interesting.

[Chris M]

Interesting topic, thanks for raising it.

[Chris M]

My attempt at this train in N gauge. 

OMG some bigger has pinched the camping coaches! And the footbridge has been demolished a few years too early.

 

 

I hope they have something more power waiting at Riverside.

 

the layout is still very much under construction.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Chris M

[w124bob]

I find it ironic that the refurbished Clayhoods stayed within the west country and yet clay traffic to to Stoke and even the far north (Corpach?) was dispatched in almost anything with 5 planks . I get that the 9 ft wheelbase would have max speed implications, but why the hood versus non hood particularly as BR went to the trouble of converting many of the ancient 10ft wb fleet to roller bearings. anyone know the reason ?

Edited November 3, 2020 by w124bob

[Covkid]

I am going to stick my neck out and say yes, I think so.

The clayliner empties ran in from Stoke to Bescot, via the Grand junction lines and Bescot north end into the storage sidings, mostly with an AC loco.  The loads came up from Cornwall, Devon and Gloucester, over the Dudley line and into the same yard. Both locos ran round and dropped onto each other's trains then departed from whence they came. 

 

In my minds eye, I can see an view of a large logo 50 standing at the top end of the storage sidings waiting to back up onto the empties. At that time I worked in Bescot TOPS which was located on the Upside half way down the yard.  There was a fire escape door which people used to get out into the yard, and if you looked out in a particular direction you could glimpse a view of the north end of the storage.

 

The diesel that came up on 6M32 and went back on 6V53 was generally a WR type 4 mostly a 46 or 45, sometimes a Brush, but definitely occasionally a class 50. I must have been on early shift and distinctively remember it was a 50 this particular day and was probably a fairly clean large logo example. Unfortunately though, that is all I remember.